Exercise

Discussion in 'Exercise' started by martin86, Aug 19, 2012.

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  1. martin86

    martin86 New Member

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    Does anyone participate in any level of exercise, wether it be low, moderate or high intensity?
    what sort of exercise/activities do you do to keep active?
    How do you incorporate peats ideas to fit round your chosen activities/workouts (pre and post workout meals, and do to take anything during exercise)

    Just looking for people to share any tips and ideas regarding fitness and exercise?
     
  2. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    martin86, welcome to the forum! :welcome

    Just recently I came across some really awesome info from East West Healing. It's definitely worth taking the time to check it out. Its about nutrient timing for workouts and how to minimize stress hormones, maximize muscle building, etc etc etc. They are really dialed in over at East West healing and know their stuff.

    I will also attach the text that goes along with the video below. This is a must watch!
    [hr][/hr]

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsGE5Mlhv9M[/youtube]

    Simply put, nutrient timing means being mindful of when to eat, rather than just what to eat. Its premise is to support optimal performance during a training session, provide all that is needed for muscle growth, exploit glycogen replenishment after activity, and follow a diet that promotes growth and repair around the clock. Nutrient timing is based on data supporting variances in hormonal release throughout the day and in response to exercise (see "Endocrinology 101" on page 43). Ivy and Portman have divided the day into three phases to illustrate nutrient timing.

    The nutrient timing cycle begins with the workout: the energy phase. This phase is marked by the athlete's need for sufficient energy to allow muscle contraction. Ivy and Portman emphasize the importance of nutrient delivery and of sparing carbohydrate and protein, limiting immune suppression, minimizing muscle damage and setting the stage for faster postworkout recovery. Glucose, derived from glycogen (its stored form in liver and muscle) or blood glucose, is an essential fuel source for activity. Reliance on glucose increases directly with training intensity (Wildman & Miller 2004). Glucose depletion is indicated by a decrease in time to fatigue during activity—much to an athlete's dismay (Robergs & Roberts 1997). The need for carbohydrate ingestion during activity depends on the intensity, duration and type of exercise, in addition to the pre-exercise carbohydrate status and foods consumed, and the degree of training (Wildman & Miller 2004).

    Ingestion of protein during the energy phase may be advantageous when provided in addition to carbohydrate. Ivy et al. investigated the use of carbohydrate-protein supplementation during endurance activity (2003). Their findings revealed a benefit to including carbohydrate and protein, over just carbohydrate.

    Ivy and Portman summarize the characteristics and goals of this phase as (1) a shift from catabolism to anabolism; (2) enhancement of muscle blood flow; (3) replenishment of glycogen stores; (4) repair and growth of tissue; and (5) reduction of muscle damage and bolstering of the immune system (2004). Immediately following exercise, a myriad of factors create an environment for glycogen repletion and muscle tissue growth and repair. Among these factors is the enhanced activity of anabolic hormones (see "Endocrinology 101"), including insulin, testosterone, growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1).

    After exercise, the body is primed to replenish its glycogen stores, and protein repair and synthesis are required (Levenhagen et al. 2001). Insulin sensitivity is improved because of an increase in glucose transport into the cells via a specific glucose carrier (GLUT-4), and the activity of the enzyme glycogen synthase is increased to promote glycogen synthesis (Richter et al. 1982). Ingesting carbohydrate after exercise increases the amount and rate of glycogen storage (Zawadzki et al. 1992). A combination of protein and carbohydrate replenishes muscle glycogen more rapidly than does carbohydrate alone (Ivy et al. 2002). Levenhagen et al. showed that early postexercise ingestion of protein and carbohydrate not only replenished muscle glycogen but also enhanced accrual ofwhole-body and leg protein, suggesting an exercise-induced effect by insulin (2001).

    The rate of glycogen repletion may also be enhanced by increasing the carbohydrate content.
     
  3. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Here is a really great article that Cliff McCrary just posted.

    "Strategies for athletes following a Ray Peat inspired diet"
    viewtopic.php?f=38&t=304
     
  4. narouz

    narouz Member

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    In concur: rare discussion/information!
    Fascinating.
     
  5. Artifex Bellator

    Artifex Bellator Member

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    Following this line of thinking, such as wanting to reduce the stress response of exercise, what should an athlete eat before the workout. A glass of orange juice? Fruit and protein? I teach mixed martial arts and a girl that was attending one of the classes passed out during the class. I asked what she had prior to my class and of course the answer predictably -"nothing". Earlier in the day, she had some pasta and that was all!

    Many fighters are pushing their bodies to the limit. The typical nonsense about low-carb blah blah blah is generally what most are eating to cut weight. The sport itself in highly inflammatory, getting hit constantly, dealing with pain and managing injuries must spike adrenaline. Anyway, what would someone eat, practically speaking, before working out to reduce the stress impact? And what style of exercise would spare the most muscle during workout. Such as, high intensity, short interval bursts? Fighting is done in rounds, so intervals are a natural part of the fighting environment. And no one fights balls out for five minutes anyway, they are managing the fight in much smaller increments with short intense bursts of super high intensity being the norm. maybe training in these short bursts and stopping before mouth breathing starts? Any suggestions with references would be greatly appreciated! thanks!
     
  6. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    Hi and Welcome to the forum! :welcome2 :welcome2 :welcome :welcome2

    All of the above is best. Digestion is always quickest when you combine more than one macronutrient.

    I personally have OJ and coconut water mixed with a few teaspoons of sugar and a couple of table spoons of gelatin. I always down a 1/4 teaspoon of salt or bicarbonate of soda too.

    Sugar, Protein, Salt, Magnesium, potassium, many other nutrients.

    Thats what I drink before and during a workout. That keeps me feeling almost completely stress free during the training.

    Straight after training I have a large glass of milk with sugar in it and often a tablespoon of coconut oil. Another bit of salt too as that really keeps the stress response suppressed.

    One study showed that giving bicarbonate of soda to athletes in the death valley race significantly reduced their stress levels during the race. Googling it should bring up the study. I use bicarb several times a day. Bag breathing has the same effect.

    Intervals are much better than steady long endurance. Get your students to do bag breathing between rounds. That will help A LOT with reducing the stress hormones. Plenty of OJ + gelatin drinks too.

    Stopping the round before mouth breathing starts is always a good idea but I think in a lot of sports (Including yours) its more about mitigating the stress rather than stopping it altogether.

    Most sports are not healthy. Its a case of accepting that its not healthy and then just balancing minimising of the damaging effects with maximising the skill/attributes the athlete needs to perform his/her sport well.
     
  7. Artifex Bellator

    Artifex Bellator Member

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    KB-thanks, good ideas! However I am tasked to make some suggestions that are practical. What is a Ray Peat source of protein for the Energy Phase that you would recommend? While my cupboards are stocked with an ample supple of Great Lakes gelatin, most training in my dojo will not have access. And some are intolerant of milk...so...what do they eat? I am certainly not going to recommend any commercial shakes or drinks!

    I am thinking a glass of OJ with...? How about a banana with OJ and a ? Need some suggestions-thanks!
     
  8. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    Thats a shame about the Gelatin. I personally feel that is the best protein source for training. OJ with gelatin is a winner combination. I use gelatin as a replacement for whey (I made the switch when I discovered how bad whey was). Could you pre-mix the OJ and gelatin in large quantities and leave it in bottles in a fridge for the athletes.

    Another option is sugared Milk for those who tolerate it. If the athletes can tolerate it you get good protein and sugar. I know of several people who use milk with sugar as their pre, during and post workout drink. If an athlete is gassed this may make them feel unwell though.

    I have not tried this BUT two egg yolks blended into a large glass of OJ would give 6gm of protein, the same amount as 1 tablespoon of great lakes gelatin, a whole load of additional nutrients and I don't imagine that you would taste much of the yolks. Might be worth experimenting with. If its horrible, apologies. That may not be very practical either.

    Bananas unless they are brown and translucent are very starchy + packed full of serotonin so not ideal for training.

    I will have a think to see if I can think of anything else.
     
  9. sctb

    sctb Member

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    I perform a brief bout of high intensity static contraction exercise daily: two muscle groups at around 60-90s each. My goal is to increase muscular insulin sensitivity and trigger protein synthesis, so I do this about 1-2h before my main meal of the day. A large glass of milk and one of OJ immediately follow the exercise.

    My thought with the very brief exercise is to minimize systemic stress, as well as to spend my time on other things! I have no idea whether or not this is actually the case, though.

    - Scott
     
  10. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    Since this is the exercise topic.
    After years of (high) Cardio for about 5to6days a week about an hour.....I stopped exercising for a couple of years,then began aain in July bc I kind of have gotten a twisted relationship between food/quantities/macro's/scared of getting (too) fat vs. exercising which only has gotten worse the last couple of years,since being delved into this food,Paleo etc. journey. I decided to join the gym again a couple of months ago but basically fell into my 'old destructive unhealthy foods/binges vs. exercise'pattern but to an even bigger extreme.

    Though I'm kinda doing/trying Starting Strenghth type stuff......I basically feel like I'm just effin' around a lot,just wingin'it with some additional exercise that I see online(for instance a certain exercise out of the entire round from Bodyrock.tv or such ,that I feel like doing etc.) Not having the 'idea' that I really have a steady workout regimen that I can built upon,basically I for some reason 'feel like I'm never doing enough' let alone the fact that I can't sit my ass down anymore and enjoy a movie or something(I guess bc I'm used to feeling tired&achy for so many previous years) and also bc of lack of inspiration.....and kind of frustration,bc for years now,no matter what I do I never seem to really progress in armstrength for some reason.

    So,is there someone who can give/point me towards a solid exercise program? (without all the difficult mumbo jumbo sports/exercise terms)
     
  11. sctb

    sctb Member

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    I would recommend this book. It's a science-based approach focused on health,
    and it seems like potentially one of the more Peat-compatible forms of exercise.

    Best of luck!

    - Scott
     
  12. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Starting strength is too much volume when trying to heal. I would go with Wendlers 5/3/1 program. With bodyweight exercises for the accessories. Get in and out in under 30 minutes, try even for 20 minutes. With warm up and all I am done in 30 minutes.

    I will attach a calculator, on the green boxes where is says 100 put in the weight you want to train at. Start extremely low. If you think you want to train at 100, then I suggest start at 50 or 60. Better to undershoot then overshoot. Drop your ego at this point. Better to heal then put yourself farther into the hole.

    I usually do 2 bodyweight accessories, however, now that I am healing, I only do 1, and I only work out one day a week right now, hope to get it up to two days eventually. I will list the accessories I do, with the top one being the one I pick if I only do one. I use to do 3 sets of each accessory, I only do 2 now. Sometimes even 1.

    Overhead Press
    Chin ups
    Elevated Push Ups

    Deadlift
    Pull ups
    Hanging Leg raises

    Bench Press
    Chin Ups
    Push Ups

    Squats
    Hanging Leg raises
    Pistol Squats
    (Sometimes I throw is grip work on this day)

    Train smart, dont go to exhaustion or anywhere near it. Get yourself some orange juice and gelatin(can even throw in some salt) before during and after your session. Some guys do milk. My biggest meal is always after working out. I like to call it, the feast. :mrgreen:

    Oh and your 4th cycle you will notice a huge drop in weight of lifts. Thats your "deload" cycle. Use it, dont skip it. Thats your "take it easy" cycle. Most deload cycles I don't even lift and let my body fully recoup.
     

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  13. narouz

    narouz Member

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    You know, I tried that for a while.
    Interesting method: super-slow resistance training.

    But I don't think it could be considered Peatian
    because it aims to put your muscles and respiration
    into exhaustion.
    You push weights super slowly until the point that the muscle gives out,
    and you definitely are breathing super hard.
    Not Peatian, IMO.
     
  14. Ray-Z

    Ray-Z Member

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    Narouz:

    My workout philosophy has been similar to BBS as you have described it -- relatively few different exercises, low reps, slow movement, heavy weights (in relation to my capacity), exercise to failure. I agree with you that exercising to failure feels stressful and unPeat. The paleo camp will shout "hormesis!" but I no longer trust them. (I don't mean to bash anyone here, just the paleos.)

    Can you think of a Peaty standard to replace "exercise to failure" in deciding when you're done with a set? For example, instead of exercising to failure, you could "exercise to stress," i.e. end the set as soon as you notice labored breathing, or you could just choose a number of reps and a weight that you know will not cause severe stress. I'm not sure what an appropriate standard would be...
     
  15. narouz

    narouz Member

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    Ray-Z,
    It may possibly be Peatian to "exercise to failure."
    I'm not sure.
    I wouldn't rule it out.

    But if you watch videos of the Super Slow techniques
    Dr. McGuff uses...
    ...I've tried that and,
    if you do it "right"...man, you're breathing hard and it slams you.
    He himself (McGuff) says you shouldn't do it more than once or twice per week,
    because (in his view) it puts a lot of stress on your adrenals.

    You're DEEP into the territory of mouth-breathing.
     
  16. sctb

    sctb Member

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    That's a good point, narouz.

    I personally don't do exercise quite like BBS, and I try to get my muscle
    contraction and fatigue in with absolute minimum systemic stress (which
    includes my breathing). If I'm doing dynamic exercise I don't go to failure,
    but I've found that static contractions can be quite effective in inducing
    muscle fatigue without the heavy breathing.

    Regards,

    - Scott
     
  17. gabriel79

    gabriel79 Member

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    Hi,
    . For exercise I focus on complex movements, like press, squat, snatch, rows. I use moderate low reps, 5 to 8 max; never ever going to failure. The weight I chose it so that for that movement at 6th rep my speed of contraction noticeably slows down. When that happens, it's the last rep of the set. I usually go for 5 sets cycling exercises, but it also depends on time. I aim for 45 minutes work out. So, if a workout feels hard I have to rest more and end up doing less sets. Eg of one workout day: snatch, bench press, weighted chin up, DB row. I rest what my body needs between exercises and aim for 5 cycles. I emphasize explosion and concentric part, the negative controlled but not emphasized at all. The eccentric part of the movement is very stressful and produces a lot of lactic acid. Also going to failure is extremely stressful. I stay away from machines since they don't allow much explosion and speed.
    You should feel OK after work out, not exhausted. Maybe a little soreness a couple of hours later; but no extreme soreness on following days. If so, you trained too much.
    I don't do any "cardio" training, but I do move around pretty much with daily chores.
     
  18. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    I got the BBS eBook a while ago from someone,but it's too much scientific sportslanguage talk for me to follow it all. Just as most of you guys' descriptions here.
    I really need noob-language;).....and like I said I really feel like I'm never doing enough and just 'eat'.
     
  19. kettlebell

    kettlebell Member

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    +1 for Charlies suggestion of Wendler's 5-3-1.

    It is the approach that I have seen the most people make massive strength gains on over time without "Burning out"

    It is an excellent routine.

    I currently do 5X5 with all compound exercises. Will switch back to wendler at somepoint
     
  20. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    I had the best strength gains on Wendlers 5-3-1. It just freaking works, plain and simple.
     
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