Everyone Should Recognize High Endotoxin States

[Broken man]

I've been strictly Peating since 2012. I don't have a high PUFA tissue saturation anymore. Tests are fairly good, as well as pulse and body temp and sleep, and digestion, etc. I don't think it has much to do with my gut barrier. Starch and spices will cause endotoxin and serotonin issues regardless of gut barrier. Digestion is always fine until I eat starches and/or spices.

I dont think so because mostly tryptophan can increase your serotonin levels and you will have endotoxin most of the time. Glad you are peating, I think you can tell all the people that are healthy even they are smoking, doing all the "bad stuff" that the endotoxin should cause them issues with their macdonald diet . Strict? So you are also painting? Destroy your TLR4 receptor and you will have no problems even with tons of endotoxin.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I am using oyster shell calcium to increase calcium. It is almost as good as eggshell, and ultra cheap and no excipients and I don't have to mess with eggshells.

 

[Dolomite]

The whole cows milk I drink is pasteurized but not ultra pasteurized. Lactose free milk and a brand called Fairlife are ultrapasteurized. And the Fairlife also has more protein. The Fairlife actually made me nauseated when I tried it. I don't think it is endotoxin but hard to digest.

 

[ecstatichamster]

At the moment cheese is fine for me but not milk which was giving me heartburn. I eat raw milk cow and sheep cheese mostly. Without enzymes added.

 

[schultz]

As far as Orange Juice..... yes, OJ is great. I am drinking it myself. But it would be impractical to use OJ if you are interested in the higer gram size doses that replecate what animals make, and that Vitamin C doctors have had great success giving to their patients.

I was sort of talking about OJ in regards to endotoxin I suppose, though I didn't really make that clear, but it is what the thread is about anyway. OJ has been shown to be protective in this regard, even with the lower amount of vitamin C it would give compared to a straight supplement, probably because it has other things in it which help (narigenin, hesperitin, possibly fructose, other things I'm sure). I'm thinking of this study.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I was sort of talking about OJ in regards to endotoxin I suppose, though I didn't really make that clear, but it is what the thread is about anyway. OJ has been shown to be protective in this regard, even with the lower amount of vitamin C it would give compared to a straight supplement, probably because it has other things in it which help (narigenin, hesperitin, possibly fructose, other things I'm sure). I'm thinking of this study.

That's true, OJ has proven effective in regards to endotoxin, and that is a great study. However, supplemental vitamin C has also been studied in regards to endotoxin, and it has shown to be effective as well. If you are dealing with more serious endotoxin issues, OJ may simply not provide enough relief, but supplemental Vitamin C could-

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/955b/7699974417c55ea3e6020754413793e71350.pdf

Vitamin C supplementation attenuates the increases in circulating cortisol, adrenaline and anti-inflammatory polypeptides following ultramarathon r... - PubMed - NCBI

L-Ascorbate Attenuates the Endotoxin-Induced Production of Inflammatory Mediators by Inhibiting MAPK Activation and NF-κB Translocation in Cortical Neurons/Glia Cocultures

 

[ecstatichamster]

It is possible that all of the attribution of vitamin C to colds has to do with endotoxins

 

[Waremu]

I dont think so because mostly tryptophan can increase your serotonin levels and you will have endotoxin most of the time. Glad you are peating, I think you can tell all the people that are healthy even they are smoking, doing all the "bad stuff" that the endotoxin should cause them issues with their macdonald diet . Strict? So you are also painting? Destroy your TLR4 receptor and you will have no problems even with tons of endotoxin.

Even when you’re eating healthy, you’re exposed to stress and need to keep up a good defense against stress hormones, which may help weaken the gut barrier as well. Even in someone who is eating low PUFA, it is likely if they are exposed to a lot of cortisol and what not due to factors like not keeping blood sugar maintained, etc., then they’ll be exposed to more serotonin than they have to be exposed to. And I don’t think it’s like most of the tyrotophan you eat god to just producing serotonin right away. Your body does have basic needs for tryptophan that do not include serotonin and I think it is likely that the tryptophan you eat will first or, for the most part, likely go to those requirements or needs first and that once those needs are met you are more likely to risk tryptophan converting into serotonin more.

For example, you still need tryptophan and sulfur amino acids in general for proper glutathione production/metabolism and other requirements. It’s not like the smallest amount of tryptophan you consume will cause a cascade of serotonin immediately. Amino acids also compete.

I think if someone is eating enough to support metabolism/blood sugar and doing the other stuff that is conducive to healthy metabolism support, then they will be making much less serotonin than someone who isn’t. The sweet spot is getting just enough tryptophan and other amino acids in amounts needed for important metabolic requirements to support healthy metabolism but then not go to the point of excess where it is more likely to support stress. Of course, the metabolic state you’re in will help with that as well.

And of course, yes, endotoxin will always be a problem, which is why even healthier people have to try to limit it as much as they can.

Wish I had the time to paint. It probably would benefit me greatly.

 

[tankasnowgod]

It is possible that all of the attribution of vitamin C to colds has to do with endotoxins

I don't know if it's the only factor, but it probably is a major factor. Dr. Cathcart found that C could either eliminate many colds and diseases in most cases, and seriously reduce the symptoms in other cases. He also found that it was effective against allergies. All probably have some endotoxin component-

 

[magnesiumania]

Wrong. Vitamin C is Ascorbic Acid, full stop. It does not have "bioflavonoids," although I have no doubt that many fruits contain both ascorbic acid and bioflavanoids.

Ascorbic Acid is never a Pro-Oxidant. When it is oxidized to dehydroascorbic acid, then yes, it is a Pro Oxidant, but that's a different substance. And that dehyroascorbic acid can then be reduced back into ascorbic acid.

More important is the net effect. Supplemental Vitamin C improves the NAD+/NADH ratio of the organism, which is the opposite of what so called Pro Oxidants do.

I will not say you're definitly wrong but ive come across studies that compare ascorbic acid to vitamin C from food sources and thye did show that also ascorbate prevent copper from entering the cells and influence binding to enzymes inside the cell (to SOD etc). And i do think the cofactors of what i refer to as C work together in syntergy and taking only one component in isolation may disrupt metabolic processes.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I will not say you're definitly wrong but ive come across studies that compare ascorbic acid to vitamin C from food sources and thye did show that also ascorbate prevent copper from entering the cells and influence binding to enzymes inside the cell (to SOD etc). And i do think the cofactors of what i refer to as C work together in syntergy and taking only one component in isolation may disrupt metabolic processes.

Please post those studies if you come across them again, I'd like to take a look. I'm sure C works along with co-factors found in fruits, but the other point is that all animals on the planet produce their own vitamin C (except humans, primates, guniea pigs and the african fruit bat), and they don't produce the co-factors that are found in fruit.

 

[tca300]

Stopping dairy solved 99% of what I thought was endotoxin issues. I guess everyone is different.

May I ask what symptoms you were having from Cow milk/dairy? Thank you!

 

[Blossom]

May I ask what symptoms you were having from Cow milk/dairy? Thank you!

Sure.
My fingertips were swollen and my finger prints were gone. I have to scan them a lot at work so it was getting very annoying. Amazonic posted an old study showing that the finger issues indicate continued gut inflammation in treated celiac disease patients. I knew something was causing chronic inflammation and dairy seemed the most obvious culprit since I’ve been off gluten for years and have been following Peat for over 5 years. Immediately after stopping most commercial dairy besides very, very small amounts of kalona supernatural brand dairy my fingers went back to normal and my finger prints came back after about 1 month. I think it might be the added vitamins that led to the sensitivity issues. I hope one day to overcome this but I’m not rushing anything yet and just enjoying feeling great.

 

[tca300]

Sure.
My fingertips were swollen and my finger prints were gone. I have to scan them a lot at work so it was getting very annoying. Amazonic posted an old study showing that the finger issues indicate continued gut inflammation in treated celiac disease patients. I knew something was causing chronic inflammation and dairy seemed the most obvious culprit since I’ve been off gluten for years and have been following Peat for over 5 years. Immediately after stopping most commercial dairy besides very, very small amounts of kalona supernatural brand dairy my fingers went back to normal and my finger prints came back after about 1 month. I think it might be the added vitamins that led to the sensitivity issues. I hope one day to overcome this but I’m not rushing anything yet and just enjoying feeling great.

Oh wow! Thanks again!

 

[Cirion]

Were you eating skim, 1%, full fat? RP usually drinks 1%, right?

More I learn the more I think 1% may be the ideal for (most) people. Skim milk is nice because it brings down PUFA to zero, but as you noted, most milk has added fat soluble vitamins, which aren't going to be absorbed at all properly with skim milk (no fat), so 1% would have enough fat to help absorb those vitamins.

I wish I could find skim milk with no added vitamins though.

 

[Blossom]

I wish I could find skim milk with no added vitamins though.

I drank milk with added vitamins for quite awhile before I developed issues. I don’t think everyone will have that problem. It is pretty crazy though that there isn’t an option for milk without added vitamins (besides whole milk) for people who want it. Thanks again government. I think their fortification policies are horrible. If I want extra vitamins I’d prefer to choose for myself.

 

[Waremu]

Were you eating skim, 1%, full fat? RP usually drinks 1%, right?

More I learn the more I think 1% may be the ideal for (most) people. Skim milk is nice because it brings down PUFA to zero, but as you noted, most milk has added fat soluble vitamins, which aren't going to be absorbed at all properly with skim milk (no fat), so 1% would have enough fat to help absorb those vitamins.

I wish I could find skim milk with no added vitamins though.

Maybe try adding hydrogenated coconut oil to skim milk to get the best of both worlds? (Very low PUFA, but just enough virtually PUFA-free coconut oil fat to help with the vat soluble vitamins in the milk).

This is what I am currently doing with my milk. So far, working well. I never reacted badly to the added vitamins, thankfully.

 

[Waremu]

It really is the case that there is no perfect food. All foods have their downfall and I think this is what many would probably be better to remind themselves of, lest they spend their lifetime switching back and forth to different foods. I have spent so many years doing this and just decided to accept that no perfect food exists and that I just have to pick the foods with the least issues. All foods have give and take, but I try to focus on what foods take the least and give the most, in the context of being conducive to a healthy metabolism. I think this is the case with dairy for me. I tried experimenting and doing no dairy during my journey Peating, but always found that I eventually ran into problems down the road because whatever reasons this or that food I perceived to cause me problems, I ran my body down because I either ran into slight deficiencies or just tore my body down because I wasn't giving it the nutrition it needed to cope with the stress, because the foods I cut out often were not replicable, so I was lacking certain nutrients, or the foods I would replace with the ones I cut out took more from me and gave me less.

This is the issue I find myself in with milk. Milk may have some take, but it by fair seems to be the only protein source that takes the least and gives the most. I do okay on gelatin + egg whites, but problem is, those are empty calories with just protein and cannot come near to replacing milk. And this is especially important when you are in the truest 'Peat' sense watching your PUFA calories and want to nutritionally maximize them as much as possible (which milk accomplishes far more than any other protein source). It seems like all the other protein sources, while having a place, perhaps, seem to be very limited in being staples and giving more than they take because people seem to run into more issues with down the road them when they make up a large part of the diet. (meat and too much iron and problematic amino acids, egg whites having the same issue with problematic amino acids, and even when paired with gelatin, still are nutritionally empty unlike dairy; shellfish would be too high in PUFA in very large amounts needed to rely on as a main protein source; and even greek yogurt is very lacking in nutrients compared to milk, etc.)

So the way I look at it is, I have to make milk work for me if it doesn't. Thats how I was when I didn't handle it well, before cleaning out my gut with charcoal, flowers of sulfur, and carrots.

If someone doesn't handle milk, maybe try this protocol that is used to overcome milk intolerance:

WO2000061155A1 - Composition, containing sublimed sulfur, for the treatment of lactose intolerance - Google Patents

Ray recommends a few pinches of the sulfur for a few days. This worked for some, but not for others. For them they had to do the protocol which uses more of the stuff. But there is evidence that suggests lactose intolerance is mainly a gut bacterial issue, and this protocol that is used and seems to have success seems to agree with that idea. Anyway, the link is included above for anyone who want to experiment with it to try to overcome dairy intolerance. It worked well for me.

 

[ecstatichamster]

You are right about foods being a mixed bag. Thank you for the patent. I think I’ll try that.

 

[milk_lover]

It really is the case that there is no perfect food. All foods have their downfall and I think this is what many would probably be better to remind themselves of, lest they spend their lifetime switching back and forth to different foods. I have spent so many years doing this and just decided to accept that no perfect food exists and that I just have to pick the foods with the least issues. All foods have give and take, but I try to focus on what foods take the least and give the most, in the context of being conducive to a healthy metabolism. I think this is the case with dairy for me. I tried experimenting and doing no dairy during my journey Peating, but always found that I eventually ran into problems down the road because whatever reasons this or that food I perceived to cause me problems, I ran my body down because I either ran into slight deficiencies or just tore my body down because I wasn't giving it the nutrition it needed to cope with the stress, because the foods I cut out often were not replicable, so I was lacking certain nutrients, or the foods I would replace with the ones I cut out took more from me and gave me less.

This is the issue I find myself in with milk. Milk may have some take, but it by fair seems to be the only protein source that takes the least and gives the most. I do okay on gelatin + egg whites, but problem is, those are empty calories with just protein and cannot come near to replacing milk. And this is especially important when you are in the truest 'Peat' sense watching your PUFA calories and want to nutritionally maximize them as much as possible (which milk accomplishes far more than any other protein source). It seems like all the other protein sources, while having a place, perhaps, seem to be very limited in being staples and giving more than they take because people seem to run into more issues with down the road them when they make up a large part of the diet. (meat and too much iron and problematic amino acids, egg whites having the same issue with problematic amino acids, and even when paired with gelatin, still are nutritionally empty unlike dairy; shellfish would be too high in PUFA in very large amounts needed to rely on as a main protein source; and even greek yogurt is very lacking in nutrients compared to milk, etc.)

So the way I look at it is, I have to make milk work for me if it doesn't. Thats how I was when I didn't handle it well, before cleaning out my gut with charcoal, flowers of sulfur, and carrots.

If someone doesn't handle milk, maybe try this protocol that is used to overcome milk intolerance:

WO2000061155A1 - Composition, containing sublimed sulfur, for the treatment of lactose intolerance - Google Patents

Ray recommends a few pinches of the sulfur for a few days. This worked for some, but not for others. For them they had to do the protocol which uses more of the stuff. But there is evidence that suggests lactose intolerance is mainly a gut bacterial issue, and this protocol that is used and seems to have success seems to agree with that idea. Anyway, the link is included above for anyone who want to experiment with it to try to overcome dairy intolerance. It worked well for me.

Could taurine also help with the digestion of milk? It has sulfur in it. Maybe that's why I can digest goat milk with no issue. I take a lot of taurine daily, from shrimps, Red Bull, and supplements. I also take charcoal every other day. I noticed in the days I drink OJ, I can't digest milk. Almost all OJ brands bloat me and makes weird bacteria war in my stomach that I can't tolerate milk for at least the next two days. We are a desert country. Maybe our genes haven't evolved to eat oranges. I will look into dates because I think I can tolerate them just fine. Also, we have goats everywhere.