Everyone Should Recognize High Endotoxin States

[Cirion]

If I slip up and have rice at night for example, the next morning I'll wake up feeling like I got heavily sedated, heavy bags under my eyes etc...

Sugar is the only thing that doesn't do that to me.

That's all it took for me to be convinced of RP being right about starch. You're right, I think many people are in denial about starch. Maybe some can truly handle it, but I think the amount of people who can handle it are very very small. Because of this, if you're unhealthy and trying to heal, RP's comment of "If your digestion is compromised, Starch should be zero." Not low, not minimal, but he clearly said zero. I think that's important. That means no cheating ever. holds true in my experience. And I agree with him now.

One comment people may have is that starch is OK as long as you eat low to zero fat, but even that's not true in my experience. I tried a very low fat, moderate protein, high starch diet once and it didn't end well for me.

 

[magnesiumania]

Ray has talked about commercial ascorbic acid being allergenic so I think most people on the forum wouldn't be using an ascorbic acid supplement. Orange juice is a better option.

Vitamin C has bioflavonoids etc, all part of a complex with tyrosinase and copper in the center. Ascorbic acid is a PRO-OXIDANT and nothing but the outer shell.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Vitamin C has bioflavonoids etc, all part of a complex with tyrosinase and copper in the center. Ascorbic acid is a PRO-OXIDANT and nothing but the outer shell.

Wrong. Vitamin C is Ascorbic Acid, full stop. It does not have "bioflavonoids," although I have no doubt that many fruits contain both ascorbic acid and bioflavanoids.

Ascorbic Acid is never a Pro-Oxidant. When it is oxidized to dehydroascorbic acid, then yes, it is a Pro Oxidant, but that's a different substance. And that dehyroascorbic acid can then be reduced back into ascorbic acid.

More important is the net effect. Supplemental Vitamin C improves the NAD+/NADH ratio of the organism, which is the opposite of what so called Pro Oxidants do.

 

[Broken man]

Improve your gut barrier

 

[milk_lover]

For me, high serotonin, high endotoxin, and high histamine almost feel the same. I call them 'gut emergency' to make things simple for me. I get one or more of the following symptoms: tired, bloated, unmotivated, reduction in libido, water retention, red eyes, lower back ache, skin issues, hives, dandruff, scalp and chest zits, runny or closed nose, sinus, and dry mouth. All those years of experimentation, I find seafood more than twice a week could cause gut emergency, especially mussels. Large amounts of wheat like pizza and bread even with plenty of saturated fat cause gut emergency. Believe it or not, rice without saturated fat is worse than wheat. However, rice with saturated fat is almost perfect, no gut emergency whatsoever. MCT and coconut oil cause gut emergency. Potatoes do sometimes. Cow milk does sometimes too. So it's just different from person to another.

I find charcoal to be very very helpful for gut emergency. Carrots are weak compared to them. Aspirin, magnesium, taurine, and coffee/caffeine are other helpful tools. Vitamin D3 and K2 are good options too.

 

[Waremu]

Improve your gut barrier

I've been strictly Peating since 2012. I don't have a high PUFA tissue saturation anymore. Tests are fairly good, as well as pulse and body temp and sleep, and digestion, etc. I don't think it has much to do with my gut barrier. Starch and spices will cause endotoxin and serotonin issues regardless of gut barrier. Digestion is always fine until I eat starches and/or spices.

 

[Broken man]

I've been strictly Peating since 2012. I don't have a high PUFA tissue saturation anymore. Tests are fairly good, as well as pulse and body temp and sleep, and digestion, etc. I don't think it has much to do with my gut barrier. Starch and spices will cause endotoxin and serotonin issues regardless of gut barrier. Digestion is always fine until I eat starches and/or spices.

But the gut barrier will dont let much of the endotoxin enter the bloodstream and you will have some amount of endotoxin all the time thanks to bacteria.

 

[charlie]

If I slip up and have rice at night for example, the next morning I'll wake up feeling like I got heavily sedated, heavy bags under my eyes etc...

Sugar is the only thing that doesn't do that to me.

That's all it took for me to be convinced of RP being right about starch. You're right, I think many people are in denial about starch. Maybe some can truly handle it, but I think the amount of people who can handle it are very very small. Because of this, if you're unhealthy and trying to heal, RP's comment of "If your digestion is compromised, Starch should be zero." Not low, not minimal, but he clearly said zero. I think that's important. That means no cheating ever. holds true in my experience. And I agree with him now.

One comment people may have is that starch is OK as long as you eat low to zero fat, but even that's not true in my experience. I tried a very low fat, moderate protein, high starch diet once and it didn't end well for me.

No doubt. Starch is a big no no.

 

[Waremu]

For me, high serotonin, high endotoxin, and high histamine almost feel the same. I call them 'gut emergency' to make things simple for me. I get one or more of the following symptoms: tired, bloated, unmotivated, reduction in libido, water retention, red eyes, lower back ache, skin issues, hives, dandruff, scalp and chest zits, runny or closed nose, sinus, and dry mouth. All those years of experimentation, I find seafood more than twice a week could cause gut emergency, especially mussels. Large amounts of wheat like pizza and bread even with plenty of saturated fat cause gut emergency. Believe it or not, rice without saturated fat is worse than wheat. However, rice with saturated fat is almost perfect, no gut emergency whatsoever. MCT and coconut oil cause gut emergency. Potatoes do sometimes. Cow milk does sometimes too. So it's just different from person to another.

I find charcoal to be very very helpful for gut emergency. Carrots are weak compared to them. Aspirin, magnesium, taurine, and coffee/caffeine are other helpful tools. Vitamin D3 and K2 are good options too.

Intersting that you also mention lower back pain and some of the other same symptoms of endotoxin and serotonin. Definitely matches up with mine. Also your experience of eating white rice with no fat is spot on with mine. Milk works well for me, but I find that is heavily dependent on thyroid and gut health for it to work. Some studies posted on this form recently suggest that some types of the gut bacteria can use up or interfere with lactase enzymes, for example, etc. Danny Roddy mentioned this as well, that after cleaning his gut out he began to handle milk very well. This has been exactly on point with my experience as well. I like carrot salad for maintenance of gut, but find I have to go in hands deep and do heavy lifting with taking the charcoal a few times per week to keep it cleaner. I think both have their place for me. But some people have it worse, so maybe they can't just do carrots and need a more serious approach like antibiotics or charcoal.

 

[milk_lover]

Intersting that you also mention lower back pain and some of the other same symptoms of endotoxin and serotonin. Definitely matches up with mine. Also your experience of eating white rice with no fat is spot on with mine. Milk works well for me, but I find that is heavily dependent on thyroid and gut health for it to work. Some studies posted on this form recently suggest that some types of the gut bacteria can use up or interfere with lactase enzymes, for example, etc. Danny Roddy mentioned this as well, that after cleaning his gut out he began to handle milk very well. This has been exactly on point with my experience as well. I like carrot salad for maintenance of gut, but find I have to go in hands deep and do heavy lifting with taking the charcoal a few times per week to keep it cleaner. I think both have their place for me. But some people have it worse, so maybe they can't just do carrots and need a more serious approach like antibiotics or charcoal.

Yeah cow milk, I am taking about commercial cow milk, can be a tricky business for many people. Goat milk is very easy on the gut. I have to have a clean gut (almost zero starch for at least two day and regular bathroom movements throughout) to be fully able to digest commercial cow milk. Good thyroid is essential to keep the movements regular and bad bacteria in check. So yeah I agree with the thyroid and milk connection.

I do charcoal three times a week and I find that more helpful than carrot and easier to do on a regular basis. I just despise the taste of carrots. Adding olive or coconut oil to the shredded carrot makes it more disgusting for my taste buds. They are hard to chew and swallow and the water that comes outta it while chewing is annoying lol. Sorry for the rant. I hope one day I can make carrots work for me.

Also, I forgot to add eggs to the list of offensive food. I only use aspirin for emergency situations. For general protection from PUFA, I use vitamin E.

 

[Blossom]

Yeah cow milk, I am taking about commercial cow milk, can be a tricky business for many people.

Stopping dairy solved 99% of what I thought was endotoxin issues. I guess everyone is different.

 

[Runenight201]

For me, high serotonin, high endotoxin, and high histamine almost feel the same. I call them 'gut emergency' to make things simple for me. I get one or more of the following symptoms: tired, bloated, unmotivated, reduction in libido, water retention, red eyes, lower back ache, skin issues, hives, dandruff, scalp and chest zits, runny or closed nose, sinus, and dry mouth. All those years of experimentation, I find seafood more than twice a week could cause gut emergency, especially mussels. Large amounts of wheat like pizza and bread even with plenty of saturated fat cause gut emergency. Believe it or not, rice without saturated fat is worse than wheat. However, rice with saturated fat is almost perfect, no gut emergency whatsoever. MCT and coconut oil cause gut emergency. Potatoes do sometimes. Cow milk does sometimes too. So it's just different from person to another.

I find charcoal to be very very helpful for gut emergency. Carrots are weak compared to them. Aspirin, magnesium, taurine, and coffee/caffeine are other helpful tools. Vitamin D3 and K2 are good options too.

I've found rice to be subpar at best and catastrophic at worse. I'm sure I could eat it in conjunction with milk and sugar, in the latin famous arroz con leche (just like I do my oats), but any other way it falls short. One time I placed too much water in my rice cooker, leaving me with watery rice, and in my high cortisol agitated state I decided to eat it instead of re-making a batch, and promptly proceeded to have a terrible allergic reaction. In fact, the time I had a terrible oats reaction was when the water content of the batch I made was too high, so I believe that high water + starch + insufficient salt is a recipe for digestive upset and inflammation.

I'm struggling with commercial milk. I just had a delicious cookies and cream ice cream on a waffle cone, and I craved some milk. My mental clarity was very good at this point, but upon drinking some commercial milk, I felt the confusion and degradation of cognition set in. Coffee has offset it slightly, but I will have to sort out this dairy and cognition problem. It's very unfortunate that commercial milk is so damn cheap, and goat's milk is much more expensive.

 

[milk_lover]

Stopping dairy solved 99% of what I thought was endotoxin issues. I guess everyone is different.

So even cheese causes problems for you? Where do you get your calcium? I find ground egg shell tedious to do. What about goat dairy?

 

[milk_lover]

I've found rice to be subpar at best and catastrophic at worse. I'm sure I could eat it in conjunction with milk and sugar, in the latin famous arroz con leche (just like I do my oats), but any other way it falls short. One time I placed too much water in my rice cooker, leaving me with watery rice, and in my high cortisol agitated state I decided to eat it instead of re-making a batch, and promptly proceeded to have a terrible allergic reaction. In fact, the time I had a terrible oats reaction was when the water content of the batch I made was too high, so I believe that high water + starch + insufficient salt is a recipe for digestive upset and inflammation.

I'm struggling with commercial milk. I just had a delicious cookies and cream ice cream on a waffle cone, and I craved some milk. My mental clarity was very good at this point, but upon drinking some commercial milk, I felt the confusion and degradation of cognition set in. Coffee has offset it slightly, but I will have to sort out this dairy and cognition problem. It's very unfortunate that commercial milk is so damn cheap, and goat's milk is much more expensive.

I love rice pudding so much. We have it as a traditional dish here as well. The water to salt ratio is an interesting angle for preparing rice. What about the over/under cooking angle? I wish cow milk works all the time because I truly enjoy its taste besides its cheapness and availability everywhere.

 

[Blossom]

So even cheese causes problems for you? Where do you get your calcium? I find ground egg shell is tedious to do. What about goat dairy?

I do use eggshells. I stopped for a while but noticed I feel better when I get some calcium.. I suppose I must be intolerant to the cow dairy proteins. I can tolerate sheep and goats dairy fine although I don't eat it very much because it's hard to find where I live.

 

[LUH 3417]

Quali C seems to give me gas even if it helps relieve endotoxin stress. Does anyone else experience this and have any suggestions for how to use it effectively? Is this a result of endotoxins being flushed out?

 

[LUH 3417]

Is it better to buy old organic food or fresh non organic food? In order to get organic produce and grass fed vegetables I have to travel far and stock up, freeze the meat, etc. I was buying pastured meat from an Amish farmer but some of it has been frozen months ago and I believe the high levels of histamine of the half spoiled meat may increase endotoxin for me. Would it be better to get fresh produce and meat from a non organic grocery instead? I am going to try and experiment but I think old food does contribute significantly to my endotoxin symptoms.

 

[milk_lover]

I do use eggshells. I stopped for a while but noticed I feel better when I get some calcium.. I suppose I must be intolerant to the cow dairy proteins. I can tolerate sheep and goats dairy fine although I don't eat it very much because it's hard to find where I live.

Yeah for me it's hard to find goat milk fresh. I tend to buy the long lived (UHT) goat milk imported from the UK. I buy a lot of it and store it in the kitchen. I drink a liter a day but it's quite expensive (4 USD/liter).

 

[Runenight201]

I love rice pudding so much. We have it as a traditional dish here as well. The water to salt ratio is an interesting angle for preparing rice. What about the over/under cooking angle? I wish cow milk works all the time because I truly enjoy its taste besides its cheapness and availability everywhere.

Undercooked starch for sure isn't ideal, but I don't think it's as bad for me as too much water/not enough salt. In fact in my negative oat reaction, some of the oats were undercooked, but when I had a positive reaction to the oat's in my second preparation, there were still some undercooked oats, but they didn't seem to bother me since they weren't over watered and were salted better. Cow's cheese is fine, and same with ice cream from cow's, it's specifically straight milk that seems to be problematic so far. I will have to try un-homogenized before concluding that it is cow's milk that is the problem though. I recall reacting fine to skim, but when I used to drink it I always felt wanting.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I'm working on lots of C (6 - 9g today), tiny antibiotic amounts, etc., and my throat is better, 80%. I always used to think I was getting an infection. It's amazing how misguided this all is when it's all endotoxins. It is possible I have an infection but I doubt it.

Really interesting stuff.

I've been milk free for 3 or 4 days now.

 

[milk_lover]

Undercooked starch for sure isn't ideal, but I don't think it's as bad for me as too much water/not enough salt. In fact in my negative oat reaction, some of the oats were undercooked, but when I had a positive reaction to the oat's in my second preparation, there were still some undercooked oats, but they didn't seem to bother me since they weren't over watered and were salted better. Cow's cheese is fine, and same with ice cream from cow's, it's specifically straight milk that seems to be problematic so far. I will have to try un-homogenized before concluding that it is cow's milk that is the problem though. I recall reacting fine to skim, but when I used to drink it I always felt wanting.

Yeah please keep us updated. My partner hates milk so much that she is surprised I enjoy it. She thinks it's water with white color almost like spoiled/contaminated water. She is a cheese lover and her skin is smooth like baby face. But she doesn't eat cheese alone. It has to be in some sort of wheat product like caprese sandwich, pizza, pasta, cheese cake, or a loaf of bread. She likes it melted or cooked. I think that's enough for her because she is almost vegetarian. She hates meat unless it's ground and doesn't care about chicken much. She calls herself a sea creature hater. So since she doesn't eat much meat, her Ca/P should be ok. Maybe the milk in your case is related to too much water compared to salt? Cheese is highly salted. And since people have problems with starch and milk in general, maybe your theory about starch salt level is similar to milk being hard for digestion.