Everyone Should Recognize High Endotoxin States

[ecstatichamster]

I have noticed mine. Sore throat. Aches in my wrists. Feeling of malaise.

I used to think "I am coming down with something," but now I recognize this as a high endotoxin state.

What to do about it? Riboflavin seems to help. Charcoal. Methylene blue.

 

[Dobbler]

Depression, anxious/stressed, very low energy, no desire to eat what so ever/thinking of eating makes me uncomfortable

 

[tankasnowgod]

I have noticed mine. Sore throat. Aches in my wrists. Feeling of malaise.

I used to think "I am coming down with something," but now I recognize this as a high endotoxin state.

What to do about it? Riboflavin seems to help. Charcoal. Methylene blue.

Vitamin C. In higher doses. Not only has this been known for quite a while (look at work of Linus Pauling, Robert Cathcart and others in regards to vitamin C preventing colds and such), but it is also counters the effects of Endotoxin- Vitamin C Is An Endotoxin Antagonist And Can Reduce Cortisol And Inflammation

 

[Mauritio]

Flushing ,sweating , stressed energy following a crash after that, sometimes red in the eyes.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Vitamin C. In higher doses. Not only has this been known for quite a while (look at work of Linus Pauling, Robert Cathcart and others in regards to vitamin C preventing colds and such), but it is also counters the effects of Endotoxin- Vitamin C Is An Endotoxin Antagonist And Can Reduce Cortisol And Inflammation

great point.

 

[Makrosky]

I have noticed mine. Sore throat. Aches in my wrists. Feeling of malaise.

I used to think "I am coming down with something," but now I recognize this as a high endotoxin state.

What to do about it? Riboflavin seems to help. Charcoal. Methylene blue.

I guess you mean endotoxin from the gut.

Plenty of things you already know my friend. Raw garlic, mushrooms, minocycline, etc... However the problem seems to be that given the wrong circumstances (which is probably often) bad bacreria/yeast can repopulate quicker than good one. And all these substances kill both good and bad.

 

[magnesiumania]

great point.

Hello im new to this forum. I assume Linus Pauling used ascorbic acid. Most people are not aware that this is only part of the C molecule. I would not take any vitamin C in high doses unless its whole food vit C with the tyrosinase enzyme and thats expensive....

 

[michael94]

what about colic in babies? crying without being able to be consoled. We suffer just as much at times but we are not able to externalize the pain like babies due to slow metabolism. So it just traumatizes us instead

 

[InChristAlone]

Hello im new to this forum. I assume Linus Pauling used ascorbic acid. Most people are not aware that this is only part of the C molecule. I would not take any vitamin C in high doses unless its whole food vit C with the tyrosinase enzyme and thats expensive....

Is that what animals make? Because I'm pretty sure they don't make "whole food C".

 

[Sugar Bun]

What do animals have to do with "whole food c"?

 

[ecstatichamster]

My endotoxin symptoms have been bad lately. I have started 3g X 3 times a day, QualiC. Also small doses of amoxycillin (20 - 50mg twice a day). And methylene blue and high doses of riboflavin.

My throat was sore but I think it's getting better.

 

[tankasnowgod]

What do animals have to do with "whole food c"?

Every animal on the planet, with the exception of humans, primates, guniea pigs, and the African Fruit Bat, make their own vitamin C as a hormone. And they are making Ascorbic Acid. And yes, Linus Pauling and the other doctors that had great success with Vitamin C, such as Cathcart, Cameron, Klenner and such all used plain Ascorbic Acid and Sodium Ascorbate, not "whole food vitamin C."

 

[schultz]

Hello im new to this forum. I assume Linus Pauling used ascorbic acid. Most people are not aware that this is only part of the C molecule. I would not take any vitamin C in high doses unless its whole food vit C with the tyrosinase enzyme and thats expensive....

Ray has talked about commercial ascorbic acid being allergenic so I think most people on the forum wouldn't be using an ascorbic acid supplement. Orange juice is a better option.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Ray has talked about commercial ascorbic acid being allergenic so I think most people on the forum wouldn't be using an ascorbic acid supplement. Orange juice is a better option.

Yes this is true. Contaminated anyway. I use QualiC. I think it's very helpful at least for now.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Ray has talked about commercial ascorbic acid being allergenic so I think most people on the forum wouldn't be using an ascorbic acid supplement. Orange juice is a better option.

Ray has talked about all sorts of supplements being allergenic that people on this forum use all the time. I'm not exactly sure why Vitamin C always gets singled out. Here is the one quote I heard Ray Peat talking about Vitamin C that can be sourced to an interview or article- Ray Peat (starting at 18:36)-

Full context-

"ANDREW MURRAY: Okay, very good. Let’s move on to the next food subject so we can try and get through as many of these as we can before the phones start ringing. How about – gosh, I’d say, additive number two on the list, citric acid and ascorbic acid, the common ingredients that you find perhaps on juices, especially orange juice.

RAY PEAT: I started running into people who had mysterious allergies in Eugene. They tend to start with the pollen season and then continue with grass feed – field burning in the later summer. But allergies were extremely common in Eugene. But I found that some people had year -round allergies and they were consistently taking all the anti-allergy supplements, pantothenic acid, vitamin A, vitamin C and so on. And I suggested that they try stopping those for a while to see what happens. And I got essentially 100% results in curing the local allergies. And that was when I started doing a lot of nutrition counseling because everyone was so surprised to see they have been allergic to the supplements. And ascorbic acid – that caused me to investigate the history of it. In 1953, when I worked in the woods the word went around that you could cure poison oak with ascorbic acid. And I tried it myself. And in just two or three days, I completely recovered from a horrible case of poison oak and never caught it again. At that time, it was very expensive to make. And the pills on sale were only 50 mg. Several years later they developed new ways of manufacturing it. One of the processes Linus Pauling described as the lead room for making sulfuric acid which is then – the sulfuric acid is slightly contaminated with lead and other heavy metals. Then the cornstarch is processed, oxidized with this industrial sulfuric acid and ends up as ascorbic acid containing quite a bit of heavy metal. And with these new methods, I found that when people were taking 500 or 1,000 mg, they would often develop cold symptoms when they took it rather than when they didn't take it. And it apparently is irritating enough to the intestines that it causes endotoxin absorption and inflammation of the nose and throat and chest membrane. And citric acid is manufactured by very similar methods to ascorbic acid. And they really shouldn't be considered to have anything to do with the natural ascorbic acid or citric acid. The person who can get very sick on 2 mg of synthetic ascorbic acid can eat 4,000 mg of natural ascorbic acid with no reaction at all.

ANDREW MURRAY: Yeah. I think that’s a very important point. You’re saying that’s actually – even though they might call it the same product, actually the industrial manufacturer of it produces a very different effect.

RAY PEAT: Yeah. One researcher dissolved a 500 mg tablet of commercial ascorbic acid in a liter of water and then put it in a machine that measures free radicals. And he said it was like a storm of free radicals. He said it’s amazing it doesn’t – it was equivalent to something like a 100 rads – no 600 rads of X-rays would take to produce that many free radicals in the water."

So, that's the full context (I bolded some parts). I don't know what study he is referring to in the last quote, but I doubt that applies to the vast majority of Ascorbic Acid that's been sold the past 50 years. If anyone can find it, please post. As far as Peat's other subjective experiences...... that has not been my personal experience with higher gram size doses of Ascorbic Acid supplements. I've taken anywhere from 3-9 grams a day recently, kicking it up to 12 grams in a couple hours to successfully fight off a cold. So, higher than the doses that Peat claims created problems, and I have felt more energetic since starting those doses.

As far as Orange Juice..... yes, OJ is great. I am drinking it myself. But it would be impractical to use OJ if you are interested in the higer gram size doses that replecate what animals make, and that Vitamin C doctors have had great success giving to their patients.

 

[tankasnowgod]

By the way, to keep it on topic...... Here is my thread discussing Vitamin C and it's use against Endotoxin, both as a supplement and C containing whole foods-

Vitamin C Is An Endotoxin Antagonist And Can Reduce Cortisol And Inflammation

 

[Runenight201]

For me endotoxin overload is flushing, sweating, sebum production, cystic acne

I’ve noticed it the worst when my stomach is very upset (so it could be endotoxins + serotonin overload) usually from eating too much unsalted meat and starch with not enough fat. I improperly prepared oats and had a huge endotoxins burden, but then a couple days later prepared them correctly and received a very welcome increase in energy, strength, and well-being.

My strategy when endotoxins overload occurs is too simply fast from starchy, meaty foods (I don’t even crave them in this state anyways) and consume fruit juices as craved (oj and apple juice)

In fact, anytime I consume a food that’s not what my stomach is happy about, i get negative symptoms, furthering my own anecdotal conclusions that good health has to be found in robust digestion.

I’ll be placing further emphasis on making sure my starches and meats are salted and prepared exactly to taste, and that there is always just the right amount of fat when I eat them. People think I’m too picky, but then again many people are unhealth =P

I have begun looking into additional spices and herbs that I can put into my cooked foods and teas to improve digestion. So far I have found cilantro, lemon, and cinnamon to be effective, used respectively in the various foods I prepare to improve palatability and digestion (which is the only way I’ll have it, and I am against taking something which improves digestion but is unpalatable).

 

[lvysaur]

For me endotoxin overload is flushing, sweating, sebum production, cystic acne

+1 for sebum production.

I actually thought of making a post on this: when I find myself in a low energy state, I actually take longer to dry off in the shower. I can shake, but I'll still have water sticking to my body.

This always coincides with my skin being oilier than usual. The most obvious culprit here is higher PUFA in the sebum, causing water solubility. And also that higher total sebum means higher PUFA.

 

[Vinero]

High dose magnesium to flush out the bowel is my strategy when having high-endotoxin symptoms. It works every time. I take as much magnesium as I can until I get diarrhea. Usually around 1000-1200 mg of magnesium glycinate spread out across the day.

 

[Waremu]

I have noticed mine. Sore throat. Aches in my wrists. Feeling of malaise.

I used to think "I am coming down with something," but now I recognize this as a high endotoxin state.

What to do about it? Riboflavin seems to help. Charcoal. Methylene blue.

I very get similar side effects whenever I go more than a few days of eating starch, which definitely is most likely endotoxin-serotonin related. No matter how well I keep my gut, once I start eating starchy carbs it inevitaely happens. And the feeling is night and day difference between that and when I am starch free. My mental clairty is lacking, lower back pain returns, scratchy throat at times. The feeling of weak or being lethargic returns. Lack of motivation as well.

The only way I have found to consistently keep my gut as clean as I am able to, and that works for me, is by eating no starchy or spicy foods, which upset the gut and cause serotonin and increased endotoxin (I have noticed that the healthier my gut is, the more sensitive it is to spices), eat vitamin c or drink fresh orange juice with most of my meals to keep gut endotoxin and inflammation after meal low, use large doses of activated charcoal 2-3 times per week for regular periods to get that anti-biotic effect on the gut, and eat mostly easily digestible foods and have some coffee between meals which also helps keep endotoxin low. Carrot salad daily is also essential. I notice immediately the effects of endotoxin begin to come on if I skip in carrot salad.

I usually don’t have a heavy appetite until dinner anyway, so consume mostly my easiest foods through the day and right before bed and keep my heavier meal for my evening dinner or sometimes lunch. But I’ll usuakly I start the day with some fresh honeydew melon juice or orange juice to get out of morning stress, then just drink raw milk/oj/gelatin shakes for my meals throughout the day until dinner, which is usually some kind of meat/oysters. Always milk/gelatin/carbs right before bed as well. I also will make green vegetable broths made with kale and sprouted lentils and other greens to make sure I get enough molybdenum and some other extra minerals. I do this a few times per eeek. (The lentils are fully sprouted/green sprouts so I don’t really get starch from drinking the broth of it.)

If I keep this way of eating, my lower back pain which I have from my earlier years of powerlifting are abolished completely. (This also had to with not keeping my diet overly acidic as well I believe, but I think it is also endotoxin related from my experience). Also, as long as I eat in this strict Peat way, I notice my mental clarity and motivation is great, bowl movements are regular, and I just all around feel the best. Very at peace and calm but also able to create and be motivated and carry out my tasks.

I have noticed over the years how many people who eventually give up doing Peat never really did a starch free Peat diet. They did for a little while perhaps but not for prolonged periods. I think this may be one of the biggest problems that causes a lot of people to give up. They likely never are able to feel good and see the results they want due to endotoxin and serotonin from heavy starch consumption. I am sure there are people who say they eat some starch and do well and that is good for them, but I think there are many out there who suffer too much from serotonin and endotoxin due to heavy starch use and many may not fully know it. This has been my experience and I do love starch in principle because it can taste good, but it is as guaranteed as 5 x5= 25 that the starch and serotonin and endotoxin connection for me is very related and in the end feeling better is far more important than the quick pleasure of eating some starchy foods. But that was the main problem causing endotoxin and serotonin to flare up for me. I now understand why Peat days what he says about starch.