Do You Find Limonene Helpful For SIBO And GERD?

[RatRancher]

I am starting to think that GERD and reflux are not caused by hydrochloric acid per se, but by lactic acid excess.


https://collections.nlm.nih.gov/ext/dw/101320317/PDF/101320317.pdf
The author found a link between hypochloridia (low acid) and an increase in stomach created lactic acid.
Some people have speculated that low hcl is the primary driver of gerd,by not having a low enough ph,the LES remains open,causeing the esophageal burn.

I have used limonenne, and it works very well.

But I think the primary problem is hypochloridia that causes lactic acid producing bacteria to proliferate in the stomach. This eventually leads to SIBO which we are all familiar with.

Baking soda is a temporary fix,in that it fixes a symptom but not the problem. Limonenne may help by lowering bacteria that causes lactic acid,and blocking the LES from reluxing acid.

My opinion is that the only real cure is to increase hcl. I know its frowned upon here but Betaine HCL in largish doses (6 per meal) has really helped my digestion out. HCL increase makes lactic acid decrease.
Again, all the acid lowering cures for GERD, PPI's, famotadine,baking soda etc all create an environment that allows an increase in lactic acid producing bacteria.
Haidut has talked about how PPI drugs actually caused an increase in cancer, My non scientific view is that the lowered HCL allows lactic acid to run amok and the LA creates an environment that is pro-cancer.

 

[Fexxx]

Is d-limonene still a good option (sibo ect) or would you switch to camphoric acid?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I am starting to think that GERD and reflux are not caused by hydrochloric acid per se, but by lactic acid excess.


https://collections.nlm.nih.gov/ext/dw/101320317/PDF/101320317.pdf
The author found a link between hypochloridia (low acid) and an increase in stomach created lactic acid.
Some people have speculated that low hcl is the primary driver of gerd,by not having a low enough ph,the LES remains open,causeing the esophageal burn.

I have used limonenne, and it works very well.

But I think the primary problem is hypochloridia that causes lactic acid producing bacteria to proliferate in the stomach. This eventually leads to SIBO which we are all familiar with.

Baking soda is a temporary fix,in that it fixes a symptom but not the problem. Limonenne may help by lowering bacteria that causes lactic acid,and blocking the LES from reluxing acid.

My opinion is that the only real cure is to increase hcl. I know its frowned upon here but Betaine HCL in largish doses (6 per meal) has really helped my digestion out. HCL increase makes lactic acid decrease.
Again, all the acid lowering cures for GERD, PPI's, famotadine,baking soda etc all create an environment that allows an increase in lactic acid producing bacteria.
Haidut has talked about how PPI drugs actually caused an increase in cancer, My non scientific view is that the lowered HCL allows lactic acid to run amok and the LA creates an environment that is pro-cancer.

Good points. Did you work up to six capsules of betaine HCl? How did you arrive at that? Do you take it after meals, before or during? What improvements have you noticed?

I continue valuing d-limonene for heartburn as it pretty much fixes it for me.

 

[RatRancher]

Warning, some non Peaty stuff.....

EH, I got to 6 hcl because the dosage guidelines on the bottle did not work for me. 2 per meal was just not enough.
I had read online to take as many as needed to feel a burn,and cut back from that. My stomach felt warm at 7.

I posted about GERD and LPR the other day. Based on my symptoms I realized that I have or have evolved into LPR.
The main difference is that GERD is acid in the esophagus, and LPR is (appears to be at least) pepsin and/or bile acids in the esophagus that leak out from the LES. Pepsin is dorment above a certain ph,but reactivates when the ph drops. This drop does not have to be from stomach acid- oj,coffee and coke all have enough acid to reactivate it.The exception is if it encounters a ph above about 9. Then it is irreversibly shut down.

So, my protocol is hcl - 6 capsule. 2 with the first bite- 2 mid meal-2 righ before the last bite. The logic being to avoid "hot spots",and to get the hcl mixed with the whole meal. Then a limonenne capsule which acts as a barrier to reinforce the LES.
In this last week I have added alkaline water when i feel a GERD/LPR attack. Between meals its been a miracle for me. In my Gerd/ LPR thread I posted the the ingredients to Essentia water (ph 9.5) for those who want to diy it.

Fexx, again I am not expert. But my current theory is that SIBO is the result of low acid allowing pathogenic bacteria a chance to survive the stomach . Limonenne may help in an antiseptic way. But to keep SIBO away you have to have stomach acid in amounts that kill off bacteria before they get to the small intestine.
Then the usual, starve them out. Low/no starch and soluable fiber.
Charlie has a few great posts about niacinamide and subclinical pellagra- and pellagras link to slower bowel transit time. So, I have added niacinamide and all the Bs and noticed some dramatic improvements.
Aspirin and its anti biofilm properties should have a roll in your protocol imho.
I know some other reccomended ghings are garlic , tumeric ,vinegar, grapefruit seed extract etc. I have tried them all and really found no benefit except in vinegar and a silver colloidal drink mixed with hyrdogen peroxide. That last is like a nuclear weapon. The side effects may be pretty bad. And, unless you cut out the food source for these bacteria in SIBO it will return if HCL is not strong enough- even if you eat sanitized good.
Why?
1. You cannot kill all the bad guys
2.you breath.

The bacteria start to live in your sinus cavities from breathing them in. You swallow and the the bacteria ard now in your GI ststem,again.
Imho the only way to keep the problem from recurring is high acid levels and low starch. How low starch will depend on eavh persons Amylase levels.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thanks for your protocols and logic here @RatRancher

Very helpful.

 

[bavy]

which brand are you liking the most? tincture or softgel?

I've had outstanding experiences with limonene and digestion.

I tried milk the other day (ultra pasteurized LF organic, which formerly I tolerated) and started to get heartburn again.

I took limonene and it never materialized. I take 1000mg every other day and it has made my stomach feel MUCH better. Every digestive aspect has improved. So far anyway.

 

[ecstatichamster]

which brand are you liking the most? tincture or softgel?

I have Orange oil and gel caps for when I’m out. I use them rarely but they fix heartburn immediately.

 

[Lollipop2]

which brand are you liking the most? tincture or softgel?

I use this one:

Nature's Way Heartburn Free... Amazon product ASIN B0009ET7ECView: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009ET7EC?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share


Like @ecstatichamster said, it works fast and highly effective.