Danny Roddy Says Randle Cycle Exists Even In The Presence Of An Excess Of Saturated Fats

[Ponce]

Glycogen storage capacity is linked with kind of fat acids : PUFA induce liver fibrosis and so have a bad influence on glycogen storage capacity in the liver. But SFA are reputed (just in this forum ) to be benefit for the liver and prevent fibrosis. So intellectual honesty forces us to consider SFAs as part of a healthy diet, but the question is whether it's not bad to eat them in the same meal.

 

[Cirion]

Yes, even saturated fats cause the randle cycle and all the problems there-in. I could have saved myself a lot of pain and 90 lbs of weight gain if I had only accepted this fact sooner.

 

[LiveWire]

Yes, even saturated fats cause the randle cycle and all the problems there-in. I could have saved myself a lot of pain and 90 lbs of weight gain if I had only accepted this fact sooner.

@CLASH would disagree

 

[Gone Peating]

so if you don't have problems with weight gain when combining carbs and fat, then it's safe to conclude that the randle cycle is not an issue for your body?

 

[LiveWire]

so if you don't have problems with weight gain when combining carbs and fat, then it's safe to conclude that the randle cycle is not an issue for your body?

Me? I don’t know. There’s so much conflicting opinion and information on this site alone, it’s impossible to know.

But i said user Clash who gulps sugar and fat in large amounts and loses body fat would disagree.

But to answer your question, i do think the combination can have negative consequences even in the absence of weight gain.

 

[Cirion]

Yeah I haven't figured out how CLASH is successful. What I will say though is this - He says avoid dairy fat, from what I recall. Dairy fat, probably is the #1 reason I got fat. What is he eating again? Beef tallow and cocoa butter I believe right? These are high stearic acid sources from what I recall, which have been shown to have some positive metabolic effects. I don't think you can say the same for dairy fat. It's not impossible that he's right, as I've never tried a beef tallow+cocoa butter combo. But let's also not forget - he is restricting sugars to 300-400 grams a day while eating high fat. You can alleviate the problems of randle cycle while dropping overall carbs/calories down. I'm not interested in restricting calories. I don't feel good on only 300-400 grams of carbs. I have glycogen retention problems, so 300-400 gram of carbs does not last me through the day. If you mix fats and sugars, it's very easy to spill into caloric excess and thus fat gain. It's harder to spill into caloric excess with pure carbs. I'm also not interested in just weight loss, which of course counting calories will accomplish. I'm interested in feeling good also.

 

[Cirion]

The problem with limiting to a lesser percentage is that you may not experience the benefits of ketones, which have been shown to occur at 80-120 grams per day (or about six tablespoons), which would be about 700 calories. Now if you consume 3500 calories a day, you can just barely make that work.

Georgi, you seem to be using caffeine to boost your body temperature, but caffeine is like thyroid in that it has a therapeutic window, and if you take too much you'll set off a Selye stress reaction that activates the desaturase enzymes -- which means you'll start producing unsaturated fat in your cardiolipin, even if you don't eat any! Not good!!!

The advantage of ketones is that, if you consume enough, they boost body temperature and metabolism at least as effectively as caffeine or thyroid, but there is no therapeutic window to worry about. In the fifty years or so of extensive studies of nutritional ketones, there's been no lethal overdose reported, as there has been with caffeine.

This is the first time I've heard that you can manufacture PUFA's in your body. I thought the body can only create saturated fats? And any PUFA's that are released from stress are those that are pre-existing in your body in the form of body fat (or ingested PUFA's from food)?

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

This is the first time I've heard that you can manufacture PUFA's in your body. I thought the body can only create saturated fats? And any PUFA's that are released from stress are those that are pre-existing in your body in the form of body fat (or ingested PUFA's from food)?

The body definitely can't produced omega-6s or omega-3s, unless you ingest the precursors for these fats( linoleic acid, alfa-linolenic acid, some others as well). The desaturase enzymes in vertebrates don't produce these types of fat. They can produce oleic acid from stearic acid, for example, but they will never synthesize linoleic acid from stearic acid or from oleic acid. Oleic acid can be elongated and desaturated into mead acid, which is a polyunsaturated fat, but due to the location of the unsaturations in this molecule, it is very diferente from plant PUFAs, that is, it's anti-stress and anti-inflammatory.

Oleic acid is very beneficial, as is mead acid, so I think that he was talking about diet-originated PUFAs, which, yes, will replace cardiolipin and increase the stress reaction. Not to mention that PUFAs from diet can be turned into even more potente toxins( arachidonic acid, DHA, EPA, prostaglandins, leukotrienes, thromboxanes).

Fatty acid desaturase - Wikipedia
Vertebrates are unable to synthesize polyunsaturated fatty acids because they do not have the necessary fatty acid desaturases to "convert oleic acid (18:1n-9) into linoleic acid (18:2n-6) and α-linolenic acid".

 

[CLASH]

The randle cycle is a good thing. In my estimation the fatty acids spare sugars in the blood stream so the blood sugar can stay elevated longer and can be saved for higher order uses like the central nervous system. The fats also slow but enhance digestion so you basically have a steady drip of sugar to the liver with the fatty acids thus keeping stress hormones at bay longer.

When you eat low fat your going to need to eat the ridiculous number of carbs that @Cirion discusses and you’ll probably need to eat them often to stop the blood sugar from dropping too much. This is unless of course your eating very high fiber or high starch. The fiber will induce fullness just based on the bulk and starch will induce fullness based on bacteria getting to ferment some of the starch and producing metabolic endproducts that effect hunger. Considering 300-400g of sugar a low amount of sugar is a bit ridiculous in any context besides the context of a very low fat diet.

If your unsure of what works, the only answer left is experimentation. Its the only way to know what works for you.

I will leave you guys with this. I’m 185-190lbs depending on time of the day eating 200g of fat, 300-400g of carbs and about 150g of protein. I’m lean.

*the date on my cronometer is dec 27 2016, the reason is because I made a one week template of food and rather than track everyday I just follow that one week template and make adjustments to it as I go. So that is the week I first used and have been refering to and adjusting ever since.

EDIT: i have been eating this way for over a year without weight gain, just for context. I work out 2x per week on average with weights, no cardio. I’ve never done cardio in my life. Although this last month I havent really exercised at all. I work and live on a night shift schedule 24/7 for the last year. I work 13 hour shifts 3 days a week in a hospital, one day on, one day off. My sleep schedule has been atrocious the past few months. One day i sleep 2-4 hours, then I work my 13 hour shift and I’m so tired after the shift i’ll sleep for 8 hours the next day, I only wake up because I set multiple alarms and put my phone across the room so I have to get it. I dont count calories. I eat as much as I want. I track macros to see what makes me feel the best so I can play with variables for experimentations sake. I also track food quanitity so I can manage my grocery bills lol... but I dont track anything for the sake of losing weight or cutting calories. Despite the night schedule, terrible sleep, stress at work, and complete lack of sunlight i still have a great libido and sex life and my hairloss has stopped. My only other symptom was some problems with the LLQ in my colon but as I’ve posted on other threads I had a strep overgrowth in my stool (based on testing) that I’m working on fixing now.

 

[Inaut]

@CLASH what kind of pineapple juice do you drink? Store bought or home made?

 

[CLASH]

@Inaut
Storebought
Lakeland organic, organic pineapple juice not from concentrate. Its expensive AF. Juice is my biggest expense each month....

 

[Cirion]

@CLASH your success story is interesting, I'll give you that. How old are you again? I think you answered already, but weren't you in your early 20's? If so, I'll be curious to see if it still works once you're 30. I was able to handle a horrible processed food diet and horrible stress and horrible sleep and night owl hours in my 20's without getting fat also. Stress like night owl, horrible sleep can actually be helpful in the short term to lose fat paradoxically enough. This is why caloric deficits work.... until they don't. Stress is a horrible pathway to lose fat and simply not sustainable long-term. That's why I say - I'm curious to see if you're still doing well 10 years later living like that. I would agree that a "Normal" healthy person that is mostly sedentary should be able to get by on 300-400 carbs but keep in mind things like A.) insulin resistance and B.) increased metabolic rate due to increased mass. Because I weigh 100 lb more than you, my metabolic needs are drastically higher (probably 60% at least), as even fat weight is metabolically active. Unfortunately, this actually does mean the fatter you are, the more calories you must eat. Caloric deficits are harmful whether you're lean or your fat. I dunno if you've seen posts by Kelj, but she talks about this. Fat people must eat MORE not less. The rules are just so different if you're 190 vs 290 lb. As Kelj said, oftentimes fat people intermittently starve themselves in vain attempts to lose weight, and this is what keeps them fat. They often go through cycles of starvation and binging. The starvation phase lowers metabolism further then of course the binge results in further weight gain due to lowered metabolism. Strategies are different. Also, insulin resistance means you need to eat even more carbs, because a lot of the carbs you do eat are wasted, and the glucose doesn't reach the cells. If carbs aren't wasted, naturally you'll need less. And BTW even when I was eating high fat I still had to eat extremely high calorie, often even more than I do now, to be satiated (sometimes 6,000-7,000 calories) - so satiation has little to nothing to do with fat intake but more so total caloric intake. This extreme calorie intake plus extreme fat intake plus extreme randle cycle problems = all the weight gain I got. Now, a lot of it was dairy fat, which from reading your recent posts, it seems you also agree that diary fat is fattening. Perhaps, if I had opted for some of the fats you suggested (beef tallow and cocoa butter) things *might* have been different. Who knows. Well, I'll certainly leave it as an option if I'm out of other options, because my gut is not telling me its what I should be doing, but I've been wrong before, so it's always good to have a fallback plan.

The randle cycle is a problem because glucose cannot reach the cells in the presence of FFA's. Who cares if they're "spared", if they can't reach the cells? That said, some of what you said is true -IF someone is not already insulin resistant. Once someone is insulin resistance, ANY fats in the bloodstream can be dangerous. Fats just don't restore insulin sensitivity, it's a physical impossibility, their very presence makes it harder for cells to uptake glucose, and in a body that already has compromised glucose uptake, this is a bad bad idea...

All that said, what you said about experimentation is 100% spot on. I also am a huge believer in gathering raw data -- the more the better. The more data you gather, the more you can start to spot trends. I work with data on my day job. I should have started gathering lots and lots of data sooner, I'd probably have avoided the mess I got myself into. But now... It's time to finally do this, no excuses.

 

[sladerunner69]

The randle cycle is a good thing. In my estimation the fatty acids spare sugars in the blood stream so the blood sugar can stay elevated longer and can be saved for higher order uses like the central nervous system. The fats also slow but enhance digestion so you basically have a steady drip of sugar to the liver with the fatty acids thus keeping stress hormones at bay longer.

When you eat low fat your going to need to eat the ridiculous number of carbs that @Cirion discusses and you’ll probably need to eat them often to stop the blood sugar from dropping too much. This is unless of course your eating very high fiber or high starch. The fiber will induce fullness just based on the bulk and starch will induce fullness based on bacteria getting to ferment some of the starch and producing metabolic endproducts that effect hunger. Considering 300-400g of sugar a low amount of sugar is a bit ridiculous in any context besides the context of a very low fat diet.

If your unsure of what works, the only answer left is experimentation. Its the only way to know what works for you.

I will leave you guys with this. I’m 185-190lbs depending on time of the day eating 200g of fat, 300-400g of carbs and about 150g of protein. I’m lean.

*the date on my cronometer is dec 27 2016, the reason is because I made a one week template of food and rather than track everyday I just follow that one week template and make adjustments to it as I go. So that is the week I first used and have been refering to and adjusting ever since.

EDIT: i have been eating this way for over a year without weight gain, just for context. I work out 2x per week on average with weights, no cardio. I’ve never done cardio in my life. Although this last month I havent really exercised at all. I work and live on a night shift schedule 24/7 for the last year. I work 13 hour shifts 3 days a week in a hospital, one day on, one day off. My sleep schedule has been atrocious the past few months. One day i sleep 2-4 hours, then I work my 13 hour shift and I’m so tired after the shift i’ll sleep for 8 hours the next day, I only wake up because I set multiple alarms and put my phone across the room so I have to get it. I dont count calories. I eat as much as I want. I track macros to see what makes me feel the best so I can play with variables for experimentations sake. I also track food quanitity so I can manage my grocery bills lol... but I dont track anything for the sake of losing weight or cutting calories. Despite the night schedule, terrible sleep, stress at work, and complete lack of sunlight i still have a great libido and sex life and my hairloss has stopped. My only other symptom was some problems with the LLQ in my colon but as I’ve posted on other threads I had a strep overgrowth in my stool (based on testing) that I’m working on fixing now.

When I began peating I would eat 300-400grams of carbs and just 100 grams of fat each day, and I ended up gaining 25 lbs, mostly in fat. Eventually I went from 190 to 230lbs, over the course of a few years, eating roughly that same amount. If you are managing to stay at 190lbs and be relatively lean than that is strange to me, maybe you have a naturally high metabolic rate.

 

[CLASH]

@sladerunner69
What form of fat? What form of sugar?

 

[Cirion]

@sladerunner69 from what I can recall (correct me if wrong) didn't you, like me, gorge on lots of dairy fat/ice cream? It seems (if that's true), we're starting to arrive at a point of commonality - That is, that dairy fat is virtually universally fattening. It definitely seems to me, that choices of food matter STRONGLY within a macronutrient.

 

[Adrienlcrx]

@choc Did you find an important advantage in consuming the juice rather than the whole pineapple? For the same amount of sugar I notice that pineapple is very sweet for me, it avoids constipation thanks to the fibers and enzymes naturally present in its flesh I think

 

[MatheusPN]

@sladerunner69 from what I can recall (correct me if wrong) didn't you, like me, gorge on lots of dairy fat/ice cream? It seems (if that's true), we're starting to arrive at a point of commonality - That is, that dairy fat is virtually universally fattening. It definitely seems to me, that choices of food matter STRONGLY within a macronutrient.

Count me in. Full fat dairy was the only thing that made me gain weight and was with two to three time less calories, since following peat guidelines, and easily was my record in weight gain. Achieved 55 kg, without body fat apparently, looking at my photos, I look even drier, with belly with bigger packs consider that now I use Gonadin; now weight is virtually stable since I come to 54,5 kg/ 120 lb
Peat said full dairy is fattening, everyone will reminds Westside

 

[Waremu]

Count me in. Full fat dairy was the only thing that made me gain weight and was with two to three time less calories, since following peat guidelines, and easily was my record in weight gain. Achieved 55 kg, without body fat apparently, looking at my photos, I look even drier, with belly with bigger packs consider that now I use Gonadin; now weight is virtually stable since I come to 54,5 kg/ 120 lb
Peat said full dairy is fattening, everyone will reminds Westside

This has been my experience with full fat dairy as well. Also, full fat milk will add quite a bit of extra PUFA pretty quick if you’re already eating meat and eggs/other normal ‘Peat’ type foods. It’s good if you’re maybe trying to gain some weight, but even then I tend to just add more lean protein over fat when I want extra calories to gain more muscle, since protein is more thermogenic than fat. I think fat has its place in helping with digestion, but I don’t go overboard on it, especially when cutting or maintaining weight. I tend to do best on low fat, high carb, moderate to high protein for cutting fat weight. Fructose/sugar over starches has a dramatically different effect on me as well, with fat loss where I lean up more with calories coming from fruit/sugar over starches. It’s actually crazy with how fast I lean up once I cut down the fat and cut out starches. Funny how some claim to do better on starches. I’ve done very detailed low fat experiments but with starches and I still don’t lean out as well even on those. I think the insulin modulating effects of fructose in sugar is probably one likely benefits for me. And I tend to put more lean muscle on over fat with my carbs coming mainly from sugar and keeping it relatively low fat. But when I maintain my weight I can get by with moderate amounts of dairy fat.

 

[aquaman]

@sladerunner69 from what I can recall (correct me if wrong) didn't you, like me, gorge on lots of dairy fat/ice cream? It seems (if that's true), we're starting to arrive at a point of commonality - That is, that dairy fat is virtually universally fattening. It definitely seems to me, that choices of food matter STRONGLY within a macronutrient.

Dairy fat plus juice is common for the “RP diet”. The ultimate bad combo to pack on weight.

 

[MatheusPN]

This has been my experience with full fat dairy as well. Also, full fat milk will add quite a bit of extra PUFA pretty quick if you’re already eating meat and eggs/other normal ‘Peat’ type foods. It’s good if you’re maybe trying to gain some weight, but even then I tend to just add more lean protein over fat when I want extra calories to gain more muscle, since protein is more thermogenic than fat. I think fat has its place in helping with digestion, but I don’t go overboard on it, especially when cutting or maintaining weight. I tend to do best on low fat, high carb, moderate to high protein for cutting fat weight. Fructose/sugar over starches has a dramatically different effect on me as well, with fat loss where I lean up more with calories coming from fruit/sugar over starches. It’s actually crazy with how fast I lean up once I cut down the fat and cut out starches. Funny how some claim to do better on starches. I’ve done very detailed low fat experiments but with starches and I still don’t lean out as well even on those. I think the insulin modulating effects of fructose in sugar is probably one likely benefits for me. And I tend to put more lean muscle on over fat with my carbs coming mainly from sugar and keeping it relatively low fat. But when I maintain my weight I can get by with moderate amounts of dairy fat.

I have a cheese, which have 5g of sfa and 1g of others... My only experience with high protein is from, Vegan protein like beans, not really good proteins... Except for potato
Lots of bowel movements, rare expelling of gas, correlates very well for my hunger, weight, temperature and less dairy/ starch

I feel better, improved and more androgenic eating: high sugar, low to medium protein and low fat, how more MCT I can tolerate the better
I used starch to reach 6000 to 8000 calories or 80g to 100 protein. On the days that I ate only sugar and chard, I felt great, the problem is that I end losing 2kg in a few days even reaching 8000 kcal with fruits or sugary and was tough to regain weight; this skirmish with weight lasted since I was kid and ended until some months ago
I am experimenting with dairy, I intend with heart and brain, this is recently, weight gain was a great surprise!

Anabolic: Dairy> Potato; Androgenic: Fruit> Potato> Dairy. Strength or power gains? Inconspicuous