Natalie Zimmerman: "The Woefully Misguided War On Carbohydrates"

Discussion in 'Articles & Scientific Studies' started by Westside PUFAs, May 12, 2016.

  1. Westside PUFAs

    Westside PUFAs Member

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    Natalie Zimmerman of McCarbthyism:

    "A channel devoted to promoting a scientific understanding of carbohydrates and their essential role in the human diet. We don't practice McCarbthyism, the irrational fear mongering that views our natural desire to eat carbohydrates as the primary reason for the epidemic of obesity and type-2 diabetes presently spreading worldwide. McCarbthyism is our name for the cult of carbohydrate paranoia infecting the nutrition community like a plague, not because of the evidence—for there is none—but because it creates such an easy target and tells such a good story. The real story of carbohydrates, however, is much more interesting when you follow the evidence. Explore our site and follow our blog to learn about starch and how it became a dirty word and how pottery played in the mind's big bang."

    McCarbthyism

    Not a vegan by the way, she likes lean animal protein.

    Natalie destroys paleo: The Paleo Ploy

    Her video on the Randle cycle: GlucoseFattyAcidCycleandInsulinResistance.mov

    Natalie combines art and science, like Peat:

    "Natalie Zimmerman is a self-taught artist who lives in Austin, Texas and specializes in scratchboard art. Her love of art is contiguous with her devotion to science. Natalie disagrees with the popular narrative that views science and art as stemming from different areas of the brain. She sees in each discipline the same basic characteristics, attention to detail, independence and freedom of thought and a deep understanding of the medium of expression. Her influences range from Caravaggio to Charles Darwin, from Leonardo da Vinci to Frans De Waal. She is interested in evolutionary themes and in exploring the relationship humans have with the environment, with other species, and with each other.

    Her background in the biological sciences, specifically her work in microbiology for which she holds a bachelor of science degree from the University of Texas at Austin and her graduate studies in immunology have given her a love for detail that marries well with the medium of scratchboard. Natalie sees science as a very powerful tool of exploration because it forces us to question our most basic assumptions and art as the ultimate expression of our conscience that forces us to look beyond our everyday experiences.

    Natalie Zimmerman is an active member of the International Society of Scratchboard Artists."

    Natalie_doing_scratchboard_4_photo.jpg

    Scratchboard Art by Natalie Zimmerman

    Smart-Fuel-Pyramid

    "Glycogen

    For all the talk of energy, appetite, satiety, and weight management, it is remarkable that so little attention is given to glycogen. Glycogen is your body's store of carbohydrate; glucose molecules clustered together like bunches of grapes, waiting to be plucked for energy whenever the need arises. Glycogen is stored in primarily in muscles, liver, and brain. Most of what the muscles do with glucose from blood is to make glycogen. The muscles utilize both fat and glucose for fuel. The more intense the movement, the more glycogen is called upon as a source of glucose molecules for energy. Muscles fueled with glycogen are ready to perform at their peak. When muscles are depleted of glycogen we hit the wall and must rely on fat for energy. Glycogen in the liver has a different but equally important purpose, to supply blood with glucose when dietary carbohydrates are absent or in short supply. But when glycogen is depleted, blood glucose must be made from scratch. Since you cannot convert stored fat to glucose, amino acids from muscle are sacrificed to make blood sugar. Thus, glycogen spares protein for its more important tasks. The brain, a glucose glutton, carries its own supply of glycogen in cells called astrocytes. In total, we carry less than days worth of energy in the form of glycogen, a fact that makes storing glycogen, a major consideration in satiety. Eat in a way to store glycogen efficiently, without having to force in an excess of kcals and healthy weight is within your reach without resorting to diet. And that leads us to the Smart Fuel Pyramid.

    An Unhealthy Assumption

    Glycemic index saturation has left a lingering assumption that is as damaging as it is misleading. We assume that when we burn glucose for energy, we do it directly from the blood stream as if cells that need energy pull glucose from the blood and burn it directly. That is simply not true. And this untruth is what completely undermines glycemic index as an important determinant of carbohydrate value. Suppose you are running a race along the banks of a river, a marathon, and periodically you need water. Would it make sense to kneel down at the bank of the river every time you needed a drink and then get back up again to continue the race Wouldn't it be more efficient to carry a bottle of water with you, a small one that could supply you with water as you were running? Then you could fill the bottle when it gets low, which wouldn't be nearly as often. Once you filled the bottle, you would be good to go for a long time without visiting the stream.

    Smart-Fuel-Pyramid

    One of the consequences of insulin resistance, the precursor to type-2 diabetes, is failure to store muscle glycogen efficiently. The result is a continuous craving for sugar leading to the erroneous notion that sugar is addictive and anything that raises insulin makes us fat. The simple truth is that when we lack sufficient boiled starch, we force the body to burn more free fatty acids for energy and hinder the muscles from responding to insulin. This fact is most evident in the discovery of the glucose-fatty acid cycle that demonstrates a suppression of glucose utilization in the presence of free fatty acids. The most efficient way to store glycogen without breaking the bank on calories is to follow the Smart Fuel Pyramid, the only guide that separates boiled starches as a distinct food group. By eating from the bottom up, starting with entrees made from a combination of boiled starches and lean proteins, efficient glycogen storage is guaranteed because muscles become more responsive to insulin.

    The list of potential entrees is extensive and varied including anything from steak and mashed potatoes to vegan staples like tofu, rice, and beans. Creating snacks and side dishes from the fruit and vegetable groups, expands the choices of healthy carbohydrates, along with added fiber and micronutrients. Sugars and baked starches complete the carbohydrate picture, but should be used in dessert proportions as desserts themselves or to flavor an entre or side dish. The same is true of fat-rich foods. We need healthy fats, nuts, oils, and even some dairy fats, depending on your preference. But they are high in calories and like sugars and baked starches, should be used in dessert portions or as flavorings. The energy-dense foods at the top of the pyramid are not bad foods. Nuts for example are an excellent source of essential fatty acids and supply valuable protein, along with other micronutrients. They are simply rich in calories and should be eaten with that in mind. Following The Smart Fuel Pyramid is the most efficient way to store energy as glycogen. That means you'll be satisfied without on reasonable portions of healthy foods, greatly increasing your chances at achieving a healthy weight without resorting to demoralizing diets.

    Once you understand the science and simple logic underlying boiled starch as an essential nutrient, it becomes necessary to reevaluate our present guidelines to see if they reflect this new reality. The quick answer to this query is a resounding no. Our present guidelines are inadequate because they ignore this critical food group. Let's take a look."
     
  2. Entropy

    Entropy Member

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    Nice, thanks for sharing
     
  3. tara

    tara Member

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    Thanks for this - interesting.

    I had not come across that explanation of properly gelatinised/wet-cooked starches performing that role of raising insulin sensitivity. It fits very well with how I have felt about food for much of my life - the thought of going to bed after a physically active day without a good feed of well-cooked starch somewhere in the day has seemed intolerable. Dry-baked starches would not be satisfying in the same way.

    I have tended to lump in baked and roasted potatoes (and sweet potatoes and yams) with the boiled and steamed starches, though. I wonder if maybe they contain enough water in themselves to allow at least some of the starch to cook properly, so that they can also at least partially fill this role?
    I also wonder whether there might also be at least a little of this effect in long-soaked moist breads - that is, there may be enough water in the dough to allow at least some of the starch grains to gelatinise properly, even if they are not the ideal form?

    As far as I can tell, Peat's concerns about persorption of starch granules only apply to raw starch or dry-cooked flour products.
     
  4. tara

    tara Member

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    Found what Natalie says about tubers:

    "Roots and tubers can be thrown into an open fire and cooked because they carry their own water. However, after gelatinization (which occurs as the water inherent in roots and tubers boils), the high temperatures and dry conditions of the fire drives off most of the water, shattering the starch chains (a process called dextrinization) converting the starch effectively to sugar. Still these foods would have been an important source of calories that helped our ancestors to avoid protein toxicity, something hunter-gatherers struggle with on a daily basis because protein cannot be the primary source of fuel for humans to the nitrogen byproducts generated when converting protein into fuel."
    Anthropology

    I'm not sure that I'm convinced that the dry heat on the outside of a baked potato would drive off enough of the water to dextrinise all the cooked starch on the inside.
     
  5. michael94

    michael94 Member

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    A large portion "Paleo" community is not really low carb anymore, they like potatoes/white rice and a few others for the resistant starch. Paul Jaminet was a big part of this but it's been trending that way for a while.

    The other thing is 90%+ of the meat people eat is not paleo. If it's not fresh and rich with glycogen + probiotic glycans it's not paleo in the slightest. And how often do "paleo" people eat fresh innards laced with bacteria? Basically never.

    Not to mention meat based diets are almost never using protein in any large quantity for fuel. I'm curious where she gets this idea of protein toxicity unless you're force feeding ridiculous amounts of protein. Carbs are important for different reasons ( myeloperoxidase immune function, glyogen during stress, various systems use glucose or lactate for fuel ( glucose and lactate can be converted back and forth ), et cetera. Overall she makes some good points relevant to prolonged low carb dieting.
     
  6. NathanK

    NathanK Member

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    Pretty sure Westside PUFA just fell in love

    I think I went to school with her
    Very interesting. Worth looking into further
     
  7. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Why sticky boiled starch?
     
  8. tyw

    tyw Member

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    Yeah, I'm not convinced, 'Structural changes in starch granules of low moisture content during heating', (Takahashi et. al., 1982) -- Structural Changes in Starch Granules of Low Moisture Content during Heating

    You're seeing temperatures of >150C before the process even begins to occur. Your potato would have to be burnt to a crisp :arghh: for a substantial amount of the starch you consume to be dextrinized.

    ...
     
  9. James IV

    James IV Member

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    So she thinks we should eat all three macronutrients from a variety of nutritious foods in appropriate amounts for the individual? What a concept.
     
  10. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    :ss2
     
  11. tyw

    tyw Member

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    And while I agree that "glucose is glucose" when a food is thoroughly digested, "Starch" is too broad a term as I discussed here -- Fructose Alters Brain Genes Negatively. How To Counter This From Peat Perspective?

    To add further detail, I'll take an excerpt from a private conversation.

    ----START----

    Short grain rice and "waxy" potatoes contain more amylopectin (and up to 100% amylopectin in Glutinous rice, and no it has nothing to do with gluten).

    As for amylopectin vs amylose, they basically compose of glucose only, but the glycosidic bond between the glucose units of amylopectin are in such a way that make Amylopectin water-soluble, which amylose is not. This is why waxy potatoes are "waxy" and "sticky" to water.

    Back to the Haidut rule of thumb, "Fast Digestion Speed", the relative amount of Amylose and Amylopectin in a food affects digestion speed, and some other important factors.

    In barley, more Amylopectin means LESS resistant starch (good, since resistant starch is a potential endotoxin cultivator) -- Glucose and insulin responses to barley products: influence of food structure and amylose-amylopectin ratio.

    Same for potatoes -- Resistant starch formation in temperature treated potato starches varying in amylose/amylopectin ratio

    The line with high amylose content contained 25–30% RS vs. in the range of 0–5% for the other starches.

    This is a big difference, which is why I say that not all "Starch" is the same.


    Another thing to note, is that there will be a lot more Insulin required to process High Amylopectin substances:
    - The effect of amylose content on insulin and glucose responses to ingested rice.
    - Interaction between physical structure and amylose:amylopectin ratio of foods on postprandial... - Abstract - Europe PMC
    - Diets containing high amylose vs amylopectin starch: effects on metabolic variables in human subjects.

    This is exactly to be expected, since amylopectin digests way quicker. (All the above studies are human studies BTW, so I think it is representative of actual consumption habits)

    Would someone who is not very insulin sensitive suffer blood glucose dys-regulation from eating too much amylopectin at once? Possibly.

    However, the combination of some fat and high amylopectin foods also reduces both insulin spikes and total insulin release. Sticky rice with coconut oil, Waxy potatoes with butter, etc .... are all "safer starch" and lower insulin food items.

    The frequency of meals also counts for something. Peat would recommend smaller and more frequent meals.


    ----END----
     
  12. tara

    tara Member

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    I imagine there'd be a difference between crisps - with very little water left in them - and what the Nth Americans call french fries, which are clearly still moist inside.

    I think she is crucially saying there are four macronutrients to eat - distinguishes gelatinised starch from sugars (and dextrinized starches).
     
  13. James IV

    James IV Member

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    Yes, I suppose that she is saying that. But is this really news to anyone? Every athlete and bodybuilder I know prefers starch to replenish muscle glygogen, with a smaller amount of sugar for the liver, simply because it's most efficient. That's even how post workout recovery drinks are formulated.
     
  14. Makrosky

    Makrosky Member

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    LOOOL! Spot on.
     
  15. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

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    Is that why they have high-fructose corn syrup? :cool
     
  16. tca300

    tca300 Member

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    They probably prefer starch because their liver is shot from all the drugs and aromatase inhibitors they take, so the fructose isn't as quickly turned into glucose or glycogen as it should be with a healthy liver. I work out a lot, and eating rice or potatoes while working out or afterwards is not something my body asks for. OJ or Pepsi every time!
     
  17. lollipop

    lollipop Guest

    :yeahthat
     
  18. tyler

    tyler Member

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    Your insight on this forum has been so valuable to me- thanks for all the effort you put into your posts dude.
    Had a question regarding rice types and amylopectin/amylose content. Do you know what types of rice have the highest amylopectin content and the lowest amylose? I've always sought out to find rice with the least amount of fiber (jasmine) as I figured it was the easiest to digest. But I take that fiber content and amylose/amylopectin amount are noncorrelative.
     
  19. Ledo

    Ledo Member

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    Her food choices and method of preparation are highly similar to The Perfect Health Diet by Paul Jaminet and wife.

    Assuming she is not recommending a high protein macronutrient component, (over 25% which would be bad), she differs from the Perfect health diet by recommending lean meats low in fat thereby indirectly favoring a higher carb ratio percentage than Paul recommends.

    Where Paul might be 50% 25% 25% or 45% 20% 35% Carbs, protein, fat she would be 60% 25% 15% as they swap carbs for fat calories and vice versa. I see nothing revolutionary with her diet. It still comes down to how you feel about fructose vs. glucose, an old debate on this forum.
     
  20. jaguar43

    jaguar43 Member

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    I am not sure if that belief is due to the cultural conditioning or unbiased objective experimentation. One of the mechanisms in which starch could be helpful is the spike in insulin afterwords. But I am not sure if the role of insulin has been overplayed. Ray Peat seems to think so in the context of diabetes. Fructose can provide oxidative metabolism even in the presence of free fatty acids that inhibit glucose.

    One of the points at which fatty acids suppress the use of glucose is at the point at which it is converted into fructose, in the process of glycolysis. When fructose is available, it can by-pass this barrier to the use of glucose, and continue to provide pyruvic acid for continuing oxidative metabolism, and if the mitochondria themselves aren't providing sufficient energy, it can leave the cell as lactate, allowing continuing glycolytic energy production. - Ray Peat

    If fructose can by-pass the fatty acids' inhibition of glucose metabolism, to be oxidized when glucose can't, and if the metabolism of diabetes involves the oxidation of fatty acids instead of glucose, then we would expect there to be less than the normal amount of fructose in the serum of diabetics, although their defining trait is the presence of an increased amount of glucose. According to Osuagwu and Madumere (2008), that is the case. If a fructose deficiency exists in diabetes, then it is appropriate to supplement it in the diet. - Ray Peat

    Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.