Insulin Resistance Is Caused By Elevated Fatty Acids (FFA)

[Mito]

Would the cell have arrived at said energy overload without insulin forcing it?

Of course it’s possible for a cell to become overloaded with energy from glucose. But is also possible for the cell to become overloaded with energy from fat. Both result in the cell deciding to “ingnore” insulin for its own good. Another possibility is the cell’s inability to process whatever energy substrate it has available (glucose, fat or protein) efficiently. Cells can just as easily be overloaded with energy when the mitochondria (specifically Krebs Cycle and ETC) are not functioning optimally. Many things can cause suboptimal mitochondrial function and elevated free fatty acids is one of them.[/QUOTE]

 

[rei]

...

>doubling down against sugar

Sugar is not very insulin provoking, so no, they're not approaching it from this angle.

>I’d be very interested in the claims that sat fat overloads don’t make you fat, only raise metabolism up

Ray peat himself has written many times how animals fed only saturated fat get high metabolism, become lean and resistant to disease.

>the part on brown fat from ketones when we all know how detrimental a ketogenic diet is

Intermittent Fasting Promotes White Adipose Browning and Decreases Obesity by Shaping the Gut Microbiota. - PubMed - NCBI A Ketogenic Diet Increases Brown Adipose Tissue Mitochondrial Proteins and UCP1 Levels in Mice I even remember that some supplement/medicine did the same thing, acting through the same receptor as ketones do, but the specifics escape me at this moment.

>oxidative damage

purely my speculation for why large cells are unhealthy but same amount of weight through increased number of fat cells is not.

>1000kcal diet making people fat

yeah, i don't think we will see a study about this anytime soon But it is common knowledge among doctors that starting insulin will make the patient gain weight. As will cortisol. here are two well sourced write-ups on this: A Closer Look at Cortisol Insulin and Weight Gain - Hormonal Obesity to make it happen with 1000kcal all that needs to be ensured is very high insulin to force the food into fat, and high cortisol so they can effectively burn muscle between the meals instead of falling into hypoglycemic coma.

...

When blood sugar rises the cell takes in what it wants. Insulin is used to "force" it to take in more and start secondary processes. When it becomes too sick for this it responds with insulin resistance.

 

[Sourdoughbanana]

Sugar is not very insulin provoking, so no, they're not approaching it from this angle.

They do! That’s the worst part. Glycemic indexes thrown around when we know they mean jack ***t

I’d need to do more reading on Ray and sat fats; I believe it’s “fat is only saturated” as opposed to feeding them PUFAs. He isn’t advocating a high fat diet at all.

Alright that’s an interesting part about the ketogenic diet. How about what Atkins himself said:

“prolonged low-carb dieting tends to shut down thyroid function (...) diagnosis is made on clinical grounds with the presence of fatigue, sluggishness, dry skin, coarse or falling hair, an elevation in cholesterol, or a low body temperature.”

For the last point, indeed using corticosteroids and/or insulin are going to wreak havoc on people health. But that’s not what happens naturally - it’s the beauty of big pharma propaganda. Funny because I’m part of that system as a doctor in pharmacy myself. I can’t wait to be older and perfectly independent - working on it.

By the way: blood sugar rises for a reason, of which insulin is only a minor component as per Peat. I’d take a much closer look at potassium and magnesium deficiencies relative to sodium and calcium/phosphorus... other toxins like iron overload, maybe retinol, endotoxin... flour/starch/grain excess on top of high levels of fatty acids... just like cholesterol is only one among 20ish markers, insulin is only a minor part of a multifactorial equation

 

[Hans]

Ray peat himself has written many times how animals fed only saturated fat get high metabolism, become lean and resistant to disease

Peat said that about coconut oil, not all fats. Coconut oil is 50% lauric acid which is oxidized about 4 times as fast as palmitic acid. I bet there will be a difference between coconut oil overfeeding and butter overfeeding in term of fat gained.

purely my speculation for why large cells are unhealthy but same amount of weight through increased number of fat cells is not.

PUFAs and endotoxins cause inflammation, which increases adipocyte cell size. Feeding coconut oil or cocoa results in smaller adipocytes and most of the time less fat mass too, because they lower endotoxins and inflammation. Interestingly, leptin also increases fat cell size.

yeah, i don't think we will see a study about this anytime soon But it is common knowledge among doctors that starting insulin will make the patient gain weight. As will cortisol. here are two well sourced write-ups on this: A Closer Look at Cortisol Insulin and Weight Gain - Hormonal Obesity to make it happen with 1000kcal all that needs to be ensured is very high insulin to force the food into fat, and high cortisol so they can effectively burn muscle between the meals instead of falling into hypoglycemic coma.

Peat has talked about people who can maintain weight on 7-800 calories due to a high PUFA diet. PUFAs cause hyperinsulinemia and increase cortisol. Saturated fat is the opposite. I don't think one can get fat on 1000cal diet when very low PUFA is consumed.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Peat said that about coconut oil, not all fats. Coconut oil is 50% lauric acid which is oxidized about 4 times as fast as palmitic acid. I bet there will be a difference between coconut oil overfeeding and butter overfeeding in term of fat gained.

PUFAs and endotoxins cause inflammation, which increases adipocyte cell size. Feeding coconut oil or cocoa results in smaller adipocytes and most of the time less fat mass too, because they lower endotoxins and inflammation.

Peat has talked about people who can maintain weight on 7-800 calories due to a high PUFA diet. PUFAs cause hyperinsulinemia and increase cortisol. Saturated fat is the opposite. I don't think one can get fat on 1000cal diet when very low PUFA is consumed.

You Said "Cocoa"

As in Raw Powder? Cocoa Butter?

 

[Hans]

You Said "Cocoa"

As in Raw Powder? Cocoa Butter?

The study used cocoa powder. Raypeatclips made a thread about that study. The butter could also work as it also lower endotoxins, but I think the whole food would be best at lowering inflammation and endotoxins, while providing lots of nutrients.

 

[Broken man]

I started to read suppversity articles alot and found this, I did not understand it like I want to but what do you think about this? Liver Enzymes the #1 Marker of Insulin Resistance!? What Do HbA1C & ALT, AST and GPT Tell Us About Diabesity? - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone
I am very curious about the fact that FFA did not correlate with insulin resistence. I will mark some members, hope its not problem to take some of their time. Thank you. @haidut , @Hans , @Amazoniac

 

[Hans]

The liver is very important when it comes to insulin resistance and should be taken care of, but it's never just one thing that is the cause of it all, but all are interconnected. For instance, you can block excess lipolysis, but then you still need to lean out the liver health. You can start to heal the liver, but might still have to block excess lipolysis too to get maximum results.
For instance, niacinamide lowers FFA and improves glucose disposal and is also very liver protective: Low Dose Niacinamide Prevents NAFLD / Cirrhosis

 

[Dobbler]

The liver is very important when it comes to insulin resistance and should be taken care of, but it's never just one thing that is the cause of it all, but all are interconnected. For instance, you can block excess lipolysis, but then you still need to lean out the liver health. You can start to heal the liver, but might still have to block excess lipolysis too to get maximum results.
For instance, niacinamide lowers FFA and improves glucose disposal and is also very liver protective: Low Dose Niacinamide Prevents NAFLD / Cirrhosis

Good to have you back on the forum Hans, you bring alot of valuable information here.

 

[Hans]

Good to have you back on the forum Hans, you bring alot of valuable information here.

Thank man. Here is too much goodness going on here to skip :)

 

[success23]

So will low fat diet and healthy insulin levels be enough to revere insulin resistant state?

 

[nbznj]

Eating multiple high GI meals with processed proteins that absorb quickly is the way to get high insulin. Fats have almost zero insulin response (and they delay sugar/protein absorption), and are largely stored as triglycerides as long as insulin is high. FFA elevates when insulin goes down.

My own theory is that high GI foods cause dramatic insulin response that overshoots, which leads to low blood glucose once the food is processed. This leads to compensatory actions (insulin sensitivity downregulation) to prevent it in the future. If you become hungry/crave sugar an hour after eating you can assume this is happening to you.

Unfortunately all of this is wrong, from the GI theory to the macro response to the FFA/trigs assessments. I do agree that the study in the OP was absolute trash ofc

Insulin resistance is caused by excess calories from any macro. GI is irrelevant, has always been and will always be. Guyenet demonstrates it here thoroughly

References for my debate with Gary Taubes on The Joe Rogan Experience

Sorry for the harsh tone, but it’s not a matter of thinking or believing. The pathway is well known, and it’s deceptively simple, boring, and not sexy.