Peat Has No Understanding Of Glycolysis

[Dante]

I don't know about XYZ but Constantine and theLaw are ignorant ***** that's for sure.

It's funny to see people trying to teach you health and diet when reading their posts one can have serious doubts about the state of their health.

??

 

[Wagner83]

??

The first part is joshing if that's what you're asking.

 

[Constatine]

All constructive debates start with "XYZ has no understanding of.............."

I don't know about XYZ but Constantine and theLaw are ignorant ***** that's for sure.

It's funny to see people trying to teach you health and diet when reading their posts one can have serious doubts about the state of their health.

XYZ is quite the moron.

 

[Xisca]

Can we debate about understanding glycolisis -or whatever we do not understand- without such a title as " x has no understanding of..."

People with scientific knowledge tend to make short cuts when they speak.
It is not that they do not understand, but that WE do not understand them!
We can conclude that s.b. has no understanding,

but man, ...may be not put it in the title!
Then we will see the conclusion: Wrong or wrong way to explain?

 

[Xisca]

I think RP makes short-cuts we do not understand, because I have had discussions with a biology teacher, and I could not understand, and now I think it is because I thought after reading Peat that oxidative metabolism and glycolisis were one or the other, and they are not.

yet the man can't communicate how and when it's formed.

About communication, that's right, but he cannot make a biology course, and we have to know a lot before we can understand what he says or other say!

I had also understood bad at the beginning.

 

[Constatine]

I think RP makes short-cuts we do not understand, because I have had discussions with a biology teacher, and I could not understand, and now I think it is because I thought after reading Peat that oxidative metabolism and glycolisis were one or the other, and they are not.

Totally. He says what he means but implies very little. Because of this people often take him out of context. He really has become to big for his own good. One not in the same mindset as Peat can wreck havock on their health by listening to him.

 

[Xisca]

Quote from Wikipedia: In oncology, the Warburg effect is the observation that most cancer cells predominantly produce energy by a high rate of glycolysis followed by lactic acid fermentation in the cytosol,[4][5] rather than by a comparatively low rate of glycolysis followed by oxidation of pyruvate in mitochondria as in most normal cells.

Again, DuggaDugga, where do you get aerobic glycolysis from this statement? You just redefined the Warburg Effect.

I had also understood Peat said there could be defective aerobic glycolisis instead of only anaerobic glycolisis...

Since lactic acid is produced by the breakdown of glucose, a high level of lactate in the blood means that a large amount of sugar is being consumed; in response, the body mobilizes free fatty acids as an additional source of energy. An increase of free fatty acids suppresses the oxidation of glucose.

But I cannot believe this increase in FA would be permanent...
And I understand the emergency for the body. And I can understand that I like fats, as fats are burned without ever producing lactic acid!

But doesn't it mean the problem is not that sugar is consummed, but that it is not oxidized in the mitochondria?

This I want to understand: why the body prefers to not oxydize but get less energy and make lactate?
I know the body do what it does for a GOOD reason!
(at least at first, because then it can go on something useless just because the change is difficult and must be supported)

Colin, except I would change the title, by mere respect even if anyone is wrong, I agree this is good to have the right understanding of what happens.
I would like to stop having lactate burns!!!!

 

[schultz]

RAY PEAT: Yah. Looking at us in our environment, we are really sort of sandwiched between the sugar energy we get from plants and the carbon dioxide that we make as the final product of the energy from the sugar. A series of changes in the sugar molecule, each oxidation of that molecule adds a little chemical energy to the cell, that the cell can use to make proteins. As it degrades the sugar, it builds up amino acids and proteins and fats. When you are unable to oxidize the sugar all the way down to carbon dioxide, and produce lactic acid instead, halfway, you are losing the greatest part of the energy stored in the glucose molecule. And that lack of energy has its repercussions. But when there is really a lack of oxygen to continue the oxidation, that NADH, which allowed pyruvic acid to take this shortcut off into the semi-toxic lactic acid, that has to be renewed before you can even make another lactic acid. So, without oxygen, you need some kind of oxidant to even continue producing that kind of low energy from the sugar to pyruvate and lactic acid. And to do that, cells can produce fat and get rid of their electrons by building them into fat. So building fat in a way is an alternative (very bad one) to using up oxygen and making CO2. So, interestingly, cancers, which get stuck in the exclusive use of converting glucose or amino acids to lactic acid as their energy supply, they also get stuck making fat. Fat becomes their oxygen in effect. And then, when they still have mitochondrial function, the cell burns fat as its energy. So it's really a deranged and crazy kind of metabolism to produce an irritant lactic acid, and to do that it has to make fat which is then used as fuel with its own consequences.

JOHN BARKHAUSEN: That's called glycolysis?

RAY PEAT: It's aerobic glycolysis when you make lactic acid in the presence of oxygen, and ordinary anaerobic glycolysis is what happens when you exercise too hard. You can build up lactic acid in getting out of breath. The blood lactate increases if you exercise faster than you're breathing, and that's normal. You can a little later consume and oxidize the lactic acid and that's OK. But when you start producing lactic acid even in the presence of oxygen, as in the case of cancer, or extreme trauma or shock, the same thing happens; something turns the trigger, so that even though oxygen is present in shock, you will waste your sugar and make lactic acid.

JOHN BARKHAUSEN: I see; oxygen is there but you are unable to use it.

 

[Xisca]

But when you start producing lactic acid even in the presence of oxygen, as in the case of cancer, or extreme trauma or shock, the same thing happens; something turns the trigger, so that even though oxygen is present in shock, you will waste your sugar and make lactic acid.

Yeah, that is what I read, but did not know enough. It can be me all my life because of permanent stress in utero, from chemicals, so for sure something was closing itself in my cells!

But what Peat says is not enough to understand WHY it goes on, and how to persuade the cell to burn properly in the mitochondria!
What is blocking?

 

[Simba1992]

Yeah, that is what I read, but did not know enough. It can be me all my life because of permanent stress in utero, from chemicals, so for sure something was closing itself in my cells!

But what Peat says is not enough to understand WHY it goes on, and how to persuade the cell to burn properly in the mitochondria!
What is blocking?

Interesting would be to know! I wonder if this is what happens in fact in RA where lactic acid seemes to be chronicly produced (?)

 

[Xisca]

Interesting would be to know! I wonder if this is what happens in fact in RA where lactic acid seemes to be chronicly produced (?)

RA? ? translation please!

Yes I seem to chronically produce, and feel it unless I move, but not too much or else I create more! ...and I feel it only later...

 

[DuggaDugga]

I had also understood Peat said there could be defective aerobic glycolisis instead of only anaerobic glycolisis...


But I cannot believe this increase in FA would be permanent...
And I understand the emergency for the body. And I can understand that I like fats, as fats are burned without ever producing lactic acid!

But doesn't it mean the problem is not that sugar is consummed, but that it is not oxidized in the mitochondria?

This I want to understand: why the body prefers to not oxydize but get less energy and make lactate?
I know the body do what it does for a GOOD reason!
(at least at first, because then it can go on something useless just because the change is difficult and must be supported)

Colin, except I would change the title, by mere respect even if anyone is wrong, I agree this is good to have the right understanding of what happens.
I would like to stop having lactate burns!!!!

Check out this short podcast. Chris Masterjohn does a great job explaining it: Why We Make Lactic Acid | MWM Energy Metabolism Cliff Notes #15
It even touches on anapleurosis, which will provide insight on why we can't just run on fats.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

The overall reaction of glycolysis is:

D-Glucose




+ 2 [NAD]+
+ 2 [ADP]
+ 2 [P]i








2 × Pyruvate

2 ×


+ 2 [NADH]
+ 2 H+
+ 2 [ATP]
+ 2 H2O
The use of symbols in this equation makes it appear unbalanced with respect to oxygen atoms, hydrogen atoms, and charges. Atom balance is maintained by the two phosphate (Pi) groups:[9]

• Each exists in the form of a hydrogen phosphate anion (HPO42−), dissociating to contribute 2 H+ overall
• Each liberates an oxygen atom when it binds to an ADP (adenosine diphosphate) molecule, contributing 2 O overall

Charges are balanced by the difference between ADP and ATP. In the cellular environment, all three hydroxyl groups of ADP dissociate into −O− and H+, giving ADP3−, and this ion tends to exist in an ionic bond with Mg2+, giving ADPMg−. ATP behaves identically except that it has four hydroxyl groups, giving ATPMg2−. When these differences along with the true charges on the two phosphate groups are considered together, the net charges of −4 on each side are balanced.

For simple fermentations, the metabolism of one molecule of glucose to two molecules of pyruvate has a net yield of two molecules of ATP. Most cells will then carry out further reactions to 'repay' the used NAD+ and produce a final product of ethanol or lactic acid. Many bacteria use inorganic compounds as hydrogen acceptors to regenerate the NAD+.

Cells performing aerobic respiration synthesize much more ATP, but not as part of glycolysis. These further aerobic reactions use pyruvate and NADH + H+ from glycolysis. Eukaryotic aerobic respiration produces approximately 34 additional molecules of ATP for each glucose molecule, however most of these are produced by a vastly different mechanism to the substrate-level phosphorylation in glycolysis.

The lower-energy production, per glucose, of anaerobic respiration relative to aerobic respiration, results in greater flux through the pathway under hypoxic (low-oxygen) conditions, unless alternative sources of anaerobically oxidizable substrates, such as fatty acids, are found.​

From wikipedia of all places.

 

[Colin Nordstrom]

Sorry if I killed someone's sacred cow here. RP may understand glycolysis perfectly, but I judge people by what they write and say. If you state countlessly that glycolysis is anaerobic, you're not stating a fact, and your understanding is lacking. Why are the details not important here? They are to me, but apparently they aren't important to the people attacking me. Gurus, even God Peat, need to be questioned. That's all I was doing.

 

[Kyle M]

Everyone that's been around Peat stuff long enough knows that he has been using the term glycolysis to mean anaerobic lactate formation. I believe this is an historical term, like if some really old person called vitamins "vital amines."

 

[Simba1992]

RA? ? translation please!

Yes I seem to chronically produce, and feel it unless I move, but not too much or else I create more! ...and I feel it only later...

Sorry, rheumathoid arthritis= RA. Feels like lactic acid accumulating just by being still! Morning stiffness and muscle pain feels like saturated with lactic acid

 

[Xisca]

Sorry, rheumathoid arthritis= RA. Feels like lactic acid accumulating just by being still! Morning stiffness and muscle pain feels like saturated with lactic acid

Yes I need to move.
arthritis is not about joints and cartilage? Well I have no swelling nor change in my joints.

Interesting would be to know! I wonder if this is what happens in fact in RA where lactic acid seemes to be chronicly produced (?)

Found nothing about it...

 

[Colin Nordstrom]

Seems like we are dealing with semantics. If Ray has an unconventional definition so be it. However, it makes it confusing from someone outside this sphere to get a handle on his meaning.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Everyone that's been around Peat stuff long enough knows that he has been using the term glycolysis to mean anaerobic lactate formation. I believe this is an historical term, like if some really old person called vitamins "vital amines."

this lol

why this thread under "Science"

 

[cats]

That's right. It's not uncommon for "glycolysis" to be used as a shorthand for "glycolysis that leads to lactic acid fermentation." For example, the type of muscle fibers which perform a great deal of lactic acid fermentation are called "glycolytic fibers."