The Randle Effect In Action (human Study)

tara

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Many biochemical process happen at optimal rates only at optimal body temp, faster at higher temps, and slower at lower temps. I think Peat considers 99 deg F to be approx optimal, and current lower norms as reflecting the commonness of slightly hypothyroid states?
Generating extra heat might be a problem in a food shortage (hence adaptively reduced metabolism in famine conditions). If there is plenty of fuel, then doesn't Peat suggest that 'wasting' some of it to maintain higher temps (without getting dangerously high) and higher CO2 flow and higher overall flow of energy is helpful for optimally maintaining both structure and processes?
 

jaguar43

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RPDiciple said:
jag2594 said:
A lot of Ray Peat followers believe if they suppress Free Fatty acids with aspirin or niacinamide. They won't be able to lose weight. And yet study after study shows that free fatty acids can cause type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance, which is associated with central obesity.

Bromocriptine is a perfect example of lowering free fatty acids and other diabetes causing chemicals to reverse type 2 diabetes and lower body fat.

I guess the cultural cliches induced by the low carb ideology is going to take a lot longer to disappear. Even within this forum and others alike.

lovely. But want high doses of niacinamide inhibit some fat loss?

Depends how your losing weight. If your low carbing then it will, but thats not efficient. If you are raising your metabolic rate then it shouldn't matter if your on niacinamide or not. However Raising your metabolic rate for fat loss is pretty complex. ( as least it was for me)

I actually had some blood work recently, and my alkaline phosphatase was high. Which was very interesting. I think it was the niacinamide.
 

RPDiciple

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jag2594 said:
RPDiciple said:
jag2594 said:
A lot of Ray Peat followers believe if they suppress Free Fatty acids with aspirin or niacinamide. They won't be able to lose weight. And yet study after study shows that free fatty acids can cause type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance, which is associated with central obesity.

Bromocriptine is a perfect example of lowering free fatty acids and other diabetes causing chemicals to reverse type 2 diabetes and lower body fat.

I guess the cultural cliches induced by the low carb ideology is going to take a lot longer to disappear. Even within this forum and others alike.

lovely. But want high doses of niacinamide inhibit some fat loss?

Depends how your losing weight. If your low carbing then it will, but thats not efficient. If you are raising your metabolic rate then it shouldn't matter if your on niacinamide or not. However Raising your metabolic rate for fat loss is pretty complex. ( as least it was for me)

I actually had some blood work recently, and my alkaline phosphatase was high. Which was very interesting. I think it was the niacinamide.

Hmm, ok.

I remember asking RP about it in terms of niacinamide and loosing fat. This is his reply

RP: "In a moderate amount, such as 150 mg/day, it will reduce the stress and help the liver to excrete some fatty acids."
 
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haidut

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jag2594 said:
RPDiciple said:
jag2594 said:
A lot of Ray Peat followers believe if they suppress Free Fatty acids with aspirin or niacinamide. They won't be able to lose weight. And yet study after study shows that free fatty acids can cause type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance, which is associated with central obesity.

Bromocriptine is a perfect example of lowering free fatty acids and other diabetes causing chemicals to reverse type 2 diabetes and lower body fat.

I guess the cultural cliches induced by the low carb ideology is going to take a lot longer to disappear. Even within this forum and others alike.

lovely. But want high doses of niacinamide inhibit some fat loss?

Depends how your losing weight. If your low carbing then it will, but thats not efficient. If you are raising your metabolic rate then it shouldn't matter if your on niacinamide or not. However Raising your metabolic rate for fat loss is pretty complex. ( as least it was for me)

I actually had some blood work recently, and my alkaline phosphatase was high. Which was very interesting. I think it was the niacinamide.

Niacinamide depletes methionine. Check this thread out:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3092&p=50931&hilit=niacinamide+choline#p36768

The Wikipedia page says that niacinamide in dosed of 3g+ daily has been shown to elevate liver enzymes in SOME people, so this could be the mechanism behind it. Btw, elevated enzymes are not always a bad thing. I think Hoffer said that it is a symptom of the liver flushing junk out.
 

jaguar43

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haidut said:
jag2594 said:
RPDiciple said:
jag2594 said:
A lot of Ray Peat followers believe if they suppress Free Fatty acids with aspirin or niacinamide. They won't be able to lose weight. And yet study after study shows that free fatty acids can cause type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance, which is associated with central obesity.

Bromocriptine is a perfect example of lowering free fatty acids and other diabetes causing chemicals to reverse type 2 diabetes and lower body fat.
I guess the cultural cliches induced by the low carb ideology is going to take a lot longer to disappear. Even within this forum and others alike.

lovely. But want high doses of niacinamide inhibit some fat loss?

Depends how your losing weight. If your low carbing then it will, but thats not efficient. If you are raising your metabolic rate then it shouldn't matter if your on niacinamide or not. However Raising your metabolic rate for fat loss is pretty complex. ( as least it was for me)

I actually had some blood work recently, and my alkaline phosphatase was high. Which was very interesting. I think it was the niacinamide.

Niacinamide depletes methionine. Check this thread out:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3092&p=50931&hilit=niacinamide+choline#p36768

The Wikipedia page says that niacinamide in dosed of 3g+ daily has been shown to elevate liver enzymes in SOME people, so this could be the mechanism behind it. Btw, elevated enzymes are not always a bad thing. I think Hoffer said that it is a symptom of the liver flushing junk out.

The alkaline phosphatase enzyme is an enzyme to remove phosphate from the body. According to Wikipedia, which is exactly what ray peat recommends.


Alkaline phosphatase (ALP, ALKP, ALPase, Alk Phos) (EC 3.1.3.1) is a hydrolase enzyme responsible for removing phosphate groups from many types of molecules, including nucleotides, proteins, and alkaloids. The process of removing the phosphate group is called dephosphorylation. As the name suggests, alkaline phosphatases are most effective in an alkaline environment. It is sometimes used synonymously as basic phosphatase.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_phosphatase

I have been doing four grams a day for almost a year. But I like keeping metabolic rate high and it helps with floaters. So I don't recommend that dosage long term for anyone.
 
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haidut

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jag2594 said:
haidut said:
jag2594 said:
RPDiciple said:
jag2594 said:
A lot of Ray Peat followers believe if they suppress Free Fatty acids with aspirin or niacinamide. They won't be able to lose weight. And yet study after study shows that free fatty acids can cause type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance, which is associated with central obesity.

Bromocriptine is a perfect example of lowering free fatty acids and other diabetes causing chemicals to reverse type 2 diabetes and lower body fat.
I guess the cultural cliches induced by the low carb ideology is going to take a lot longer to disappear. Even within this forum and others alike.

lovely. But want high doses of niacinamide inhibit some fat loss?

Depends how your losing weight. If your low carbing then it will, but thats not efficient. If you are raising your metabolic rate then it shouldn't matter if your on niacinamide or not. However Raising your metabolic rate for fat loss is pretty complex. ( as least it was for me)

I actually had some blood work recently, and my alkaline phosphatase was high. Which was very interesting. I think it was the niacinamide.

Niacinamide depletes methionine. Check this thread out:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3092&p=50931&hilit=niacinamide+choline#p36768

The Wikipedia page says that niacinamide in dosed of 3g+ daily has been shown to elevate liver enzymes in SOME people, so this could be the mechanism behind it. Btw, elevated enzymes are not always a bad thing. I think Hoffer said that it is a symptom of the liver flushing junk out.

The alkaline phosphatase enzyme is an enzyme to remove phosphate from the body. According to Wikipedia, which is exactly what ray peat recommends.


Alkaline phosphatase (ALP, ALKP, ALPase, Alk Phos) (EC 3.1.3.1) is a hydrolase enzyme responsible for removing phosphate groups from many types of molecules, including nucleotides, proteins, and alkaloids. The process of removing the phosphate group is called dephosphorylation. As the name suggests, alkaline phosphatases are most effective in an alkaline environment. It is sometimes used synonymously as basic phosphatase.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_phosphatase

I have been doing four grams a day for almost a year. But I like keeping metabolic rate high and it helps with floaters. So I don't recommend that dosage long term for anyone.

Did you read the "Diagnostic Use" section?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_p ... nostic_use

Look at the first listed reason under Elevated Levels - billiary obstruction. So, you probably don't want to have elevated ALP even though the test on its own does not mean much. However, elevated ALP together with elevation of ANY of the other liver enzymes would warrant attention as possible hepatic condition.
 

jaguar43

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haidut said:
jag2594 said:
haidut said:
jag2594 said:
RPDiciple said:
jag2594 said:
A lot of Ray Peat followers believe if they suppress Free Fatty acids with aspirin or niacinamide. They won't be able to lose weight. And yet study after study shows that free fatty acids can cause type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance, which is associated with central obesity.

Bromocriptine is a perfect example of lowering free fatty acids and other diabetes causing chemicals to reverse type 2 diabetes and lower body fat.
I guess the cultural cliches induced by the low carb ideology is going to take a lot longer to disappear. Even within this forum and others alike.

lovely. But want high doses of niacinamide inhibit some fat loss?

Depends how your losing weight. If your low carbing then it will, but thats not efficient. If you are raising your metabolic rate then it shouldn't matter if your on niacinamide or not. However Raising your metabolic rate for fat loss is pretty complex. ( as least it was for me)

I actually had some blood work recently, and my alkaline phosphatase was high. Which was very interesting. I think it was the niacinamide.

Niacinamide depletes methionine. Check this thread out:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3092&p=50931&hilit=niacinamide+choline#p36768

The Wikipedia page says that niacinamide in dosed of 3g+ daily has been shown to elevate liver enzymes in SOME people, so this could be the mechanism behind it. Btw, elevated enzymes are not always a bad thing. I think Hoffer said that it is a symptom of the liver flushing junk out.

The alkaline phosphatase enzyme is an enzyme to remove phosphate from the body. According to Wikipedia, which is exactly what ray peat recommends.


Alkaline phosphatase (ALP, ALKP, ALPase, Alk Phos) (EC 3.1.3.1) is a hydrolase enzyme responsible for removing phosphate groups from many types of molecules, including nucleotides, proteins, and alkaloids. The process of removing the phosphate group is called dephosphorylation. As the name suggests, alkaline phosphatases are most effective in an alkaline environment. It is sometimes used synonymously as basic phosphatase.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_phosphatase

I have been doing four grams a day for almost a year. But I like keeping metabolic rate high and it helps with floaters. So I don't recommend that dosage long term for anyone.

Did you read the "Diagnostic Use" section?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaline_p ... nostic_use

Look at the first listed reason under Elevated Levels - billiary obstruction. So, you probably don't want to have elevated ALP even though the test on its own does not mean much. However, elevated ALP together with elevation of ANY of the other liver enzymes would warrant attention as possible hepatic condition.

Thats funny because the doctor that I saw said my liver was fine by looking at the blood work. I may need a new doctor because he missed this. :lol:

Just because it can be use to diagnosis liver malfunction or other diseases still doesn't take away from its function. It's probably one mechanism that the sick cell does in order to remove the phosphate from accumulating. Did anyone else notice the function of the enzyme ? I found these quotes interesting ?

The inactivation of that protein by hyperphosphorylation is part of a general biological process, in which activation of a cell (by injury or nervous or hormonal or other stimulation, including radiation) leads to the activation of a large group of about 500 enzymes, phosphorylases, which amplify the stimulation, and cause the cell to respond by becoming active in many ways, for example, by stopping the synthesis of glycogen, and beginning its conversion to glucose to provide energy for the adaptive responses, that include the activation of genes and the synthesis or destruction of proteins. Another set of enzymes, the phosphatases, remove the activating phosphate groups, and allow the cell to return to its resting state.

Estrogen generally activates phosphorylases, and inactivates phosphatases. Progesterone generally opposes those effects.

But it's true that cancer cells have active telomerase, and that most healthy cells don't. It happens that telomerase is activated by cellular injury, such as radiation, that activates phosphorylases, and that it is inactivated by phosphatases. Estrogen activates telomerase, and progesterone inhibits it.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ru486.shtml

One study suspects in can protect against metabolic syndrome
Intestinal alkaline phosphatase prevents metabolic syndrome in mice.
Kaliannan K1, Hamarneh SR, Economopoulos KP, Nasrin Alam S, Moaven O, Patel P, Malo NS, Ray M, Abtahi SM, Muhammad N, Raychowdhury A, Teshager A, Mohamed MM, Moss AK, Ahmed R, Hakimian S, Narisawa S, Millán JL, Hohmann E, Warren HS, Bhan AK, Malo MS, Hodin RA.
Author information
Abstract
Metabolic syndrome comprises a cluster of related disorders that includes obesity, glucose intolerance, insulin resistance, dyslipidemia, and fatty liver. Recently, gut-derived chronic endotoxemia has been identified as a primary mediator for triggering the low-grade inflammation responsible for the development of metabolic syndrome. In the present study we examined the role of the small intestinal brush-border enzyme, intestinal alkaline phosphatase (IAP), in preventing a high-fat-diet-induced metabolic syndrome in mice. We found that both endogenous and orally supplemented IAP inhibits absorption of endotoxin (lipopolysaccharides) that occurs with dietary fat, and oral IAP supplementation prevents as well as reverses metabolic syndrome. Furthermore, IAP supplementation improves the lipid profile in mice fed a standard, low-fat chow diet. These results point to a potentially unique therapy against metabolic syndrome in at-risk humans.

So its seems that encouraging high Alkaline phosphatase may be ideal for some, of course I don't recommend damaging other liver enzymes just to increase alkaline phosphatase. Precaution as always.
 

Peata

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A lot of Ray Peat followers believe if they suppress Free Fatty acids with aspirin or niacinamide. They won't be able to lose weight. And yet study after study shows that free fatty acids can cause type 2 diabetes and insulin resistance, which is associated with central obesity.

Bromocriptine is a perfect example of lowering free fatty acids and other diabetes causing chemicals to reverse type 2 diabetes and lower body fat.

I guess the cultural cliches induced by the low carb ideology is going to take a lot longer to disappear. Even within this forum and others alike.

In the past, there was confusion on the forum about it. I for one, took niacinamide and aspirin partly for the FFA help, but then there was some doubt going around -including in my mind - about whether that actually hurt things, and now it appears clearer that it does not. So I am back to taking niacinamide.

Maybe that is partly why I have been unable to lose weight no matter what I do (or just lose a little and then stop or it even starts climbing back up), is because of the FFA. Because even when I've gone low fat (20 g or less per day often less than 10 g fat) I wasn't seeing any result. (due to cortisol being high from all the low carb/high fat days of the past?) I'm hoping that the niacinamide will help.
 
Last edited:

jaguar43

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In the past, there was confusion on the forum about it. I for one, took niacinamide and aspirin partly for the FFA help, but then there was some doubt going around -including in my mind - about whether that actually hurt things, and now it appears clearer that it does not. So I am back to taking niacinamide.

Maybe that is partly why I have been unable to lose weight no matter what I do (or just lose a little and then stop or it even starts climbing back up), is because of the FFA. Because even when I've gone low fat (20 g or less per day often less than 10 g fat) I wasn't seeing any result. (due to cortisol being high from all the low carb/high fat days of the past?) I'm hoping that the niacinamide will help.

My main objective was to point out that suppressing free fatty acids with niacianamide shouldn't cause weight gain. I don't know if it can help with weight loss. Drugs like bromocriptine are pretty strong and studies have showed that it does lower body fat through promoting glucose oxidation which raises metabolic rate.
 

superhuman

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niacinamide will help fat loss, not hinder it. It will raise metabolic rate because it gears metabolism towards glucose instead of fat and burning sugar will cause a higher metabolic rate then burning fat aka cause more fat loss with the same amount of food eaten.
 

Tarmander

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niacinamide will help fat loss, not hinder it. It will raise metabolic rate because it gears metabolism towards glucose instead of fat and burning sugar will cause a higher metabolic rate then burning fat aka cause more fat loss with the same amount of food eaten.

In theory this makes sense but most people on this forum, myself included, have taken niacinamide for long periods and had no weight loss. It's useful but it doesn't seem to be a weight loser
 

jaguar43

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I second that question. :)

While on cynomel and cynoplus I did lose weight including the four grams of niacinamide. By it self, I don't think it would cause fat loss. But I never said it causes weight loss. When I said increasing metabolic rate I meant taking thyroid hormone.

That wasn't really the point of my post. I stated that people believe "burning fat" by decreasing glucose oxidation is better for fat loss. That's what the low-carb and the bodybuilding community thinks. I disagree, studies that refer to diabetes type 2 and obesity have related biochemicals processes with high lipid peroxidation, high free fatty acids, low glucose tolerance and insulin resistance. IF your losing weight going low-carb assuming it's all fat and not muscle and/or tissue. Then you probably have a very robust metabolic rate.

There was ( probably still is) a misconception here stating that if you use high dose of niacinamide then you will gain weight or inhibit weight loss. I don't really agree with that. If you gain weight on niacinamide then that means your metabolic rate is low and you were probably in a cancer metabolism by not using glucose effectively. Overall Your weight should be stable on B3. If anything, niacinamide helps keep muscle mass and tissue from breaking down while increasing metabolic rate (through thyroid, aspirin, or other uncouplers) to lose fat.

Like Ray Peat said, he thinks it's best to increase metabolic rate to loss weight. You could eat 700 calories and still not lose weight because your metabolic rate is decreased. B3 doesn't really increase metabolic rate to the point of weight loss. It inhibits free fatty acids lowers phosphate, and helps glucose oxidation.
 

superhuman

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In theory this makes sense but most people on this forum, myself included, have taken niacinamide for long periods and had no weight loss. It's useful but it doesn't seem to be a weight loser

Thats why you eat to much and eat more then you currently are using or the same amount.

And i agree with everything that @jag2594 said
 

SQu

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I think it's this one : Rosacea, inflammation, and aging:The inefficiency of stress
 

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