Critique of Georgi/Mercola/Ray Peat

[Razvan]

In general, ferritin rises either in response to increased iron intake (assuming the liver is not damaged) or as an acute biomarker of inflammation/infection. I have not seen much published data on vitamin K and ferritin, but it seems to raise RBC count (if low) in people taking higher doses (20mg+ daily) for things like osteoporosis. Heptadecanoic acid seems to be effective at regulating ferritin better, as described in the LipOdd thread.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/lipodd

New order is coming then :))
Yes, exactly 20mg+ i've been getting those warming effect.
For some reason iron supplementation apart from giving digestion problems and stopping my appetite at some point made me more dizzy and weak which completly dissapears when stopping it. Would you think ferritin could get higher just by the stoppage of the iron chelators (vit E, Aspirin)? Keep in mind i took 1-2g of aspirin daily for 2-3 years and vitamin E very often so I tanked down all my iron i had before.

 

[Razvan]

Serum iron by itself is almost meaningless. Ferritin, and iron saturation are much more important and I think he said they should all be in the bottom 20% of the range, with transferrin ideally being in the upper 20% of the range.

The doctor even said that the hemoglobin it will take 5 months to become in the normal range again with iron supplementation, in 3 weeks it rose to almost 14 so normal. And yet he would still not admit he was wrong.

 

[haidut]

New order is coming then :))
Yes, exactly 20mg+ i've been getting those warming effect.
For some reason iron supplementation apart from giving digestion problems and stopping my appetite at some point made me more dizzy and weak which completly dissapears when stopping it. Would you think ferritin could get higher just by the stoppage of the iron chelators (vit E, Aspirin)? Keep in mind i took 1-2g of aspirin daily for 2-3 years and vitamin E very often so I tanked down all my iron i had before.

I don't think supplementing with isolated iron product is safe. Nausea, dizziness, weakness, etc are common side effects and can be due to GI/liver toxicity. Liver and black olives are probably the best options.
Btw, this is not the topic of the thread so I can't comment more on this.

 

[haidut]

The doctor even said that the hemoglobin it will take 5 months to become in the normal range again with iron supplementation, in 3 weeks it rose to almost 14 so normal. And yet he would still not admit he was wrong.

Good. I would consider other dietary sources of iron as now iron is normal and there is no point risking taking an isolated supplement that actually caused side effects for you.

 

[TNT]

Thanks for the summary, very grateful! I just saw another amazing testimony in the groups, this kind of healing just cannot be overlooked. Something special is happening.

What groups, Charlie? I'd like to join.

 

[InChristAlone]

You can see the "psycopath" behaviour of the low VA people. Speaking like a cult and preaching some kind of authority. Just reading those posts on twitter you can see that. This is what happens when eating too much beans and starch, it's going on for centuries and the "authority" is getting bigger just for the starch eating slaves to follow along.

Sounds like you harmed yourself on a liquid diet so why are you are attacking people who healed using starch?

 

[LLight]

Sounds like you harmed yourself on a liquid diet so why are you are attacking people who healed using starch?

Cult-like behaviour

 

[GreekDemiGod]

So, I don't think he is a good person, I think he is resentful and a borderline predatory marketer, and if Genereux and Mawson are the genesis of the vitamin A story, and this is the crux of his contribution to their work, then I don't see the point in spending any more time on him. The debate should probably be focused on them.

It doesn’t matter whether he is a good person or not. Whether he is kind, generous, or whether he is not. Whether he is a predatory marketer or not. What matters is that he has a protocol that works for some people. He brings results. He is helping people to get off supplements and crutches.
In contrast to others who use dozens of supplements and pro hormones after years of peating and somehow they’re still convinced they are on the path of healing.

At the end of the day, people are still going to ridicule him and attack him. I saw a post on Twitter from an account mocking and ridiculing his physiognomy, pointing out his flaws in “looksmax” speak.
But some people pay attention. His account keeps growing. People will go From mocking to denial and then to acceptance.
I’ve been reading many reports on Twitter of people getting hypercalcemia from D3.

Case in point.

Update: Health continues to improve even more with continued monitoring. It seems the famotidine was causing some constipation which in turn led to some endotoxin overloading. I also got my appendix removed which seems to have massively helped many aspects of my health. Chronic appendicitis can apparently suck. Currently down to 10 mg/night of Famotidine alongside some Zinc Carnosine in the hopes it relieves this GERD(which I believe is due to constipation/slow bowels). Additionally, application of small amounts of preg/andro/prog daily(2/1/2 drops) and some NDT(3 drops currently, adding 1 per week) and some tocopherols(5 drops and staying there consistently). In the realm of normal supplements, on and off 325mg aspiring split into two daily doses and 100-500mg niacinamide depending on how I'm feeling. I'm loading up on fat solubles via liver(A), thorne K2/D3(K/D), and magic tocopherol liquid. I am also independently supplementing some policosanol since it seems to help generalized energy.

As far as my previous TTFD supplementation goes I have backed off as it seems to cause issues after a few weeks that I never got from pure B1. Perhaps some glutathione related issue per Paradoxical Reactions With TTFD: The Glutathione Connection - Hormones Matter





The above is just for my own reference really. Making another independent post seems painful. I recently picked up a different Selenium(SelenoExcell) and it seems night and day better for me than the L-Selenomethionine I've tried in the past. I do plan on taking TTFD again but for right now it appears that my body is releasing some PUFAS into circulation(feeling shitty and not really too full alongside adrenaline symptoms) and/or estrogen(puffiness, emotional, etc.) which is cyclically combatted by myself. I view this as a pretty good outcome and its indicative of releasing tissue stores. I view this in much the same way Ray viewed his addition of coconut oil to his diet:

Of course in my case I'm releasing nonsense into my body then upping X,Y,Z to get rid of it but all the same.

 

[charlie]

What groups, Charlie? I'd like to join.

The love your liver website is the main one where most the people meet up. There is Grant Genereux's site. There is Telegram group "WillOfEuropa's Healthmaxx Network". And there is some Facebook ones but I have not been on them. If someone could post those that would be awesome. And if anyone knows of other groups that would be great too so we can get a master list going.

 

[Pete Rey]

What matters is that he has a protocol that works for some people.

This is a logical non-statement. Everything works for some people and not others. There are still vegan and carnivore evangelists out there saying the same thing. I tried to be as fair as possible in composing my post, but in my reality both message and messenger matter, not just one or the other.

 

[InChristAlone]

Now, synthetic retinoids (acitretin, etretinate, tretinoin, etc) are indeed very liver-toxic, as are some natural analogs/isomers of retinoic acid, but those are only rarely used (i.e. severe acne or blood cancers) and thus affect only a small portion of people. The natural retinol and retinoic acid(s) have been used in massive doses on people daily and not shown any serious (and especially, liver) toxicity.

Reports Of Vitamin A Toxicity Are Greatly Exaggerated

This is a human study and as you can see it used up to 500,000 IU vitamin A daily for months for acne treatment without any serious signs of toxicity. Most doctors will warn you that vitamin A will cause liver issues, but as you can see this was not the case here...

raypeatforum.com

Vitamin A (retinol) Is Not Toxic To The Liver In High Doses

As a follow up on my previous post, this study looks at toxicity of retinol acetate in doses exceeding 300,000 IU per day taken for months and in combination with a SERM (tamoxifen) which itself is quite estrogenic and as such is a proven liver burden. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3218964

raypeatforum.com

You really think a study on breast cancer patients is evidence that humans can take a lot of retinol? These were the side effects: "gastrointestinal symptoms, skin toxicity and headache." I want to know the full range of long term side effects. This study is garbage.

This is a human study and as you can see it used up to 500,000 IU vitamin A daily for months for acne treatment without any serious signs of toxicity. Most doctors will warn you that vitamin A will cause liver issues, but as you can see this was not the case here.

Oral vitamin A in acne vulgaris. Preliminary report - PubMed

"...Oral vitamin A (retinol) is generally not considered useful in the treatment of acne vulgaris. We conducted a study which showed that retinol was indeed ineffective at the usual doses of 50,000 to 100,000 IU daily. Retinol was highly efficacious in doses of 300,000 units for women and 400,000 to 500,000 units for men, toxicity was slight and limited mainly to skin (xerosis) and mucous membranes (cheilitis). The danger of hypervitaminosis A in this dosage range has been exaggerated. Retinol is a valuable drug for treating stubborn, severely inflammatory acne vulgaris. It is administered until the disease is brought under control, usually within three to four months. Then the dosage is progressively reduced relying on conventional drugs to keep the disease in abeyance."

This is downright criminal. It's posts like these that have greatly harmed our community and why people are now disrespecting Ray by saying he was murderous. No Peat never recommended retinol supplements, it was his followers.

I would never trust scientists and doctors who only know how to treat things by using drugs and poisons. Retinoic acid is like chemo. Let's try not to get to a place of ever needing chemo to heal.

I think equally as important was the increase in T3 and reductions in T4. So, vitamin A somehow increased the conversion of T4 into T3, which suggests that it was beneficial to liver function. I need to see the study to gauge how much TSH dropped. If it dropped below 1, then vitamin A may be a good substitute for thyroid supplementation since I am not convinced people without actual thyroid disease need to take hormone replacement therapy.
Thanks for the find.

Do you still believe this??????

 

[TNT]

The love your liver website is the main one where most the people meet up. There is Grant Genereux's site. There is Telegram group "WillOfEuropa's Healthmaxx Network". And there is some Facebook ones but I have not been on them. If someone could post those that would be awesome. And if anyone knows of other groups that would be great too so we can get a master list going.

I found one on FB called Vitamin A Toxicity: Log in to Facebook

 

[Wolf]

It doesn’t matter whether he is a good person or not. Whether he is kind, generous, or whether he is not. Whether he is a predatory marketer or not. What matters is that he has a protocol that works for some people. He brings results. He is helping people to get off supplements and crutches.
In contrast to others who use dozens of supplements and pro hormones after years of peating and somehow they’re still convinced they are on the path of healing.

At the end of the day, people are still going to ridicule him and attack him. I saw a post on Twitter from an account mocking and ridiculing his physiognomy, pointing out his flaws in “looksmax” speak.
But some people pay attention. His account keeps growing. People will go From mocking to denial and then to acceptance.
I’ve been reading many reports on Twitter of people getting hypercalcemia from D3.

Case in point.

In what way? My vit D3 was pegged at 29ng/mL(suggestive of insufficiency) a few months back and a few months further back and warranted supplementation if that's what you were trying to make a case in point. Additionally, my calcium was within range as were my other electrolytes(albeit a somewhat higher TSH of 1.5 than I usually have).

Having chronic appendicitis alongside a rigorous chemical engineering curriculum set me back a ways from ideal, but with Peating I'm doing far better.

 

[Regina]

In what way? My vit D3 was pegged at 29ng/mL(suggestive of insufficiency) a few months back and a few months further back and warranted supplementation if that's what you were trying to make a case in point. Additionally, my calcium was within range as were my other electrolytes(albeit a somewhat higher TSH of 1.5 than I usually have).

Having chronic appendicitis alongside a rigorous chemical engineering curriculum set me back a ways from ideal, but with Peating I'm doing far better.

I'm having chronic (low grade) appendicits (or cecum inflammation???) for the last month or two. Did you post anything about your recovery that you can point me to?

 

[Wolf]

I'm having chronic (low grade) appendicits (or cecum inflammation???) for the last month or two. Did you post anything about your recovery that you can point me to?

Privately messaged.

 

[Risingfire]

Why would anyone with a functioning thyroid need to take exogenous thyroid? Unless someone’s thyroid is removed, I see no justifiable use case.
Why does Danny Roddy, a young man in his mid 30s living in an ideal climate with low stress, low EMF, and having quality nutrition needs to take exogenous thyroid to function optimally? Explain this.

You think it's good to have a low body temp?

 

[InChristAlone]

You think it's good to have a low body temp?

You don't need exogenous hormones to raise your temp.

 

[Mauritio]

I think I found one of these miracoulous healing reports everyone is talking about!!
In all seriousness with every success story there is one of those

I don't think vitamin A is a toxin anymore. I've started and stopped the low A diet 3 times now and after a few months of No vitamin A my eyes start to degenerate. I get symptoms such as night blindness, dry eyes, and my skin quality gets worse. Eating some butter cleared these symptoms up immediately. The first time these symptoms happened I attributed these to detox from the soluble fiber in beans, since I was also eating lots of beans at that time. But the last time since going No A, I only ate rice and meat and still my eyes and skin degenerated after a few months. My asthma also came back and actually got an infection in my lungs! Also I am afraid I gave myself cataracts. When I walk down the street at night I see halos around lights which is a sign of cataracts.
Currently I am eating foods with vitamin A again.
Currently eating milk, cheese, eggs, butter, potatoes, white bread, dark chocolate, and mushrooms.

 

[Mr Joe]

I think I found one of these miracoulous healing reports everyone is talking about!!
In all seriousness with every success story there is one of those

Reading the answers is pretty fun as well :
"However, Grant ate brown rice, and you ate white rice."

No Joke.

 

[Risingfire]

You don't need exogenous hormones to raise your temp.

There are times you do