Cardiovascular exercise boosts metabolism ?

[Apple]

Isn't cardiovascular exercise (running, swimming, aerobics, walking) a best way to stimulate/boost your metabolism ?
it increases the temperature and heart rate.
It is cheap and natural.
Ray Peat mimics exercise by consuming thyroid and coffee...Maybe he is just lazy ? Why not to do jogging/bicycling/hiking instead?
We are inventing stuff on this forum how all people are hypothyroid when in fact it is just an excuse to not get off the couch.
When I'm out all day long for several days ... all my digestive problems/food intolerances/allergies disappear. Any crap food is well tolerated and sufficient.
Physical activity makes you warm and energizes you.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Isn't cardiovascular exercise (running, swimming, aerobics, walking) a best way to stimulate/boost your metabolism ?
it increases the temperature and heart rate.
It is cheap and natural.
Ray Peat mimics exercise by consuming thyroid and coffee...Maybe he is just lazy ? Why not to do jogging/bicycling/hiking instead?
We are inventing stuff on this forum how all people are hypothyroid when in fact it is just an excuse to not get off the couch.
When I'm out all day long for several days ... all my digestive problems/food intolerances/allergies disappear. Any crap food is well tolerated.
Physical activity makes you warm and energizes you.

I agree being busy is the key to good health, Ray thinks so too. He says stressful and "breathless" exercise is problematic. I love a brisk walk to town for dinner or a good game of volleyball, but a treadmill no thanks. I think vigorous exercise is more about too much of a good thing. Simulating the stress response and cortisol that comes with running till exhausted is too taxing on the body. Ray may be sedentary, but it is the differencing between living long like a tortoise or dying young like a rabbit. We can't judge if Ray takes thyroid or not, he did a lot of damage to himself, like most people on this forum, before "Peating" himself. I don't take thyroid, medications or suppliments and I don't exercise. I just stay busy, and don't turn the tv on until two or three hours befor bedtime, and I have no health issues at 58.

 

[Apple]

I agree being busy is the key to good health, Ray thinks so too. He says stressful and "breathless" exercise is problematic. I love a brisk walk to town for dinner or a good game of volleyball, but a treadmill no thanks. I think vigorous exercise is more about too much of a good thing. Simulating the stress response and cortisol that comes with running till exhausted is too taxing on the body. Ray may be sedentary, but it is the differencing between living long like a tortoise or dying young like a rabbit. We can't judge if Ray takes thyroid or not, he did a lot of damage to himself, like most people on this forum, before "Peating" himself. I don't take thyroid, medications or suppliments and I don't exercise. I just stay busy, and don't turn the tv on until two or three hours befor bedtime, and I have no health issues at 58.

Recently I played volleyballl to the point I couldn't breathe or walk. I had very sharp vision for the rest of the day. It happened with me before, after extreme endurance exercises. Probably I exhausted my system out of poisonous fats/vit A in those days.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Recently I palyed volleyballl to the point I couldn't breath. I had very sharp eyesight for the rest of the day. It happened with me before, after extreme endurance exercises. Probably I exhausted my system out of poisonous fats/vit A in those days.

I LOVE vigorous exercise from sports, especiall racquetball. I took two semesters of tennis in college, Judo in college, and did A LOT of roller skating living in California at the beach, I put them on in the morning and didn't take them off until night. I love the way stomach crunches feel too, and I still have my weighted hoola hoop, so I am no stranger to exercise, but I do feel I am aging backwards without it. Stress lines on my forehead and around my mouth have disappeared being in a more calm state all the time.

 

[Tom K]

There is a saying that goes something like this,"The great thing about golf and sex is that you don't have to be good to enjoy them." I find the saying is equally applicable to exercise. There are so many misconceptions about exercise that these interpretations should be included in a psychology 101 section labeled 'Normalcy and confirmation bias.' As a person that has been engaged as an exercise professional for more than 40 years, it is apparent that bro-science and confirmation bias play an enormous role both at every level, from gym rat to pHD exercise physiologist. One would hope that bias in the scientific circles would dial down the disagreements, it has not. If your post graduate department head believes aerobic exercise is a panacea, you better conform to the program. Claims of clear headedness, perfect vision, etc. rarely if ever hold up under scientific examination where the variables are controlled. When examined objectively using imaging technology endurance exercise participants have greater arterial plaque than couch potatoes, they have a greater incidence of cardiac arrhythmia, and have yet to show longevity benefits. However, such info will not sell sneakers, conform to the politically correct ideals of 'Aerobics good, weight lifting bad.' The myths surrounding exercise die hard, though they were established decades ago, before the invention of the evaluative/diagnostic technology that exists today. Colloquially stated, long story short, none of the centenarians interviewed to date jogged.

 

[Makrosky]

Isn't cardiovascular exercise (running, swimming, aerobics, walking) a best way to stimulate/boost your metabolism ?
it increases the temperature and heart rate.
It is cheap and natural.
Ray Peat mimics exercise by consuming thyroid and coffee...Maybe he is just lazy ? Why not to do jogging/bicycling/hiking instead?
We are inventing stuff on this forum how all people are hypothyroid when in fact it is just an excuse to not get off the couch.
When I'm out all day long for several days ... all my digestive problems/food intolerances/allergies disappear. Any crap food is well tolerated and sufficient.
Physical activity makes you warm and energizes you.

I think the key here is whether the exercise is meaningful/fun for you or not. That's most of it (besides professional athletes, marathon runners, etc... that IS definitely very deleterious for health).

I can (or could last time I checked) spend one, two, three hours swimming in the sea without getting tired. Whereas if I go to a indoor gym I will get exhausted and depressed after... well, just by stepping in that place.

If someone finds joy on running in a running belt like a hamster and lifting weights under fluorescent lamps and gym weirdos... then it is going to be good for them.

 

[Apple]

There is a saying that goes something like this,"The great thing about golf and sex is that you don't have to be good to enjoy them." I find the saying is equally applicable to exercise. There are so many misconceptions about exercise that these interpretations should be included in a psychology 101 section labeled 'Normalcy and confirmation bias.' As a person that has been engaged as an exercise professional for more than 40 years, it is apparent that bro-science and confirmation bias play an enormous role both at every level, from gym rat to pHD exercise physiologist. One would hope that bias in the scientific circles would dial down the disagreements, it has not. If your post graduate department head believes aerobic exercise is a panacea, you better conform to the program. Claims of clear headedness, perfect vision, etc. rarely if ever hold up under scientific examination where the variables are controlled. When examined objectively using imaging technology endurance exercise participants have greater arterial plaque than couch potatoes, they have a greater incidence of cardiac arrhythmia, and have yet to show longevity benefits. However, such info will not sell sneakers, conform to the politically correct ideals of 'Aerobics good, weight lifting bad.' The myths surrounding exercise die hard, though they were established decades ago, before the invention of the evaluative/diagnostic technology that exists today. Colloquially stated, long story short, none of the centenarians interviewed to date jogged.

How many centenarians do you know that take combo T4/T3 (in Ray Peat style) to increase resting heart rate and temperature ?
Why taking thyroid is better or safer than exercise ?
In fact, people die from taking thyroid too, T3 is not recommended for the elderly.

 

[Explorer]

Recently I played volleyballl to the point I couldn't breathe or walk. I had very sharp vision for the rest of the day. It happened with me before, after extreme endurance exercises. Probably I exhausted my system out of poisonous fats/vit A in those days.

It could be CO2 increase too

 

[Perry Staltic]

When examined objectively using imaging technology endurance exercise participants have greater arterial plaque than couch potatoes, they have a greater incidence of cardiac arrhythmia, and have yet to show longevity benefits.

All studies show couch potatoes have less arterial plaque than endurance exercise participants? Color me skeptical.

 

[Apple]

It could be CO2 increase too

Increased CO2 or high cortisol or eliminating some bad stuff from blood...
I used to experiment with fasting some years ago...After one day of fasting I experienced a better vision too.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Increased CO2 or high cortisol or eliminating some bad stuff from blood...
I used to experiment with fasting some years ago...After one day of fasting I experienced a better vision too.

I think it's a mental thing. At times I've had my mind in the right place and my vision would clear to 20/20.

 

[Tom K]

All studies show couch potatoes have less arterial plaque than endurance exercise participants? Color me skeptical.

Perry, I understand your skepticism and bias. Imagine my disbelief having worked in cardiac rehab in the late 70s (another story that bucked conventional wisdom). At first, I did not believe the published papers that revealed less arterial plaque on the 'Healthy' joggers than on the couch potatoes. That was 20 years ago when I read the first paper. But these papers are not theoretical arguments made by those with differing opinions regarding which form of exercise is best. These were objective diagnostic driven studies where opinion is omitted. This most recently I read study is from the BMJ. Physical activity and the progression of coronary artery calcification | Heart.
Results We analysed 25 485 participants with at least two CAC score measurements. The proportions of participants who were inactive, moderately active and HEPA were 46.8%, 38.0% and 15.2%, respectively. The estimated adjusted average baseline CAC scores (95% confidence intervals) in participants who were inactive, moderately active and HEPA were 9.45 (8.76, 10.14), 10.20 (9.40, 11.00) and 12.04 (10.81, 13.26). Compared with participants who were inactive, the estimated adjusted 5-year average increases in CAC in moderately active and HEPA participants were 3.20 (0.72, 5.69) and 8.16 (4.80, 11.53). Higher physical activity was association with faster progression of CAC scores both in participants with CAC=0 at baseline and in those with prevalent CAC.
Conclusion We found a positive, graded association between physical activity and the prevalence and the progression of CAC, regardless of baseline CAC scores.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

There is a saying that goes something like this,"The great thing about golf and sex is that you don't have to be good to enjoy them." I find the saying is equally applicable to exercise. There are so many misconceptions about exercise that these interpretations should be included in a psychology 101 section labeled 'Normalcy and confirmation bias.' As a person that has been engaged as an exercise professional for more than 40 years, it is apparent that bro-science and confirmation bias play an enormous role both at every level, from gym rat to pHD exercise physiologist. One would hope that bias in the scientific circles would dial down the disagreements, it has not. If your post graduate department head believes aerobic exercise is a panacea, you better conform to the program. Claims of clear headedness, perfect vision, etc. rarely if ever hold up under scientific examination where the variables are controlled. When examined objectively using imaging technology endurance exercise participants have greater arterial plaque than couch potatoes, they have a greater incidence of cardiac arrhythmia, and have yet to show longevity benefits. However, such info will not sell sneakers, conform to the politically correct ideals of 'Aerobics good, weight lifting bad.' The myths surrounding exercise die hard, though they were established decades ago, before the invention of the evaluative/diagnostic technology that exists today. Colloquially stated, long story short, none of the centenarians interviewed to date jogged.

Ha! I like your ending! I wonder if a person that was strading in the middle of nowhere by themselves, with ample amounts of food and water, would spend their time on a treadmill or picking up and puting down large amounts of weights if there were nobody around to see their "results".

 

[Perry Staltic]

Perry, I understand your skepticism and bias. Imagine my disbelief having worked in cardiac rehab in the late 70s (another story that bucked conventional wisdom). At first, I did not believe the published papers that revealed less arterial plaque on the 'Healthy' joggers than on the couch potatoes. That was 20 years ago when I read the first paper. But these papers are not theoretical arguments made by those with differing opinions regarding which form of exercise is best. These were objective diagnostic driven studies where opinion is omitted. This most recently I read study is from the BMJ. Physical activity and the progression of coronary artery calcification | Heart.
Results We analysed 25 485 participants with at least two CAC score measurements. The proportions of participants who were inactive, moderately active and HEPA were 46.8%, 38.0% and 15.2%, respectively. The estimated adjusted average baseline CAC scores (95% confidence intervals) in participants who were inactive, moderately active and HEPA were 9.45 (8.76, 10.14), 10.20 (9.40, 11.00) and 12.04 (10.81, 13.26). Compared with participants who were inactive, the estimated adjusted 5-year average increases in CAC in moderately active and HEPA participants were 3.20 (0.72, 5.69) and 8.16 (4.80, 11.53). Higher physical activity was association with faster progression of CAC scores both in participants with CAC=0 at baseline and in those with prevalent CAC.
Conclusion We found a positive, graded association between physical activity and the prevalence and the progression of CAC, regardless of baseline CAC scores.

Not a lot of difference between them. You're focusing on only one factor. What about inflammation, blood circulation, tissue oxygenation, metabolic health, etc? I suspect the couch potatoes won't fare so well in those categories.

 

[Aad]

Of course it does. People should try walking first. Start with 5 miles/day and work your way up to 10 miles/day.

 

[Tom K]

Perry, this happened to be the latest study. However, you may be missing the point, which perhaps I did not clearly articulate. If there were these tremendous health benefits ascribed to aerobic exercise, one would expect a dramatic difference between a person that spends hours wearing out sneakers to someone that watches Netflix all day. Alternatively, I agree when you state, "You're focusing on only one factor. What about inflammation, blood circulation, tissue oxygenation, metabolic health, etc? I suspect the couch potatoes won't fare so well in those categories." The question therefore begs to be asked, "Do these indices contribute to longevity? Did they matter?" There is ample evidence that stated they do not.

In the previous response I spoke of my experience in cardiac rehab. In one clinical rotation (1979) I worked at a major university cardiac rehab clinic. In one situation I was working with patients on the treadmill. In the 70s treadmills were notoriously unreliable, regularly breaking down. I had a full roster of patients scheduled when the treadmill stopped working. The department head instructed me to switch to using a bicycle ergometer. At that time we calculated Max VO2 by hand with calculators. First patient on the ergometer had their VO2 drop by 35%. Second patient, same thing. Third patient, same approximate drop in VO2 and I went to the department head. I was advised to check my math and then went to lunch. My math was correct and I had a colleague check it to be certain. At lunch, puzzled by what was happening the light bulb went off. We were not exclusively engaging in cardiac rehab, we were teaching our patients to be more efficient treadmill walkers. As the patients became more expert at treadmill walking (gaining neurological efficiency) there VO2 improved, and that was not the goal. If we were truly improving aerobic capacity, the benefits of 'technique' would not matter. ANother more sport oriented example follows.

I have been engaged in the martial arts since 1974. In the early 80s I joined a kickboxing club, long before kickboxing was a household word. One of the black belts decided to temporarily discontinue training in kickboxing to train for an Ironman event. He was swimming, jogging, and biking mile after mile. He returned to the club after he had placed third in his last Ironman competition. Obviously, he had achieved a high level of fitness in these three categories of exercise (jogging, swimming, biking). We used to end every training session with sparring. This accomplished black belt, having taken third in an Ironman competition a week earlier, could not complete a second round of sparring, not because he was not in shape but because he was inefficient at kickboxing due to his absence. I mean no condescension by employing these real world examples to illustrate that often our beliefs do not measure up to the facts. The old adage, "If the only tool in the world was a hammer, everything would be a nail," should not ignored. Your beliefs are based upon the same dogma that has been taught since the word 'Aerobics' was invented. In fact, the inventor of the term, Ken Cooper, later admitted that the concept was an error.
Be well, Tom

 

[Perry Staltic]

I have been engaged in the martial arts since 1974. In the early 80s I joined a kickboxing club, long before kickboxing was a household word. One of the black belts decided to temporarily discontinue training in kickboxing to train for an Ironman event. He was swimming, jogging, and biking mile after mile. He returned to the club after he had placed third in his last Ironman competition. Obviously, he had achieved a high level of fitness in these three categories of exercise (jogging, swimming, biking). We used to end every training session with sparring. This accomplished black belt, having taken third in an Ironman competition a week earlier, could not complete a second round of sparring, not because he was not in shape but because he was inefficient at kickboxing due to his absence. I mean no condescension by employing these real world examples to illustrate that often our beliefs do not measure up to the facts. The old adage, "If the only tool in the world was a hammer, everything would be a nail," should not ignored. Your beliefs are based upon the same dogma that has been taught since the word 'Aerobics' was invented. In fact, the inventor of the term, Ken Cooper, later admitted that the concept was an error.

I don't know what you're trying to convey here. Different muscle groups are used in karate and ironman stuff. I was extremely fit in college (run 2 miles, swim 2 miles, lift weights 2 hrs 5 days a week), but after attending a friend's karate class for one or two sessions I was the sorest I had ever been in my entire life. It seemed like every muscle in my body ached. I was in very good shape, but my muscles weren't conditioned for that activity. So I understand the reality very well, but don't understand what that has to do with the discussion.

 

[Tom K]

Apologies for the confusion. You stated, "What about inflammation, blood circulation, tissue oxygenation, metabolic health, etc?" While I am not cancelling the desirability of these traditional markers of 'Health", I am questioning their relevance. In non-disease states, there are numerous examples of the unimportance and meaningless nature of these 'Health' markers. When we extrapolate data to conform to a pre-established norm or ideal, we have a tendency to limit our view. I have had numerous patients with poor homocysteine, dopplers, and blood sugar irregularities live well into their 90s. I have had perfect pictures of health with ideal blood markers die while jogging in their 40s and 50s. One instance stands out that may convey the idea I am attempting to convey.

I had an 89 year old male patient that went to live with his daughter and became our patient. She brought the old gent in for a work up, where blood test revealed his cholesterol level was 280. As an obedient brainwashed representative of the American public she demanded statin medication for her dad. The argument was presented that he was 89 years old with no health issues other than what the 'Standard of Care' violation established by the pharmaceutical companies that requires immediate intervention with statins. When we told her our experience was that statins, especially at an advanced age, often resulted in CHF and kidney disease, she threatened to change practitioners. We understood, asked her to sign the HIPPA release agreement to forward his records, and she stomped out of the office stating we lost two patients, her father and her. None months later he died from CHF. What's the point? He lived to be 89, with high cholesterol, poor homocysteine levels, and borderline Type II diabetes. Yet, he never jogged a day in his life. When conventional wisdom prevailed, and he was put on the statins, he died. These events (statins) will never be recorded as contributing to his death. According to standard thinking, including your measures of "... inflammation, blood circulation, tissue oxygenation, metabolic health, etc" he should have died long before he. began to follow the party line. Therefore I conclude, When the facts do not match the theory, the facts are not wrong. Keep an open mind, question everything, including me.

 

[Quelsatron]

Recently I played volleyballl to the point I couldn't breathe or walk. I had very sharp vision for the rest of the day. It happened with me before, after extreme endurance exercises. Probably I exhausted my system out of poisonous fats/vit A in those days.

Yeah, I biked into the city center and then back, on the last stretch my vision was sharp as **** and I was ecstatic, though I think it's just some kind of dopamine/adrenaline response. The kind that adrenaline junkies chase, not the adrenaline when you forget to eat salt.

Inversely, my vision also becomes worse when I'm feeling worse. It's an alluring topic, because the ideal would be to have that kind of dopamine laser vision all the time.