Can You Guys Help Out Please? Severe Social Anxiety And Refractory Depression

Kuro

Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
6
Hey nice to meet you all first off, I've been here a while doing lots of reading and so on, and finally decided to join in. I was wondering if I could get some help with these issues, as they've been going on far too long by now, I'm hitting my limit. I've had severe social anxiety for years now, it's gotten better but still far off, the main problem is my mind goes completely blank when it comes to talking to someone, and so my social anxiety is worse in that regards of fear of talking to people and going blank and having nothing to say.

The only thing that helps me get through is a high extract of kava for now but it's by no means a cure. And then the other problem is mostly as a result of having social anxiety and it ruining years of life, and keeping me alone, I've got refractory depression now, and literally nothing works anymore.. Nardil saved my life before but burnt out and stopped working and I ended up worse than before.. now the only thing that kinda works but I don't consider this a treatment cause it stops working after 3 days is modafinil. When I take that it's like a switch goes off and I become more assertive, barely any social anxiety full of motivation, everything it felt like when I was normal and when Nardil worked. But that also only works 3 days then hits tolerance and I have to wait a week or so to take it again..

My depression is so heavy I can't do even the simplest tasks as it takes so much energy.. and every single day at night it gets the most severe..

I've heard about how too much serotonin can cause some issues such as social anxiety and depression, could something like meteroline help? I'm just clueless I've studied so much, and tried so many things some work then stop working after a while, but most don't work at all. Also I'm still taking Nardil as I'm not quite sure how to get off it, without even more depression coming up. Could this be a problem? Do I need to let my monoamines rest? If anyone can help out or offer any advice I would highly appreciate it, because what I try isn't working.
 

somuch4food

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
1,281
I find depression and social anxiety is directly related to the gut and like you mention, it could be serotonin.

I wouldn't look for a supplement for long term treatment. You need to get a hard look at diet, lifestyle and gut health for a permanent solution.

Have you tried any of the stuff regularly recommended like the carrot salad? I'm about to give it a better shot than I did the first time. I think I was not consistent enough with it to yield results.
 
OP
K

Kuro

Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
6
Hi thank you for your reply. You have a good point there, I've also had problems with my gut always. Can you give more detail about
this carrot salad? I haven't heard anything about it. Did it help you at all when you tried it? Well I wish you luck with your consistency with it this time.
Would something like those probiotics specifically for mood help I wonder..
 

lampofred

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
3,244
If there is no gut issue, I think social anxiety and depression might just be protective mechanisms for a hypothyroid body to conserve energy. Social interaction uses up a lot of energy, so by increasing anxiety, your body is forcing you to isolate yourself to rest and recuperate energy stores.

So unfortunately I don't know if there is any quick way to overcome it aside from eating a lot of animal protein (milk), taking thyroid, and spending a lot of time resting and avoiding excess stimulation (especially electronic) so that you nourish yourself at the deepest levels to rebuild your energy. Bag breathing to increase CO2 and red light exposure should also help.

If there is a gut issue, a daily carrot salad should help to reduce inflammation, endotoxin, constipation.
 

Terma

Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
1,063
MAO inhibitors like nardil are too blunt weapons - you cannot take that every day.

Since nothing works I assume you tried the basics: temporary high doses of magnesium and zinc. (Magnesium you have to take a high enough dose - topical and/or oral - that you can subjectively notice effects on brain function and emotions)

Since this is so generic, all I can tell you is what I do: cycle all strong supplements and drugs: methylene blue, phenibut, THC/CBD/PEA, etc. You can't safely take any of that while on nardil, and that eventually becomes the main problem. I usually refuse to take pharmaceuticals like nardil on the basis they expect daily chronic dosing, while cycling is the only long-term non-curative treatment strategy that's sustainable. That comes from me but it's the same thing Ray Peat happens to do, more or less.

Best of luck
 

Jib

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
591
You have the power to combat social anxiety without any supplement or diet change. I believe this because I have to. I am in a very similar situation.

It's been snowballing because the more socially isolated I've become, the worse the anxiety gets. It's at a point where I'm so desperate for social interaction but so afraid to pursue it, every waking moment is a living hell. It's a place I've been many times before, only I had a short break from it during the few years I was in a long term relationship. Now that that's over I'm back at square one.

Trust me, I get it. I am currently in a phase where I am basically wishing every single day that I was dead because the social isolation is so painful. And then the ruminating about the many lost years of my life that have already gone down the drain due to social anxiety. No e-mails, no texts, no phone calls, no nothing, it's like the Twilight Zone. It's a nightmare.

That being said, I cannot recommend this highly enough:



This is important. Work on your emotions about the social anxiety and the depression. No diet change or lifestyle change can do this for you. You need to directly confront these emotions while you're in the worst of it. I have gone back to tapping using this method starting today. It's funny how resistant we can be to doing it. It's a tool to get your mind straightened out and cleaned up in solitude and then you'll be able to think about the external world more clearly.

I myself am trying to learn "openers" and other social skills specifically aimed at creating new relationships. Taking the initiative to approach a stranger and start a conversation or tell a story. Making social relationships happen for you, instead of passively waiting for them to come or not come. And we both know that 99% of the time they do not come, and without initiative there is no god that is going to save us from this hell that is social isolation and anxiety.

Building a game plan will help you. You need to learn skills for socializing just like you would learn specific exercises to use in a workout. There are so many opportunities I have to talk to people every single day, but I pass them by out of anxiety. This CAN be changed, and I know it can, and part of why I'm telling you this is because I myself need to believe it.

It's one of those things we don't want to hear: that in order to get better, we have to do what we're most terrified of. Approaching strangers and socializing, even going so far as to create our own social circles.

Step 1 is to admit that this is a possibility. We might feel, due to our anxiety, that it's impossible, or that we "know" we'll never take the initiative. But we have to admit that it is POSSIBLE to approach strangers, to create relationships out of nothing but our own initiative to approach and engage people we don't know. It is possible.


You've got my deepest sympathy. Trust me on that. My depression also is worst at night and keeps me in bed 90% of the day. For me, it's the social isolation. If I felt anyone cared about me, or the work I do, or the things I create, I think the depression would evaporate. For me the depression comes from feeling like I'm living in a vacuum, where there is no one that knows I exist, or cares about anything I do or think. It's like not being human.

So I think the socialization is the key. To force yourself to go through the blood, sweat, and tears of building social skills from ground zero and taking the initiative to create the relationships you want to have. Relationships with other people are what make us feel alive. When you have people in your life that are aware you exist and care about the things you do, people you can work with, collaborate with, have fun with -- everything changes.

That and working out. Physical exercise can be the last thing you want to do when you're depressed but it does help. Keep your mind focused on forward progress, and when it falls back to the past and anxiety-ridden thoughts, use the Faster EFT tapping method until it subsides. Rinse and repeat and keep your focus as much as possible on forward progress.

I'll be doing the same. Hang in there. Of course all the supplement/diet changes are welcome but I think it's important to pay attention to the emotions themselves, and the belief systems behind them that make them so intense. Very important.
 

Aymen

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
596
Location
Tunisia
hi , improving health will certainly help you to reduce social anxiety , high doses caffeine (400mg ) at once makes me want to socialize and i just want to start conversation with any stranger , i got the benefits of reduced anxiety too , maybe it's the pregnenolone that is responsible for that .
interesting thread that you may view :
Caffeine Increases Pregnenolone & Progesterone In The Brain
so if improving health is the first step to reduce social anxiety , the second one is to try the babysteps so in the future you will avoid getting the stomach butterflies which will mostly happen when you fear rejection for example or if you think that everyone is looking at you when you walk then try to look at them you will find that they are not looking at you , and you will feel better , here is a good link 5 Ways to Beat Social Anxiety
 
Last edited:

Aymen

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
596
Location
Tunisia
You have the power to combat social anxiety without any supplement or diet change. I believe this because I have to. I am in a very similar situation.

It's been snowballing because the more socially isolated I've become, the worse the anxiety gets. It's at a point where I'm so desperate for social interaction but so afraid to pursue it, every waking moment is a living hell. It's a place I've been many times before, only I had a short break from it during the few years I was in a long term relationship. Now that that's over I'm back at square one.

Trust me, I get it. I am currently in a phase where I am basically wishing every single day that I was dead because the social isolation is so painful. And then the ruminating about the many lost years of my life that have already gone down the drain due to social anxiety. No e-mails, no texts, no phone calls, no nothing, it's like the Twilight Zone. It's a nightmare.

That being said, I cannot recommend this highly enough:



This is important. Work on your emotions about the social anxiety and the depression. No diet change or lifestyle change can do this for you. You need to directly confront these emotions while you're in the worst of it. I have gone back to tapping using this method starting today. It's funny how resistant we can be to doing it. It's a tool to get your mind straightened out and cleaned up in solitude and then you'll be able to think about the external world more clearly.

I myself am trying to learn "openers" and other social skills specifically aimed at creating new relationships. Taking the initiative to approach a stranger and start a conversation or tell a story. Making social relationships happen for you, instead of passively waiting for them to come or not come. And we both know that 99% of the time they do not come, and without initiative there is no god that is going to save us from this hell that is social isolation and anxiety.

Building a game plan will help you. You need to learn skills for socializing just like you would learn specific exercises to use in a workout. There are so many opportunities I have to talk to people every single day, but I pass them by out of anxiety. This CAN be changed, and I know it can, and part of why I'm telling you this is because I myself need to believe it.

It's one of those things we don't want to hear: that in order to get better, we have to do what we're most terrified of. Approaching strangers and socializing, even going so far as to create our own social circles.

Step 1 is to admit that this is a possibility. We might feel, due to our anxiety, that it's impossible, or that we "know" we'll never take the initiative. But we have to admit that it is POSSIBLE to approach strangers, to create relationships out of nothing but our own initiative to approach and engage people we don't know. It is possible.


You've got my deepest sympathy. Trust me on that. My depression also is worst at night and keeps me in bed 90% of the day. For me, it's the social isolation. If I felt anyone cared about me, or the work I do, or the things I create, I think the depression would evaporate. For me the depression comes from feeling like I'm living in a vacuum, where there is no one that knows I exist, or cares about anything I do or think. It's like not being human.

So I think the socialization is the key. To force yourself to go through the blood, sweat, and tears of building social skills from ground zero and taking the initiative to create the relationships you want to have. Relationships with other people are what make us feel alive. When you have people in your life that are aware you exist and care about the things you do, people you can work with, collaborate with, have fun with -- everything changes.

That and working out. Physical exercise can be the last thing you want to do when you're depressed but it does help. Keep your mind focused on forward progress, and when it falls back to the past and anxiety-ridden thoughts, use the Faster EFT tapping method until it subsides. Rinse and repeat and keep your focus as much as possible on forward progress.

I'll be doing the same. Hang in there. Of course all the supplement/diet changes are welcome but I think it's important to pay attention to the emotions themselves, and the belief systems behind them that make them so intense. Very important.

this man looks like daniel craig.
 

Jib

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
591
this man looks like daniel craig.

lol. I never noticed that. Funny :)

I can vouch for caffeine helping, at least for me, strong coffee with a lot of heavy cream and sugar seems to help quite a bit. I use a muslin cloth tea strainer so I can make the coffee pour-over style as strong as I want, with fresh ground beans.
 

Richiebogie

Member
Joined
May 3, 2015
Messages
962
Location
Australia
Hi @Kuro,

Experiment with different diets to see what optimises mood, keeps energy constant, gives confidence...

Currently I have approximately 1.5 litres of Orange Juice, 100g sultanas, 100g dates, 2 boiled eggs, 4 bananas, 1/2 litre apple juice, 100g dark chocolate, 100g raspberries, 200g chicken, fish or lamb and a few other things each day!

I vary it each day looking for things which improve mood and stamina.

If you spend a lot of time at home alone you could get a dog. They are very loving, accepting and want your attention. They love to be fed, patted, cuddled, walked, talked to and groomed. They can teach you how to love and be warm and more tactile. They also attract conversations with strangers in the street.

Dale Carnegie in "How to win friends and influence people" pointed out that people like to talk about their own passions and interests.

"What's your favourite show on tv?" or "how do you fill in your spare time?" can lead into them talking about their interests in cooking, or real estate, or travel, or psychology or surgery or natural health or airplane design or whatever they are captivated by.

Don't interrupt, just ask a few brief questions to learn from them about their topic of interest and how long they were interested in it etc.

A conversation doesn't mean that you have to entertain or dominate.

Focus all of your attention on what the other person has to say.

Many people like a good listener.
 
Last edited:

Nokoni

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
693
You might want to try supplemental neurosteroids such as progesterone and 5α-DHP. When mitochondrial function becomes compromised, steroid production declines and so nerve function is adversely affected. I still remember my first couple of drops of 5α-DHP. Taurine is also helpful.
 
OP
K

Kuro

Member
Joined
May 4, 2019
Messages
6
I know that high serotonin causes a bunch of symptoms and social anxiety.
I have almost every symptom of high serotonin, what supplement could I take here?
This is really ruining my life and on top on that unbearable depression.. I want to die...
there has to be something out there before I lose the will to go on... Thank you all for your
advice but none of that will work for me. I've tried everything...
 

somuch4food

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
1,281
I know that high serotonin causes a bunch of symptoms and social anxiety.
I have almost every symptom of high serotonin, what supplement could I take here?
This is really ruining my life and on top on that unbearable depression.. I want to die...
there has to be something out there before I lose the will to go on... Thank you all for your
advice but none of that will work for me. I've tried everything...

Unfortunately, I don't think a supplement would work long term. Diet and lifestyle causing high serotonin should be addressed.

What's your current diet like?

As for the carrot salad, just search the forum or google 'carrot salad ray peat'. It's a common recommendation around here.
 

Lolinaa

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Messages
236
Hi,
I hope you are ok. How are you doing? Are you feeling better.

I don't know where you live but start with something to alleviate quickly your learned helplessness. You can easily get taurine to start with. Then maybe you are hypothyroid, do the temps and pulse test.

Good luck, dont give up.
 

Lolinaa

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2017
Messages
236
I used to take it in the morning. Some here take it 3 times per day with a meal. A dose as low as 150mg 3 times per day is recommended in a study I read on here.
I sometimes just take 500mg with breakfast before going to work.
Peat doesn't recommend long term amino acid though, but for me it was the thing that really helped me staying focused, calm and productive. Now I don't use it that much.
 

Lizb

Member
Joined
May 27, 2017
Messages
731
Location
United Kingdom
I know that high serotonin causes a bunch of symptoms and social anxiety.
I have almost every symptom of high serotonin, what supplement could I take here?
This is really ruining my life and on top on that unbearable depression.. I want to die...
there has to be something out there before I lose the will to go on... Thank you all for your
advice but none of that will work for me. I've tried everything...
How are you now Kuro? What have you found that helps?
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
2,206
Hey nice to meet you all first off, I've been here a while doing lots of reading and so on, and finally decided to join in. I was wondering if I could get some help with these issues, as they've been going on far too long by now, I'm hitting my limit. I've had severe social anxiety for years now, it's gotten better but still far off, the main problem is my mind goes completely blank when it comes to talking to someone, and so my social anxiety is worse in that regards of fear of talking to people and going blank and having nothing to say.

The only thing that helps me get through is a high extract of kava for now but it's by no means a cure. And then the other problem is mostly as a result of having social anxiety and it ruining years of life, and keeping me alone, I've got refractory depression now, and literally nothing works anymore.. Nardil saved my life before but burnt out and stopped working and I ended up worse than before.. now the only thing that kinda works but I don't consider this a treatment cause it stops working after 3 days is modafinil. When I take that it's like a switch goes off and I become more assertive, barely any social anxiety full of motivation, everything it felt like when I was normal and when Nardil worked. But that also only works 3 days then hits tolerance and I have to wait a week or so to take it again..

My depression is so heavy I can't do even the simplest tasks as it takes so much energy.. and every single day at night it gets the most severe..

I've heard about how too much serotonin can cause some issues such as social anxiety and depression, could something like meteroline help? I'm just clueless I've studied so much, and tried so many things some work then stop working after a while, but most don't work at all. Also I'm still taking Nardil as I'm not quite sure how to get off it, without even more depression coming up. Could this be a problem? Do I need to let my monoamines rest? If anyone can help out or offer any advice I would highly appreciate it, because what I try isn't working.



Dear Kuro.
If you are still alive,i would like to give you this advice.I wrote it for another member,but it could be of use for you also.



"Did you ever replete micronutrients thoughfully,not this or that once at a time.
What i do get as an impression from people is that a lot of them believe if they start clean eating,problems go away.

The thing is,clean eating ist just the baseline,and incurred "debt" has to be "worked off".
Also,respectfully, i consider Peat-foodchoice as junkfood,i would abstain from the milk,the oj,the protocol,everything that is coming from a cardboard-box.

People can get severe neurological symptoms just by food-intolerances.milk is also a hormonally
active food.I would advise to eat meat with Protein intake of at least 1.6g per kilogram of Bodyweight,
if you are rehabilitating,then Plus 50% on top of that.Low-fat Meat,Butterfat,ripe fruit like Bananas,cooked vegetables,no additional junksugar,very low PUFA,but still low dose LC-PUFA DHA from fish,it is physiologic,even if unstable,Gelatine,20 to 40g a day,also anxiolytic.

Only very good Multivitamin i encountered is Thorne Research Basic Nutrients 2/day,from which i would take like it is advised,and longer term ,after 6 months or so,only one a day.I would advise strongly for that one.
Against anxiety, Magnesium citrate,daily dose 500 to750mg of Mg+,it works.It has to be dissolved in a body of water,no pill or capsule,for 3oomg Magnesium 300 to 400 ml water.
Also low amount of movement,like cycling 20 to 30 minutes.

If you are a gym-rat,reduction of volume is highly advised,lower amount of sets,intensity is way more important than volume.

Women have higher incidence of these disorders because we live in a phony,covert-incel-controlled
society, and im only half-joking.The medical-industrial complex is highly sexist,anti-woman,they
have knowledge how to make people weak.
Any abuser has a sharp eye for that,its the innate knowledge of pimps and slavetraders.
Nutrition advise for women is mean spirited,they have to eat like males,no low Protein,no
low amount of red meat.Hang in there."
 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom