Buteyko Breathing - Bud Weiss, 2008-09-15

[ecstatichamster]

post 117433

post 117429 My CP is in the low 40s most of the time but it drops from around 45 to around 35 sometimes in the winter. So the stress really adds up.

This should represent really good CO2 levels - does this mean your health is now great, as Rakhimov claims? My CP is still terrible, so you probably make a better guide than me.

I'm in my mid 50s, don't take any medication, and have good energy levels. I count myself as lucky in life. My lab tests showed pretty high testosterone, high cholesterol, TSH in the high 2s, moderately elevated liver enzymes.

My health improved SO MUCH that I can't tell you. It was the huge breakthrough in my life. I was on a bunch of medications and really dying 10 years ago, when I found Buteyko. Nothing has compared to it.

Now I'm working on the next level.

I've coached a lot of people and every one of them has achieved huge health breakthroughs. If I work with someone they WILL get better. I'm here because I want to learn more.

Even Artour has some health issues. It's not the answer to everything. But it is the most important part of the puzzle.

The tools I recommend are the Frolov device (or its cheaper imitations), especially put into a jar to hold a larger reservoir of CO2 and regular breathing practice. Also the Elevation Training Mask is a great innovation that can really help.

 

[tara]

post 117434 The tools I recommend are the Frolov device (or its cheaper imitations), especially put into a jar to hold a larger reservoir of CO2 and regular breathing practice. Also the Elevation Training Mask is a great innovation that can really help.

Thanks. I had a go at making and using Artour's DIY device with tube and jar a few times. But more often than not the exercise was followed by migraine, so I didn't persist. Not sure that they caused them - may have already been underway - but they certainly didn't interrupt them. According to his site, migraineurs (along with people dealing with epilepsy and panic attacks) can be easily triggered by raising CO2 too fast. I can't currently make time for longer breathing training sessions, but wearing a mask could be done along with other tasks at home, so maybe I should consider that.

I'm just reminded about someone posting about mechanically closing one nostril at a time for longer periods - intended to try that, maybe I'll get to it now.

Did you do the physical exercise component, and if so do you think it was of significant benefit?

 

[Ahanu]

After including Ray peats ideas my CP droped and my health skyrocked. I have my theories why but i think the combination of these 2 wise man is gold. Arthur is a litte Hardliner, though

 

[ecstatichamster]

post 117438

post 117434 The tools I recommend are the Frolov device (or its cheaper imitations), especially put into a jar to hold a larger reservoir of CO2 and regular breathing practice. Also the Elevation Training Mask is a great innovation that can really help.

Thanks. I had a go at making and using Artour's DIY device with tube and jar a few times. But more often than not the exercise was followed by migraine, so I didn't persist. Not sure that they caused them - may have already been underway - but they certainly didn't interrupt them. According to his site, migraineurs (along with people dealing with epilepsy and panic attacks) can be easily triggered by raising CO2 too fast. I can't currently make time for longer breathing training sessions, but wearing a mask could be done along with other tasks at home, so maybe I should consider that.

I'm just reminded about someone posting about mechanically closing one nostril at a time for longer periods - intended to try that, maybe I'll get to it now.

Did you do the physical exercise component, and if so do you think it was of significant benefit?

I did some exercise and I think it was a benefit. I did walking and running with breath holds and that was very valuable.

I think all along I've had low thyroid and I didn't realize it. Exercise was very difficult for me. I had several winters of being very, very cold all the time. I'd be the only one bundled up in two jackets around the house. That started when I raised my CP. I had cleansing reactions including a weird rash one day, and some dental issues which resulted in my getting my one root canal tooth extracted.

I read your thread about headaches. I had terrible headaches that were intermittent in 2005 and got steadily worse. They got much better, almost always gone now, since Peat inspired eating. I just took some aspirin, so they aren't perfect but then again I was smoking which tends to give me a headache. I live in dread of the headaches starting up again.

They weren't/aren't migraines that most people experience as I understand them, but they are one sided whole body headaches that are way more than just a headache. But Buteyko never made them go away, nor did it make them worse.

 

[ecstatichamster]

post 117439 After including Ray peats ideas my CP droped and my health skyrocked. I have my theories why but i think the combination of these 2 wise man is gold. Arthur is a litte Hardliner, though

how long has it been?

my CP drops seasonally. Always much higher in the summer time.

 

[tara]

post 117434 My health improved SO MUCH that I can't tell you. It was the huge breakthrough in my life. I was on a bunch of medications and really dying 10 years ago, when I found Buteyko. Nothing has compared to it.

Very cool.
Are you saying your TSH is still in the high twos even after your big health immprovements, or that this was before your Buteyko training?

 

[ecstatichamster]

post 117443

post 117434 My health improved SO MUCH that I can't tell you. It was the huge breakthrough in my life. I was on a bunch of medications and really dying 10 years ago, when I found Buteyko. Nothing has compared to it.

Very cool.
Are you saying your TSH is still in the high twos even after your big health immprovements, or that this was before your Buteyko training?

no, now.

I never had a test before. I think I've been low thyroid all along.

 

[tara]

post 117440 I think all along I've had low thyroid and I didn't realize it. Exercise was very difficult for me. I had several winters of being very, very cold all the time. I'd be the only one bundled up in two jackets around the house. That started when I raised my CP. I had cleansing reactions including a weird rash one day, and some dental issues which resulted in my getting my one root canal tooth extracted.

Interesting - do you have speculations about why? I wonder if raising your CP effectively raised your temperature set point but still not enough energy to maintain it easily? Or maybe just increased circulation to extremities so you were losing more heat, making it harder to keep core warm?

post 117440 They weren't/aren't migraines that most people experience as I understand them, but they are one sided whole body headaches that are way more than just a headache. But Buteyko never made them go away, nor did it make them worse.

Sounds like migraine to me.
Glad you've had such big improvements. :)

post 117445 I never had a test before. I think I've been low thyroid all along.

Me too. I've only been tested a couple of times in the last 3 years, low twos, but various symptoms are consistent with long-term lowish or much of my life.
Are you thinking high twos might be an improvement for you compared with your previous state?

 

[tara]

post 117440 They got much better, almost always gone now, since Peat inspired eating.

If you've got a post spelling out what your approach to Peating has been, would you be willing to point me to it? I did a little hunting amongst your posts, but not gone through them all ...
Thanks :)

 

[Ahanu]

post 117441 how long has it been?

That was 2 years ago. My CP got to 45-50. But heart rate and temps were low. So when the temperature reached 37C my CP had droped to 35-45.To do so I stoped a few recomentations to improve CP which are not Peaty.
What do you think about the differences between Peat & Buteyko?

 

[ecstatichamster]

post 117449

post 117440 They got much better, almost always gone now, since Peat inspired eating.

If you've got a post spelling out what your approach to Peating has been, would you be willing to point me to it? I did a little hunting amongst your posts, but not gone through them all ...
Thanks :)

I haven't really described it. It's cheese, yogurt (I know, not perfect), getting into some starch lately, but was doing OJ and lots of coffee and honey, meat or fish for dinner. GL collagen (not sure about that long term either). No milk.

I think it was increasing sugar (honey, OJ, etc.) that really helped the most.

I'm wondering about the starch at this point, not sure about it.

I think my problem has ALWAYS been endotoxins from low thyroid. I have a lot going for me though with the CO2 levels so it hasn't impacted me that much in my life since my CP got up high.

 

[ecstatichamster]

post 117453

post 117441 how long has it been?

That was 2 years ago. My CP got to 45-50. But heart rate and temps were low. So when the temperature reached 37C my CP had droped to 35-45.To do so I stoped a few recomentations to improve CP which are not Peaty.
What do you think about the differences between Peat & Buteyko?

Buteyko said animal protein affected CP the most. Spicy foods were good. Eating light was best.

Peat says "breathe into a bag" but missing most of the technical details, Ray's not really interested in the details of Buteyko techniques.

What did you stop doing that lowered your CP?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Interesting - do you have speculations about why? I wonder if raising your CP effectively raised your temperature set point but still not enough energy to maintain it easily? Or maybe just increased circulation to extremities so you were losing more heat, making it harder to keep core warm?

Not sure. The explanation given to me by my then coach was the core circulatory system readjusting itsself and dominating over the peripheral part, for some reason. Never really understood it.

post 117440 They weren't/aren't migraines that most people experience as I understand them, but they are one sided whole body headaches that are way more than just a headache. But Buteyko never made them go away, nor did it make them worse.

Sounds like migraine to me.
Glad you've had such big improvements. :) [/quote]

I never had visual effects that I always associated with migraines, but I suppose they could be considered migraines.

post 117445 I never had a test before. I think I've been low thyroid all along.

Me too. I've only been tested a couple of times in the last 3 years, low twos, but various symptoms are consistent with long-term lowish or much of my life.
Are you thinking high twos might be an improvement for you compared with your previous state?[/quote]

Not sure. And that's TSH. Who knows. I have been doing a lot of low carb, fasting,high fat etc., and I think that's what made the headaches worse and worse. That's what I concluded because I started Peat as an experiment and the headaches disappearing was and is a complete shock.

 

[tara]

post 117465 Not sure. And that's TSH. Who knows.

Actually, I just spotted you had a TSH of 1.8 a month or two ago - if that's down from high twos, that might be a big change.

post 117465 I have been doing a lot of low carb, fasting,high fat etc., and I think that's what made the headaches worse and worse. That's what I concluded because I started Peat as an experiment and the headaches disappearing was and is a complete shock.

That makes sense to me.

 

[ken]

Giraffe, the site Bud Weiss mentions is Buteyko Breath Reconditioning by Peter Kolb. It was the first place i came across a Ray Peat essay.

 

[Giraffe]

post 117483 Giraffe, the site Bud Weiss mentions is Buteyko Breath Reconditioning by Peter Kolb. It was the first place i came across a Ray Peat essay.

Thanks. I have changed it above.

 

[Ahanu]

Buteyko said animal protein affected CP the most. Spicy foods were good. Eating light was best.

Peat says "breathe into a bag" but missing most of the technical details, Ray's not really interested in the details of Buteyko techniques.

What did you stop doing that lowered your CP?[/quote]

I started to enjoy chocolate again and drinking lot of coffee with milk and sugar. Cheese and butter also. Things that i stoped eating because of their potential to drop the CP. Essantially i stoped to resist my taste and just ate what i want. Most peaty things are per se very tasty.

Then there is the idea in the buteyko world to generally restrict the food intake a little (eating light) which is an easy way to raise the CP but not a healthy one i think. So i started "eating to raise the metabolismen" instead of "eating to increase the CP"

Also i stoped doing cardio excercise that lasts for more than 40 minutes.

My experience is that the CP without temperature and puls is not a reliable indicator. For example if i do exercise in the afternoon and don't eat much in the evening i will have a higher CP the next morning. Very good from Buteyko's view. And i can repeat this and it will raise the CP distinctly and so encouraging me to continue with this practise. Till i come to the point where i see that the higher CP is not any more correspodenting with a better health and wellbeing. Taking the temperature will tell me why .
So raising the CP should go hand in hand with raising the metabolism. This will take longer of course but raising either the CP or the metabolism is just a dead end.

Peats recommendation for bag breathing is very helpful but it will not change one's breathing habits as much as when combined with buteyko and mindfulness. Unhelpfull breathing habits once developed need to be adressed from different angles in my view. There is no learning effect in breathing into a bag, a training mask or even doing an buteyko exercise and then forget all day about the breathing as you will certainly know.

Do you now, after knowing peat ideas, give different recommendations to your students than before ?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I'm starting to recommend VERY different approaches to my students. The basics of nose breathing are essential, of course, and doing reduced breathing or Frolov device etc. The approaches are the same but once a person gets up to a CP of 25 or 30, they usually are not interested in pursuing the breathing approach anymore anyway.

Even a CP of 25 - 28 will often resolve most health issues that bring people to me anyway. High blood pressure, prostate inflammation, etc.

now I'm focusing a lot on thyroid, temps and HRs. And working very hard to figure out how to fix diabetes type 2 without the breathing. Because most people won't do the breathing enough to fix diabetes type 2.

Any ideas?

 

[Blossom]

@ecstatichamster I was wondering if you have an opinion on the breathslim as compared to the frovlov?
http://www.breathslim.com/respiratory-trainer/

 

[ecstatichamster]

post 117538 @ecstatichamster I was wondering if you have an opinion on the breathslim as compared to the frovlov?
http://www.breathslim.com/respiratory-trainer/

it's cheaper and students have had equal success to it.

Both these devices don't contain big enough reservoirs for CO2. So what I do is beyond a certain CP, recommend students put the device into a big jug or jar, cover the top with a towel, and use the device mouthpiece that way. The device in the big jar or jug concentrates the CO2 and makes the exercise much more effective.