Learning Correct Breathing Techniques For Weight -/+

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james2388

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Obese people need oxygen. Skinny people need carbon dioxide.
Excess energy is stored as carbon. Through Indirect calorimetry testing, metabolism is measured via Co2 production.

Most people here are trying to lose weight.
It's not about Co2 retention. It's about oxidation. And by this I mean, of course that hyperventilating does not help. But there is a difference between 3 breathing techniques.

1 being bag breathing - Co2 re circulation/re absorption, Hypercapnia. I find this state being conducive to a hibernating state, yes it may be relaxed, but it is not associated with mental acuity, reproduction, or increasing metabolism. People that also retain carbon dioxide are shallow breathers, very shallow inhales and exhales. This method allows for increased oxygen uptake the following breaths.

2 being an empty breath hold. There is no oxygen in the lungs, so this allows Co2 build up.

3 being a full breath hold, where you inhale and hold it. Allowing a huge exchange to take place between oxygen and carbon dioxide. And then you can go into an empty breath hold.

So with a quick google search, of 'does holding in air increase oxygen' this is the result
"Inhaling a lungful of air and then holding your breath is uncomfortable because levels of carbon dioxide in your blood increase – but oxygen levels in your blood don't actually drop significantly."

So this supports my theory of this large exchange happening with holding deep breaths. And honestly it's very difficult you can get light headed and feel warm very fast. empty /shallow breath holds are easier to do, but this effect is not the same. Bag breathing is not the same, as someone can just go back to lower oxidative breathing patterns.

Now I know by reading all this you are thinking Wim Hoff, sure, but his breathing rhythms are far too fast, and too long, where people are literally experiencing hallucinations induced via hypoxia- asphyxiation.

So by going with a far slower tempo, and not hyperventilating, with just long paused full breath holds with several fast medium breaths in between to counteract the co2 buildup. This would be a better method.

Ideally swimming or walking, with breath holds something that increases heart rate will allow an even greater exchange of oxidation circulating more blood to the lungs.
 

Jekkyl

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Joined
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Messages
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You don't choose how much CO2 you retain. Your tolerance does, which is regulated by the medulla, which is affected by the chemoreceptors.

You do realize that we only utilize 20% of the oxygen we uptake? It's about delivering the oxygen efficeintly.
Bag breathing is essentially outsourcing the dead space in your sinuses, throat, and bronchi.
You do want to retain CO2. Deep breathing is diaphragmatic breathing. Shallow breathing is chest breathing. It has nothing to do with the volume of air. You can hyperventilate even when you take small inhale/exhales.

The point is to change your automatic breathing pattern so your CO2 is normalized. And that happens by spending enough time in a hypercapnic state while remaining relaxed so your medulla can change your CO2 set point.
 

snacks

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Obese people need oxygen. Skinny people need carbon dioxide.
Excess energy is stored as carbon. Through Indirect calorimetry testing, metabolism is measured via Co2 production.

Most people here are trying to lose weight.
It's not about Co2 retention. It's about oxidation. And by this I mean, of course that hyperventilating does not help. But there is a difference between 3 breathing techniques.

1 being bag breathing - Co2 re circulation/re absorption, Hypercapnia. I find this state being conducive to a hibernating state, yes it may be relaxed, but it is not associated with mental acuity, reproduction, or increasing metabolism. People that also retain carbon dioxide are shallow breathers, very shallow inhales and exhales. This method allows for increased oxygen uptake the following breaths.

2 being an empty breath hold. There is no oxygen in the lungs, so this allows Co2 build up.

3 being a full breath hold, where you inhale and hold it. Allowing a huge exchange to take place between oxygen and carbon dioxide. And then you can go into an empty breath hold.

So with a quick google search, of 'does holding in air increase oxygen' this is the result
"Inhaling a lungful of air and then holding your breath is uncomfortable because levels of carbon dioxide in your blood increase – but oxygen levels in your blood don't actually drop significantly."

So this supports my theory of this large exchange happening with holding deep breaths. And honestly it's very difficult you can get light headed and feel warm very fast. empty /shallow breath holds are easier to do, but this effect is not the same. Bag breathing is not the same, as someone can just go back to lower oxidative breathing patterns.

Now I know by reading all this you are thinking Wim Hoff, sure, but his breathing rhythms are far too fast, and too long, where people are literally experiencing hallucinations induced via hypoxia- asphyxiation.

So by going with a far slower tempo, and not hyperventilating, with just long paused full breath holds with several fast medium breaths in between to counteract the co2 buildup. This would be a better method.

Ideally swimming or walking, with breath holds something that increases heart rate will allow an even greater exchange of oxidation circulating more blood to the lungs.

Most people here trying to lose weight fail to do so because they think that they can calorically get away with literally anything they might be able to construe as "peaty." I can't count how many posts I've seen that are like "gaining weight on gomad/ice cream why is this???" over a year or so of lurking but it's been too many

Breathing techniques on their own are nice but they're not a secret royal road to losing weight (I doubt this is the goal of many of the borderline HAES people here anyways). you see very accomplished yogis who can hold their breath for minutes with the typical modern indian phenotype or worse

That having been said, this is an interesting thing to try for other reasons. A while ago I was reading some old book of medical curiosities and one of the techniques listed was something like increase your iq by swimming underwater. The logic behind this had more to do with the fact that the author seemed to think that patterns of thought reset with the breath (a lot of meditative schools do this too. I have best results when I key in on the end of the outbreath) but I was quick to tie the result to co2 accumulation. If you want to feel very good for a few hours try free diving or swimming laps underwater if you arent on the ocean or a lake or something

Also, wrt diaphragnic breathing most people literally cannot breathe properly. This is an emotional issue as well as one aggravated by bad posture. Stress is "encoded" in fascia and interferes with proper breathing, usually by impeding free movement of the diaphragm but also very often in the lower or upper back there can be problem areas. As a result lots of compensatory muscular action happens to approximate a full breath. This is why "kriyas" or small spasms occur frequently during meditation. Its fascia unwinding or resetting to their basal level of tension. I dont know of any way to fix this issue in particular besides perfect relaxation or meditation but I've heard that somatic therapy works
 
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Jekkyl

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2020
Messages
15
Most people here trying to lose weight fail to do so because they think that they can calorically get away with literally anything they might be able to construe as "peaty." I can't count how many posts I've seen that are like "gaining weight on gomad/ice cream why is this???" over a year or so of lurking but it's been too many

Breathing techniques on their own are nice but they're not a secret royal road to losing weight (I doubt this is the goal of many of the borderline HAES people here anyways). you see very accomplished yogis who can hold their breath for minutes with the typical modern indian phenotype or worse

That having been said, this is an interesting thing to try for other reasons. A while ago I was reading some old book of medical curiosities and one of the techniques listed was something like increase your iq by swimming underwater. The logic behind this had more to do with the fact that the author seemed to think that patterns of thought reset with the breath (a lot of meditative schools do this too. I have best results when I key in on the end of the outbreath) but I was quick to tie the result to co2 accumulation. If you want to feel very good for a few hours try free diving or swimming laps underwater if you arent on the ocean or a lake or something

Also, wrt diaphragnic breathing most people literally cannot breathe properly. This is an emotional issue as well as one aggravated by bad posture. Stress is "encoded" in fascia and interferes with proper breathing, usually by impeding free movement of the diaphragm but also very often in the lower or upper back there can be problem areas. As a result lots of compensatory muscular action happens to approximate a full breath. This is why "kriyas" or small spasms occur frequently during meditation. Its fascia unwinding or resetting to their basal level of tension. I dont know of any way to fix this issue in particular besides perfect relaxation or meditation but I've heard that somatic therapy works
I agree.

Breathing exercises have a myriad of benefits that might indirectly assist you on losing weight.

But I find it naive that no one believes CICO, which is the most basic bioenergetic equation in the body.
 

snacks

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Joined
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Messages
388
Location
Rostov-on-Don, Russia/Southern United States
I agree.

Breathing exercises have a myriad of benefits that might indirectly assist you on losing weight.

But I find it naive that no one believes CICO, which is the most basic bioenergetic equation in the body.

I'd give them more credit and say that it's less not believing in CICO than correctly understanding that this equation is influenced by metabolism and simply overestimating how much they can get away with after this is taken into account. For example, it's obvious that coconut oil and carrots can IMMEDIATELY mobilize fat stores and the like, and it's tempting to think that there's some combination of foods or foods and supplements that will let you eat much more while losing weight. Also, the truism about eating more speeding up metabolism gets thrown out a lot when weight loss is mentioned and I think that this has also been very harmful in terms of giving people unrealistic expectations

Either way since 2 or 3 people seem to enjoy getting angry at me via inbox I'll just add a disclaimer that none of this whatever is intended as an insult
 

Jekkyl

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Joined
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Messages
15
I'd give them more credit and say that it's less not believing in CICO than correctly understanding that this equation is influenced by metabolism and simply overestimating how much they can get away with after this is taken into account. For example, it's obvious that coconut oil and carrots can IMMEDIATELY mobilize fat stores and the like, and it's tempting to think that there's some combination of foods or foods and supplements that will let you eat much more while losing weight. Also, the truism about eating more speeding up metabolism gets thrown out a lot when weight loss is mentioned and I think that this has also been very harmful in terms of giving people unrealistic expectations

Either way since 2 or 3 people seem to enjoy getting angry at me via inbox I'll just add a disclaimer that none of this whatever is intended as an insult
Of course, there's no denying that metabolism will determine the amount of calories you can consume to maintain/lose/gain weight.

I just feel that when people say "I can eat whatever I want and still lose fat" they don't take into account that they still adhere to the basic principles. It's just that their set point might be higher.

Hell, the first step to determine your caloric needs is calculating your BMR.
 

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