CO2, Sleep Apnea, Diamox, Stress Hormones And Estrogen

Discussion in 'Ray Peat Quotes' started by aquaman, Mar 9, 2014.

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  1. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    I really like this quote, pasted from another thread I just put it in. Particularly the cause of adrenaline and oestrogen being low blood sugar and CO2 at night, and the need to eat well to stabilize sugar.

    This is from a KMUD show in January

    "Q: When we breathe through mouth rather than nose at night, this can get rid of too much CO2 and this is a problem?

    Q: is it more of a treatment than cure?

     
  2. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    For me it seemed that after the year and a half I spent on paleo(and estrogen) that seriously attending to CO2 was a very important healing intervention. All of Peat's work, that I have had the honor of reading and listening to, has contributed to and resulted in my return to a living regenerative state. I'm just going to say it in plain English, I was dying and quickly at that. I have never experienced this degree of health and wholeness, even as a small child. I know everyone's context is different, but unless one lives at a high altitude, I think bag breathing and /or buteyko are always beneficial. I chose diamox for specific reasons and (although I know most people don't need to go to that extreme) I'm sure grateful for a man name Ray Peat who isn't afraid to tell the truth about meds like this so people can heal and fully live.
     
  3. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Here is an oldie but a goodie from Ray Peat's December 1999 newsletter Homeostasis and Aging
    "CO2 limits the electrical depolarization of nerves and muscles, a phenomenon first discovered by Gilbert Ling. This prevents the over excitation and exhaustion of brain cells and muscle cells,including the heart. The presence of CO2 limits the formation of lactic acid. This explains the "lactate paradox" of high altitude exertion( lactic acid isn't produced during hypoxic exercise,since CO2 is retained by the Haldane Effect, in which low oxygen pressure fails to displace all of the CO2 carried in the blood cells) and it explains why lactic acid tends to always be present in the blood in hypothyroidism, diabetes and obesity. Insufficient CO2 is produced, and lactic acid is produced even without oxygen deprivation or stress. This aerobic glycolysis , the production of lactic acid in the presence of oxygen, was defined by Otto Warburg as the characteristic cancer metabolism. The "respiratory defect" in which the Pastuer effect(suppression of lactic acid formation in the presence of oxygen) fails to operate, consists largely of the failure to produce carbon dioxide in the mitochondria." That's what I'm working on.
     
  4. SAFarmer

    SAFarmer Member

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    Hi Blossom

    Nice quote !
    You are a bundle of new and positive energy on this forum.
    Thanks for all the effort and quotes you provide.
     
  5. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Gee, Thanks. I guess I'm just enjoying the fullness of life for the first time. I think we all have a unique experience and perspective and I really like the idea of people coming together and sharing. I think Ray would want those who have found healing through his work to share their experience. Sometimes I cry tears of joy when I realize what a valuable gift I have received. I just never imagined life could be this way. I'm still a work in progress, and I guess we all are and to some extent will always be but with that said I now look in the mirror and see vibrant health looking back at me, something I though before just wasn't in my ' genes'. I sing , I laugh , I love and I look forward to a bright future because of one brave scientist who was not afraid to speak the truth.
     
  6. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Indeed.

    Blossom, :hattip
     
  7. 5magicbeans

    5magicbeans Member

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    I have been taking the Diamox for a week now. 2 pills a day. 1 in a.m., 1 before bed. Have noticed no change.
    Does it take a while to work?
    I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on this...
     
  8. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    In my personal experience with diamox it has been subtle and I didn't really appreciate it until I took a few days off from it. It seems to have helped my body fluid distribution if that makes sense. I also can tell my circulation has improved although I wouldn't have considered it bad before. I'm definitely pinker which is a sign of better oxygenation. Some people use it three times a day and I tried that for a short while and it seemed too much for me. I'm on the smaller side for an adult though. Hope that helps a little 5mb.
     
  9. 5magicbeans

    5magicbeans Member

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    Thanks for your reply Blossom!
    I will experiment with 3...
    when you say three was too much for you what were you experiencing?
     
  10. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I felt it had too strong of a diuretic effect for me at that dose after a few days. I also had the tingling sensation in my hands and feet a lot more. I had read that for my size about 700 mg would be a medical dose but they were using those doses for things like glaucoma and such that I don't have. I try not to go overboard believe it or not! I'm certain taking that dose didn't harm me I just didn't feel it was necessary. I'm about 115 pounds and I think higher weights can handle a higher dose with that medicine.
     
  11. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I really think the true value for someone like me who was stuck in glycolysis rather than oxidative metabolism was that it created an abundance of protective CO2 in my system which was sorely lacking. Not everyone is in that boat by any means and even when people are the degree may vary. In my mind I like to think of it as helping my cells along as they relearned how to use sugar for fuel instead of the FFA's they were used to working with. I had a CO2 deficiency no doubt about that after the low carb paleo, estrogen therapy and the possibility of a carcinoid tumor I knew I had to get my cells moving in the right direction, pronto. For me it was a desperate time calling for an intense intervention. I have to say it's done it's job well for me. I believe in my case it enabled my cells to begin to regulate fluid properly again. I know at this point I could get off of it if I didn't work around such an unnaturally high amount of oxygen. I do have to admit I feel safer walking into work knowing I have optimal amounts of CO2 in my system. I'm sure most people who choose to take it can take it for far shorter periods of time than me just because of my current occupation. I believe it is a legitimate restorative measure for some depending on the context. I think when it comes to CO2 it's usually an easily overlooked area but important just the same. I think my healing would have come more slowly without it and I just didn't feel I had the luxury of time back then and in all honesty I probably didn't.
     
  12. mas

    mas Member

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    Blossom:

    I am just curious. Do you work in a hospital and is the high oxygen environment due to giving patients all that oxygen? Would it be better for patients if they used a better O2/CO2 for all the patients? Not only the patients but all staff that work there too.
     
  13. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Yes mas you are correct, it would be much better for everyone involved if rather than treating with oxygen people were given a mixture of oxygen and CO2. Peat has mentioned this flaw in the system in some of his writings. I remember when I first started working in the field I had never experienced any type of breathing issue myself but would notice wheezing after a long shift or several back to back shifts. I asked one of my coworkers and he casually replied it was occupational asthma. I do think there is a degree of danger that goes unrecognized or is just plain ignored. It's merely another example in a long list of flaws in the current system. I believe this happens world wide wherever you have modern medical care, using straight oxygen is just a standard of care. The only gas I've seen mixed with oxygen in the medical system is nitrogen. It's really sad in so many ways to see it day in and day out. Medicine has a long way to go and it still views CO2 as a poison. I know most of the people I work with could get much better results if some simple things were changed. Since medicine isn't really a science and everything seems based on a faulty view of the organism I'm pretty sure things aren't going to change quickly. It's no one person's fault but it really is going to take a radical change in science and a shake up in medicine for anything positive to happen. Right now there is a whole powerful system that is built up around the continuation of false perception and ideology. The general population believes in medicine so practically no questions the glaring poor outcomes. I for one would like more than anything to see change if only because I'm fed up with the repeated harm that happens day in and day out. It's one thing to be anti medicine but most sick people have no idea what to do besides seek help from either mainstream or alternative physicians. We really do need a sensible system in place that guides people through healing rather than making matters worse.
     
  14. j.

    j. Guest

    It's revealing that something so easy to show cannot be assimilated by the current system. To show it works, all you need to do is have the person cover their faces with their two hands, with a curve so that more co2 remains in the air he is breathing, and then ask if he feels better oxygenated after breathing a few times.
     
  15. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    You're absolutely right, and that's exactly the problem. I don't know you or your background but you seem intelligent and you have already figured it out. Medicine is that dogmatic, closed minded and absolutely refuses to change in my experience. I can tell you this, I have helped people when it was only the two of us but you better believe if anyone caught wind of it I'd lose my licence in 2 seconds flat. Out in the world beyond medicine we allow a certain level of creativity and experimentation. I'm afraid something like what you describe will have to happen in a lab through experimentation first and good luck getting funding for that! If some brave enlightened soul can prove the benefits of CO2(Peat has) I wonder still if it will actually change the practice of medicine. Does medicine really want people to get better? I would hope so but I do wonder sometimes. If it cut into certain budgets I guarantee it would be silenced just like the aspirin and AIDS study Peat spoke of in the recent radio interview.
     
  16. mas

    mas Member

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    Blossom, I have a question:
    Here is another thing to consider- the CPAP industry is now huge and as I read CFS/FM, MS and Sjogrens forums still (when I got sick 9 years ago my doctor was looking for MS) it seems that doctors are sending lots of people with all kinds of diseases for that overnight hospital testing and they find loads of people who do have the apnea.

    Do you know what the O2/CO2 would be in that CPAP?

    Thank goodness I didn't have that sleep apnea test because there is no way in hell that I would sleep with that device strapped to my face!

    Thanks.
     
  17. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    CPAP stands for continuous positive airway pressure and is usually just the room air pressurized to a level determined by a physician. I think of it as simply taking one below sea level to varying degrees. Supplemental oxygen can be added but isn't always deemed necessary. In theory the pressurized air simply keeps the lungs partially inflated so a person will continue to oxygenate even if they stop breathing. Medicine never adds CO2 to CPAP. I did read an interesting post on the Danny Roddy Weblog several months back where a guy wrote in and said he placed dry ice by the air intake valve on his CPAP to add in CO2. I thought that was creative. I wonder if the people who report feeling better from CPAP aren't really feeling a bit high off adrenaline from hyperventilating all night? I know from my personal experience only about 20% of the people prescribed these machines actually use them. I think people must intuitively know they aren't good.
     
  18. OP
    aquaman

    aquaman Member

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    I got my diamox yesterday - took one pill about 5pm. It may be coincidence because I've been sick for 2 days, but last night I think I peed about 12 times during the night! Will see if this continues on the Diamox.
     
  19. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Wow! Yes I hope that is a coincidence too. I feel I had to pee more at first but nothing that dramatic. Good luck!
     
  20. Mittir

    Mittir Member

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    Sleep Apnea

    My cousin ,age 31, was having sleep apnea problem recently and
    he snores real loud during sleep. I recommended him bag breathing 3 times a day
    for 2 minutes and wait till 3 days to decide if it is working or not.
    He thought i was joking. After few days he was grinning and told me
    sleep apnea does not happen any more and his snoring is very mild now.
    He is a very healthy person with no other health issues. This is why
    bag breathing fixed it quickly. I can see how health get worse
    once people cross 30, with all the PUFA and toxin accumulation.

    CO2 and pH

    I tried large dose ( 1-2 tsp) of baking soda for a while. It increased frequency of
    urination and i felt real bad after few days. I believe it is the loss of minerals
    in excess urination and baking soda causing change in pH.
    If i drank 8 oz carbonated water more than 3-4 times a week i noticed
    worsening of symptoms and it took me long time to figure out that soda was
    causing problem. Even regular club soda was causing problem.
    Since then i have increased all alkaline mineral intake, especially calcium.
    Now i can safely drink 8 oz of carbonated water daily without any symptoms.
    Baking soda and CO2 are powerful ingredients.

    Bag Breathing

    For CO2, i do regular bag breathing 4 times a day and only for one and a half minute.
    It has been very helpful. I used to do a lot of Yoga breathing exercise ( 20 minutes,
    twice a day, 4-5 sets of exercise with a lot of rest in between sets). It was extremely
    helpful and i was always puzzled how this simple exercise has so much power.
    They have their yogic explanation how less breathing preserve prana .
    After reading RP now i have a more scientific view of CO2 and good health.
     
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