Best Supplement To Reduce And Avoid Scar Tissue?

[GorillaHead]

going to be getting a revision rhinoplasty soon. What’s the best supplement(s) you guys think will help speed healing reduce swelling and really reduce the buildup of scar tissue ?

Thank you

 

[boris]

https://www.researchgate.net/post/Sugar_for_wounds

I think I remember Peat writig how sugar was used in war times to put on wounds and the wounds would heal without or minimal scars.

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I found it:

“Applying glucose and insulin topically to the wound, it heals quickly. The very old practice of treating deep wounds with honey or granulated sugar has been studied in controlled situations, including the treatment of diabetic ulcers, infected deep wounds following heart surgery, and wounds of lepers. The treatment eradicates bacterial infections better than some antiseptics, and accelerates healing without scarring, or with minimal scarring. The sugar regulates the communication between cells, and optimizes the synthesis of collagen and extracellular matrix.” -Ray Peat, PhD

Theurapeutic Honey – Cancer and Wound Healing – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
Granulated Sugar as Healer – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

 

[ecstatichamster]

Proteolytic enzymes are also very good.

 

[jzeno]

Sugar on the wound/dressing.

Effects of honey and sugar dressings on wound healing. - PubMed - NCBI

There's many studies documenting it's ability to increase wound healing and decrease the formation of scars.

 

[Korven]

Sugar on the wound/dressing.

Effects of honey and sugar dressings on wound healing. - PubMed - NCBI

There's many studies documenting it's ability to increase wound healing and the appearance of scars.

For the past 3 months I've been using honey as a facial wash and typically let it sit on my face for about 10-15 minutes before rinsing off. Just noticed that my acne scars have improved quite a bit and I'm not that bothered by them anymore, though I have also done one microneedling session so that probably helped a lot too.

 

[GorillaHead]

Anything more on the internal side. I am worried more about internal scarring.

 

[Lejeboca]

I remember Dr. Peat mentioning that embryo wounds heal perfectly, while adult ones may scar. The paper below explains why and is a rather entertaining yet scientifically sound read.
Scar-free healing: from embryonic mechanisms to adult therapeutic intervention.

Some subtopics also discussed in the paper:

• ...common but frequently neglected observations are in keeping with the molecular mechanisms underlying embryonic scar-free healing and experimental manipulation of adult wounds to heal without scarring. Collectively, these observations suggest a different intellectual paradigm for scarring and regeneration. This would suggest that the mechanisms underlying regeneration and scarring are similar, subtle and interchangeable. The paradigm would further suggest that they exist in many adult tissues and organs and that subtle alteration of the signalling environment of the healing wound can produce dramatically different outcomes. The most exciting conclusion from this is that improved scar-free healing (partial regeneration) or complete regeneration may be a more easily and rapidly attainable therapeutic outcome in man than has previously been thought.
• Despite these numerous small injuries and the incorporation of considerable amounts of foreign material, tattoos normally heal perfectly with no scars.
• The above considerations of subtle alterations in signaling molecules, e.g. TGFbeta3 versus TGFbeta1, cells and context can be used to explain known clinical variables in scarring in man (Bayat et al. 2003). Thus for example, it is known that the severity of scarring varies by:
  (i) tissue site, e.g. gums (which regenerate) versus the deltoid region of the skin (which scars badly)—see earlier;
  (ii) sex (fertile females scar worse than postmenopausal females and males as oestrogen has a major influence on wound healing) (Ashcroft et al. 1997a);
  (iii) race (in general Negroids and Mongoloids i.e. coloured skin races scar worse than Caucasians);
  (iv) age, young people, particularly teenagers and those n their twenties scar worse than older people (Ashcroft et al. 1997b,c); and
  (v) magnitude of injury and wound contamination (the larger the wound and the more contaminated the wound, the worse the scar).

 

[Lejeboca]

Scar-free healing: from embryonic mechanisms to adult therapeutic intervention.

More quotes from the paper:

"[..]mammalian embryos develop surrounded by the sterile aqueous environment of the amniotic fluid, whereas adult wounds are exposed to air and numerous potential contaminating agents, e.g. bacteria, viruses, foreign bodies, etc. A particularly elegant demonstration of the irrelevance of the sterile, fluid, embryonic environment to scar-free healing was an ontological investigation of wound healing and scarring in the pouch young of the marsupial Monodelphis domestica (Armstrong & Ferguson 1995, 1997). Marsupial embryos are born at an early stage of immunological development, but at an advanced stage of skin development (the epidermal layer is well formed and highly keratinized to prevent dehydration of the pouch young on the mother’s nipple). Furthermore these early pouch young are regularly contaminated with maternal urine and faeces: in stark contrast to their eutherian counterparts in sterile amniotic fluid! Nonetheless, despite these striking differences, skin wounds on early pouch young of M. domestica heal perfectly with no scars, demonstrating the irrelevance of the external embryonic environment to scar-free healing (Armstrong & Ferguson 1995, 1997). Equally, adult sheep skin grafted to a sheep embryo and subsequently wounded heals with a scar (Longaker et al. 1994)."

"In rodents, scars are not normally stable and mature until some 80 days post-wounding. Likewise in man, scars are not normally mature and stable until at least six months post injury. Scarring has therefore been thought of as a late event in wound healing, predominantly involving extracellular matrix remodelling (Ferguson & Leigh 1998; Cherry et al. 2001)."

"[..]early intervention at the time of, or shortly after, wounding has two major consequences: (i) a small alteration in the early mediators, e.g. reduction of TGFB1, can have a major long-term effect due to alteration and reduction of these autoinductive regulatory cascades; and (ii) early in the healing process there are only a small number of major signalling molecules. As wound healing rapidly progresses, additional cytokines and growth factors are induced or secreted and a large number of overlapping and interacting cytokine cascades are established. These cascades have been evolutionarily optimized to be both robust and redundant, meaning that they can withstand considerable pertubations in the quantities and types of molecule present. A result of this is that later (after 48 hours) therapeutic or experimental interactions are difficult and produce much less significant effects on scarring compared with earlier interactions when the overlapping multiply redundant cascades have yet to be established."

"Thus timing of experimental or therapeutic intervention to produce adult scar-free healing is critical. In clinical practice, this timing is advantageous and not problematic. During surgical operations the time of wounding can be anticipated accurately and is precisely known: surgery is trauma by appointment! In the case of major traumatic injury, e.g. road traffic accidents, sporting injuries, domestic accidents, burns, violence, etc., patients are transported rapidly to the hospital, where any scar-improving drug could be appropriately administered, certainly within the 48 hour therapeutic period. Indeed, the observation that experimental or therapeutic agents appear necessary only in acute doses in the early phases of healing is a major clinical advantage obviating the necessity of developing long-term dosing strategies, ensuring patient compliance, etc. Scar-improving human pharmaceuticals will probably be given by the physician or surgeon acutely by direct intradermal injection into the margins of the wound (wound sites are normally anaesthetized with local anaesthetic to facilitate suturing, and/or the patient may be under a general anaesthetic thus rendering such simple methods of administration clinically acceptable)."

"Despite its morphological appearance, a skin scar is actually weaker than the normal skin."

"In evolutionary history sharp injuries, such as those inflicted by mechanical equipment, glass, surgical instruments, swords or bullets are very rare. In evolutionary history sharp, clean injuries such as those encountered in surgery or after the surgical debridement of a traumatic injury, are extremely rare, whereas in evolutionary history, sharp, clean injuries with close approximation of the wound margins such as those that occur after surgical repair by suturing or glues are completely unheard of. It is therefore obvious that the most common type of wound in contemporary man and animals, i.e. a wound made by a sharp object under clean or sterile conditions (or having been cleaned by debridement) and with its margins approximated by sutures, glues or bandages is a completely new evolutionary condition, which has arisen only in the past 500 years or so and is not a wound type that has been optimized by the evolutionary forces shaping wound-healing mechanisms. In brief, we hypothesize that this, the most common wound injury seen in contemporary man or animals, heals by inappropriate and suboptimal cellular and molecular mechanisms that have been phylogenetically selected over a long time period for the healing of a different type of wound (bite, blow, contusion, etc.) with different degrees of tissue damage, wound infection, widespread impalement of foreign bodies and different wound morphology (no approximation of the wound margins). The result of this evolutionary mismatch is a scar that can be excessive and debilitating even after minor injury, e.g. simple surgical incision under sterile conditions. We hypothesize that the normal response to a wound made with a sharp object under clean conditions and with apposition of its margins is inappropriate, indeed pathological, and that therapeutic manipulation of these normal but inappropriate healing mechanisms can result in an improved healing response of scar-free healing and/or tissue regeneration. Scarring, we submit, is essentially an evolutionary response to wall off foreign bodies and infection and to rapidly reconstitute semi-functional missing tissue. None of these considerations applies in modern wounds. We hypothesize that the normal healing response in these sharp, clean, margin approximated wounds is excessive, with inappropriate levels of inflammatory cells and mediators, inappropriate stimulation of granulation tissue and inappropriate fibrotic differentiation signals resulting in walling off and scarring."

"Although it has been well documented that certain adult amphibian parts can regenerate if removed, e.g. limbs, jaws, lens of the eye, etc. (see Imokawa et al. 2004), it is also true that other parts of the animal do not regenerate, e.g. retina of the eye and if an incisional wound is made on the flank of an axolotl it heals with a scar. Therefore in the same primitive amphibian, under certain circumstances, particular tissues undergo a regenerative response whereas others undergo a scarring response. Equally, in mammalian livers, if two-thirds of the liver mass is removed by partial hepatectomy, the remaining liver regenerates (Fausto 2000). By contrast, if a stab incisional wound is made into the same liver, it heals with a scar."

"In human adults, the oral mucosa and gums scar little (if at all) after surgical incision, whereas an identical surgical incision e.g. 1 cm cut, will scar much worse if made on the skin covering the deltoid region and sternum of the chest than for example on the face, abdomen or legs. It is clear that, even in man, there are tissue-specific and regional variations in regeneration and the severity of scarring."

"These observations indicate that regeneration is not necessarily a specialized response restricted only to amphibians and lower animals and completely different from the repair we associate with common injuries in adult mammals."

"Why do these small skin wounds heal with perfect regeneration even in man? From our studies we conclude that the mechanisms are similar to those involved in embryonic scar-free healing and in our experimental manipulations of animal and human wounds. Thus small skin wounds elicit minimal blood clotting and platelet degranulation and consequently show low levels of early TGFB1. Small skin wounds also elicit a minimal inflammatory response, again resulting in low levels of TGFB1 and TGFB2 as well as other inflammatory mediators. Small skin wounds are exposed to higher levels of TGFB3, which is synthesized by overlying keratinocytes and adjacent fibroblasts and which rapidly diffuses into the small wound compared with the distant cellular sources and poor diffusion present in a larger wound. Small skin wounds have minimal amounts of missing tissue, show minimal granulation tissue formation and presumably receive important cues and signals from the surrounding tissues, e.g. appropriate cytokine signals such as TGFB3, appropriate extracellular matrix substrates (as opposed to fibrin), thus facilitating normal cell alignment and tensile forces. As in scar-free embryonic wound healing, the duration of the response phase of healing is short. By contrast, in an incisional or excisional wound, the wound space is initially filled with fibrin and numerous degranulating platelets which release large amounts of TGFB1. There is poor diffusion of TGFB3 from surrounding epithelial and fibroblast cells; there is prolonged and sustained inflammation with the release of TGFB1 and other inflammatory mediators; there is recruitment of additional cells to the wound site whose alignment is often inappropriate; and there are altered tensile forces on the wound and the healing response is prolonged and evolutionarily inappropriately optimized to wall off foreign material or generate copious granulation tissue (i.e. a scarring response)."

"[..]identical growth factors in different combinations can produce dramatically different outcomes. The initial priming signal for liver regeneration is the simultaneous effects of interleukin 6 and TNF alpha (Yamada et al. 1997; Fausto 2000; Campbell et al. 2001). Interestingly, TNF alpha on its own elicits a pro-inflammatory scarring response such as one might see following a stab injury to the liver, which results in a scar. Thus one of the signals for liver regeneration is not a novel regenerative molecule, but rather the coincident signalling of a pro-inflammatory cytokine!"

 

[GorillaHead]

Tgfb1 has been a serious problem for many issues. And keeping its expression low is crucial. Unfortunately I am unaware of potent ways to do it

 

[Motorneuron]

Tgfb1 è stato un problema serio per molte questioni. E mantenere la sua espressione bassa è fondamentale. Sfortunatamente non sono a conoscenza di modi potenti per farlo

What is TGF Beta? + Factors that May Inhibit/Increase It - SelfHacked

TGF-b might play a role in autoimmune diseases, food intolerances & other diseases. Learn what it does & how to increase your levels.

selfhacked.com

 

[GorillaHead]

What is TGF Beta? + Factors that May Inhibit/Increase It - SelfHacked

TGF-b might play a role in autoimmune diseases, food intolerances & other diseases. Learn what it does & how to increase your levels.

selfhacked.com

Nothing in that list does it the way we need it. At least 90% of that list is useless. They have indirect affects. Hell just about anything u eat can be found to reduce it in someway

 

[Motorneuron]

Nothing in that list does it the way we need it. At least 90% of that list is useless. They have indirect affects. Hell just about anything u eat can be found to reduce it in someway

Not even oral and topical vitamin D? am I talking about the connective tissue fibrosis in this case...or maybe also the retinol and progesterone?

 

[L_C]

Older thread. I am hoping you healed just fine. Unsure how peaty it is but Arnica speeds up healing...

 

[Highserotonin90]

@GorillaHead Do you feel like recommending something for oral and topical use if we aim to keep that receptor low?

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

going to be getting a revision rhinoplasty soon. What’s the best supplement(s) you guys think will help speed healing reduce swelling and really reduce the buildup of scar tissue ?

Thank you

MSM and progesterone on the scar.