B Vitamins - Anxiety / Tension/ Hyperactivity

[maillol]

I have tried thiamine, p5p, normal b6 and niacinamide and I seem to get this same feeling from all of them that usually fades away over about 3 days. Does anyone have any idea what this could be?

I've just started reading about methylation and to be honest I don't really understand it but I gather b vitamins are involved and wonder if there could be something going on there.

 

[somuch4food]

Do you get enough calories? I had a B complex that prevented me from falling asleep before, but now I'm fine with it. The major thing I did was a sort of refeeding. I'm guessing I was low on calories or another cofactor.

I did think methylation was an issue for me and I did better on a methylated complex.

Or it might be magnesium...

 

[inurendotoxin]

I'm experimenting recently with Chamomile tea as an anxiety control measure. It seems to be helping.

I've been a religious coffee drinker for well over a decade now. I need it in order to function, but I suspect baseline anxiety is cranked up in the long run as a long term 'side'.

I also get severe muscle tension for no discernible reason... I'm sure it's all connected.

My ideal is to 'balance' the two throughout the day so I can keep the alertness and energy from the coffee, but offset anxiety with the Chamomile.

B vitamins might also help, but Chamomile is worth a try.


Some supporting quotes for Chamomile from another RP thread:

Chamomile contains apigenin which relaxes the nervous system/adrenals.

Yep, apigenin is a potent GABA agonist, a cortisol reducer, and aromatase inhibitor. Basically, what progesterone does and that is not surprising considering apigenin is a phytoprogestogen.
Phytoprogestogen - Wikipedia.

Full thread here: Chamomile Knocks Me Out

 

[maillol]

Do you get enough calories? I had a B complex that prevented me from falling asleep before, but now I'm fine with it. The major thing I did was a sort of refeeding. I'm guessing I was low on calories or another cofactor.

I did think methylation was an issue for me and I did better on a methylated complex.

Or it might be magnesium...

I eat around 3000 calories so I doubt it's under eating. That's interesting about the methylated complex does that cause less methylation to occur in the body?

I'm experimenting recently with Chamomile tea as an anxiety control measure. It seems to be helping.

I've been a religious coffee drinker for well over a decade now. I need it in order to function, but I suspect baseline anxiety is cranked up in the long run as a long term 'side'.

I also get severe muscle tension for no discernible reason... I'm sure it's all connected.

My ideal is to 'balance' the two throughout the day so I can keep the alertness and energy from the coffee, but offset anxiety with the Chamomile.

B vitamins might also help, but Chamomile is worth a try.


Some supporting quotes for Chamomile from another RP thread:





Full thread here: Chamomile Knocks Me Out

Thanks I do enjoy a chamomile tea every now and again but I don't normally have problems relaxing it's only when I take B vitamins it seems.

 

[somuch4food]

That's interesting about the methylated complex does that cause less methylation to occur in the body?

From what I understand, it would cause more methylation. There seems to be a sweet spot for methyl donors. Low methylation is either a lack of methyl donors or cofactors: Methylation 101 | Deanna Minich

 

[maillol]

I have a new theory on this.

I get occasional bouts of asthma and when I can't fix it with anything else I resort to a few days of a clenil modulite inhaler which is a glucocorticoid. I've noticed when coming off it I get this same feeling as when I take B1, B3 or B6.

In theory the inhaler suppresses the natural production of cortisol which I imagine is the cause of this withdrawal feeling. I know you would imagine low cortisol to have the opposite effect to anxiety but maybe it's a case where adrenaline is stepping in to make up for it, I'm stipulating.

I believe these B vitamins are known to lower cortisol. Perhaps my natural cortisol production is low anyway and the B vitamins are lowing it too much creating the same effect.

What do you think?

 

[redsun]

I have a new theory on this.

I get occasional bouts of asthma and when I can't fix it with anything else I resort to a few days of a clenil modulite inhaler which is a glucocorticoid. I've noticed when coming off it I get this same feeling as when I take B1, B3 or B6.

In theory the inhaler suppresses the natural production of cortisol which I imagine is the cause of this withdrawal feeling. I know you would imagine low cortisol to have the opposite effect to anxiety but maybe it's a case where adrenaline is stepping in to make up for it, I'm stipulating.

I believe these B vitamins are known to lower cortisol. Perhaps my natural cortisol production is low anyway and the B vitamins are lowing it too much creating the same effect.

What do you think?

B3 and B6 acutely raises histamine. B1 doesnt directly raise histamine but by raising acetylcholine it can have similar effects because Ach is quite similar to histamine in its effects and can release it if I recall. B6 is directly needed for the HDC enzyme so taking it (especially active P5P) will force conversion of histidine to histamine.

Glucocorticoids suppress histamine for example by lowering HDC activity which is the enzyme which converts histidine to histamine. This is what natural cortisol is supposed to do in your body. That's why withdrawal of inhaler is similar to taking B1, B3, and B6 because all three raise histamine directly or indirectly and when you withdrawal from glucocorticoid you have less cortisol to stop histamine with.

 

[maillol]

B3 and B6 acutely raises histamine. B1 doesnt directly raise histamine but by raising acetylcholine it can have similar effects because Ach is quite similar to histamine in its effects and can release it if I recall. B6 is directly needed for the HDC enzyme so taking it (especially active P5P) will force conversion of histidine to histamine.

Glucocorticoids suppress histamine for example by lowering HDC activity which is the enzyme which converts histidine to histamine. This is what natural cortisol is supposed to do in your body. That's why withdrawal of inhaler is similar to taking B1, B3, and B6 because all three raise histamine directly or indirectly and when you withdrawal from glucocorticoid you have less cortisol to stop histamine with.

Interesting. So you think it does point to low cortisol levels? Presumably if I had sufficient cortisol I wouldn't have any problems countering the histamine increase from the B vitamins?

Is histamine known to provoke an adrenaline-like feeling?

 

[redsun]

Interesting. So you think it does point to low cortisol levels? Presumably if I had sufficient cortisol I wouldn't have any problems countering the histamine increase from the B vitamins?

Is histamine known to provoke an adrenaline-like feeling?

Cortisol feeds sugar into the blood so part of the sugar metabolism. If all of a sudden your cortisol drops (withdrawal) you have less sugar in the blood and because your own cortisol is weak because of the medication your adrenaline shoots up in the mean time to force fat in the blood.

I mean your cortisol is definitely lower because of the medication. Question is if you are completely off it do your own cortisol levels bounce back.

 

[maillol]

Cortisol feeds sugar into the blood so part of the sugar metabolism. If all of a sudden your cortisol drops (withdrawal) you have less sugar in the blood and because your own cortisol is weak because of the medication your adrenaline shoots up in the mean time to force fat in the blood.

I mean your cortisol is definitely lower because of the medication. Question is if you are completely off it do your own cortisol levels bounce back.

I rarely take it for more than a few days every few months. The withdrawal symptoms only last a couple of days so I assume that means my own cortisol has bounced back, but I wonder if it is bouncing back to only just sufficient rather than optimal levels.

 

[redsun]

I rarely take it for more than a few days every few months. The withdrawal symptoms only last a couple of days so I assume that means my own cortisol has bounced back, but I wonder if it is bouncing back to only just sufficient rather than optimal levels.

Yeh it bounced back to whatever it was beforehand. So what you would have to do is test cortisol and see if it is low or not. I am not sure what the best cortisol test is, I believe it is blood.

 

[EIRE24]

Cortisol feeds sugar into the blood so part of the sugar metabolism. If all of a sudden your cortisol drops (withdrawal) you have less sugar in the blood and because your own cortisol is weak because of the medication your adrenaline shoots up in the mean time to force fat in the blood.

I mean your cortisol is definitely lower because of the medication. Question is if you are completely off it do your own cortisol levels bounce back.

Would taking a B complex be a bad idea daily then?

 

[maillol]

Would taking a B complex be a bad idea daily then?

I think most people want to lower their cortisol so generally it is fine. It's only if you're coming off glucocorticoids like me or your natural cortisol production is impaired for some other reason that it might be a bad idea.

 

[redsun]

Would taking a B complex be a bad idea daily then?

Bad for what exactly? It can be good for some issues, bad for others.