P5P (a form of B6) Toxicity

[j.]

I found some people on the internet claiming they had neuropathy symptoms from the P5P form of vitamin B6, the one that's supposed to be safer. One used a coated tablet, other sublingual. Maybe some additives caused the problem, not the P5P. One claimed later B12 supplementation cured the problems.

These are anecdotes, rumors, but caught my attention and here they are:

I developed B6 toxicity while using the co-enzymated form of B6 (P5P). Thus far I've not seen anything on the internet that suggests this can occur-which is why I wanted especially to post this.

For me, I began to experience neuropathy symptoms 2 days after starting the P5P. I was using the enteric coated tablet form of P5P, and taking 33mg Coenzymated Vitamin B-6 (from 50mg P5P), twice a day.

Read the rest

So, all my research on P5P indicates that it is supposedly without the risks of regular B6. However, I have just experienced the unfortunate effects of B6 toxictiy after just a few days on P5P. I have so far found 4 or 5 others who have had similar experiences.

I took 50mg of P5P in sublingual form on day 1 and I experienced notable anxiety and irritation for about 4 hours afterwards. On day 2 I broke up the dose into two 25mg doses and noticed some mild anxiety after each dose. Day 3 I did the same and noticed a mild tingling in my left foot. Day 4 I dosed the same and noticed profound burning and tingling in both foot and my left hand. I stopped immediately.

It's been about a week and the symptoms have intensified.

7 months later...

I wanted to post a resolution to this as I finally recovered.

I took MASSIVE amounts of methylcobalamin and the neuropathy resolved literally in hours...then returned slowly over the next day (perhaps when the B12 was fully utilized). I repeated this process a few times and the neuropathy is completely gone.

Read more.

 

[charlie]

j thanks for making this thread. I am literally sitting here at this moment trying to figure out what I am going to do about this B6 stuff. If I stop taking it, my dermatitis is going to get really bad. In the meantime I am going to back off aspirin, coffee, and lisuride to help it out. But I am really at a loss on what to do here. I don't have any symptoms of neuropathy. But there is the concern what if its building up in my body and at any moment things could turn south. I will definitely keep the B12 in mind though if nerve damage does kick in.

 

[j.]

I wonder if it would be a good practice to take B12 with it. But I don't think one can just think of it and do it, to know the effects of B6 with B12 one would need research and serious studies, speculating on that sounds to me more risky than many of the things we tend to do here...

How much do you take? These P5P experiences are of at least 33 mg. I don't know what is the lowest dose for harm in the other form.

 

[charlie]

400mgs a day right now. But now that I have upped the lisuride to 1/2 pill, the dermatitis is cranking up again because my metabolism is being pushed hard by it, along with all the sun I have been getting the last few days. Probably 600-700mgs would stop the dermatitis again. But I just cannot bring myself to take that much. So I have decided to back off of pushing up the metabolism until I can get a better grasp of this whole B6 thing.

 

[j.]

If it happens, it seems scary stuff. Like you don't know where in space your right foot is...

 

[charlie]

I actually had it before(not from supplementing but from diabetes and foot injury along with quack prescribed medicines), I know what its like.

 

[j.]

I don't know anything about B6 other than what I just started reading today. For the moment I don't know if P5P really is the safer form, some speculate it's a claim encouraged by drug companies to sell the more expensive P5P form.

 

[charlie]

No way man, "they" would never do THAT!

 

[j.]

One thing to think about is how much of the other B vitamins do natural sources of B6 contain, including B12. Hopefully a research project for an actual scientist some day.

 

[j.]

There is an argument that the P5P form doesn't occur in food, so it's actually more unnatural to take it in that form.

 

[j.]

I wonder if monthly blood tests of B6 would be a good strategy for someone without symptoms.

 

[j.]

Hazel nuts are relatively low in PUFA and have some B6. Beef liver seems the best source of B6. If I took B6, maybe I would add a little bit to liver and take it with it.

 

[j.]

Maybe an alternative strategy would be to lower the requirements of vitamin B6, by lowering estrogen, maybe with optimum vitamin E supplementation.

 

[Suikerbuik]

I'd take about 10-20 mg B6 a day.

B6 is probably said to be toxic if the converson the liver to PLP (or P5P) isn't sufficient and thus B6 can accumulate (not sure what the mechanism is), aggraveted by an insufficient metabolism that can't clear out.

PLP is said to be toxic in a way that the phosphated form can be taken up in cells without conversion in the liver. So the chance is your cells take up much higher amounts than they need. Maybe PLP can be converted to B6 by some phosphatase?? I don't know, just in that case P5P --> B6.

 

[j.]

I wonder if these people who had trouble had wrecked metabolisms, and people who have dandruff already have a fast enough metabolism to not cause issues.

 

[Suikerbuik]

Then the dose is just too high, rate of clearance and conversion isn't unlimited.. Nor I said it was the only mechanism, it is known to aggravate it in some situations.

we don't know much yet at molecular level. Only know that the body isn't lying.

 

[j.]

Wikipedia:

One study reported that over a 6-month period or longer, 21% of women taking doses greater than 50 mg daily experienced neurological toxicity.

Study

 

[j.]

Maybe it's time to reconsider bananas. Pineapples are one of the best sources. Grapes have some.

 

[charlie]

Maybe an alternative strategy would be to lower the requirements of vitamin B6, by lowering estrogen, maybe with optimum vitamin E supplementation.

Yep, my estrogen shot up when I stopped taking Estroban. Not sure what to do about that now because haidut is gone for 3 weeks.

Maybe it's time to reconsider bananas. Pineapples are one of the best sources. Grapes have some.

I eat bananas and pineapples, and plenty of liver.

 

[Such_Saturation]

How about using B6 on the affected skin only?