Are Oxalates A Concern?

[reality]

If I eat high oxalate foods with a meal containing calcium, will the amount of calcium absorbed be limited?

Ie Greek yogurt with blueberries/raspberries ... will the oxalates bind calcium?

 

[Dutchie]

Oxalates bind to calcium (and magnesium). They can cause a host of problems. So,when oxalates bind to it,you don't absorb the calcium/magnesium anymore.
Jodelle interviewed Sally Norton on it a while ago.

 

[Blossom]

Thank you @Dutchie for this is excellent interview.

 

[Dutchie]

Thank you @Dutchie for this is excellent interview.

You're welcome. I found it an enlightening interview with lots of good info.

"Every molecule of oxalate you absorb is a molecule of calcium you take from your bones."
....this especially rang a bell for me. Last year I had very severe reactions when being in the sunlight, I'd get such painful legs and difficulty walking and keeping balance. I also often felt pain in my upper back and neck.
At the time I wasn't eating the occasional goat cream cheese,nor used calcium powder nor was mindful of using Vit.C and collagen. So,when I heard this it immediately made me think that I'd probably experienced these issues especially in sunlight bc calcium was taken out of my bones. *eek*
I wonder if this oxalate issue/dumping is also the cause of my menstruation having stopped last year...

 

[yashi]

nor was mindful of using Vit.C and collagen.

Not trying to scare you, nor saying I know if this is a huge issue. But I have seen some statements that excess Vit C and Collagen (I think the hydroxyprolin in it) can be made into oxalate in the body. Just something to be mindful of if sensitive to oxalates or coming off of green smoothies and almonds from a previous diet.

 

[Blossom]

You're welcome. I found it an enlightening interview with lots of good info.

"Every molecule of oxalate you absorb is a molecule of calcium you take from your bones."
....this especially rang a bell for me. Last year I had very severe reactions when being in the sunlight, I'd get such painful legs and difficulty walking and keeping balance. I also often felt pain in my upper back and neck.
At the time I wasn't eating the occasional goat cream cheese,nor used calcium powder nor was mindful of using Vit.C and collagen. So,when I heard this it immediately made me think that I'd probably experienced these issues especially in sunlight bc calcium was taken out of my bones. *eek*
I wonder if this oxalate issue/dumping is also the cause of my menstruation having stopped last year...

Yes, going low oxalate has been life changing to say the least. All of my mystery ailments are gone except for brief and mild periodic dumping which typically resolves in a day or two. I’m glad you figured it out too. Hopefully you can avoid osteoporosis.

 

[Dutchie]

Not trying to scare you, nor saying I know if this is a huge issue. But I have seen some statements that excess Vit C and Collagen (I think the hydroxyprolin in it) can be made into oxalate in the body. Just something to be mindful of if sensitive to oxalates or coming off of green smoothies and almonds from a previous diet.

Thanks @yashi ...that's actually what I meant to say with that comment. :)
Last year I didn't know this,but a couple of months ago I learned about it,so now I'm being mindful when using vit.C and/or collagen.
It's the combination of hydroxyproline and glycine.
It started bc I was taking some glycine powder to balance out the muscle meat that I ate,but I started to get more adverse reactions....the most noticable one when I eat and use glycine/collagen or ascorbic acid, my bladder becomes overactive.
I usually take a very modest tsp of collagen in the morning,but I notice afterwards when I'm out walking,my legs start to hurt, so I'm thinking I might have to stop the collagen. Just don't know what I'm going to eat then,that's quick and easy to grab bc I don't tolerate eggs so no cooked eggs as a quick grab 'n go.

 

[Dutchie]

Yes, going low oxalate has been life changing to say the least. All of my mystery ailments are gone except for brief and mild periodic dumping which typically resolves in a day or two. I’m glad you figured it out too. Hopefully you can avoid osteoporosis.

The mysterious sunlight sensitivity seems to have become better.
Ever since Peating/Eat4Heat years ago I started to wake up at night to pee, everyday. For a long time I woke 3 hours after I went to bed, than since around this year it aften happened after 5 - 6 hours after I went to bed.
The past few days all of a sudden it became after 3 hours again for a couple of night AND about 4 hours after I would need to get up again bc I felt uncomfortable pressure on my bladder/lower belly area that prevented me from staying asleep. Last night I only woke after 5 hours again.
I'm eating nothing out of the ordinary so I wonder why this happens and changes so drastically.....I was thinking if it could be related to oxalate dumping? (as I've read that dumping mostly happens in the evening and at night.)

Also the amount of sleep I need steadily keeps on increasing each year. I feel like I'm becoming a cat,sleeping half of my life away.

 

[Blossom]

The mysterious sunlight sensitivity seems to have become better.
Ever since Peating/Eat4Heat years ago I started to wake up at night to pee, everyday. For a long time I woke 3 hours after I went to bed, than since around this year it aften happened after 5 - 6 hours after I went to bed.
The past few days all of a sudden it became after 3 hours again for a couple of night AND about 4 hours after I would need to get up again bc I felt uncomfortable pressure on my bladder/lower belly area that prevented me from staying asleep. Last night I only woke after 5 hours again.
I'm eating nothing out of the ordinary so I wonder why this happens and changes so drastically.....I was thinking if it could be related to oxalate dumping? (as I've read that dumping mostly happens in the evening and at night.)

Also the amount of sleep I need steadily keeps on increasing each year. I feel like I'm becoming a cat,sleeping half of my life away.

I hope this is just a dump that resolves soon.

 

[Dutchie]

I hope this is just a dump that resolves soon.

It's an ever ongoing dump for years now IF it is due to dumping. That's the thing,that I'm left guessing bc specialists I've seen surely have never been able to offer solutions.

 

[Blossom]

It's an ever ongoing dump for years now IF it is due to dumping. That's the thing,that I'm left guessing bc specialists I've seen surely have never been able to offer solutions.

Oxalate doesn’t seem to be recognized much in medical circles. How long have you been eating low ox?

 

[Dutchie]

Oxalate doesn’t seem to be recognized much in medical circles. How long have you been eating low ox?

Consciously low/no ox. for a couple of months.
However looking back,my food sources unknowingly became lower about the last 3 year (but I still took a good anount of ascorbic acid daily).

 

[Blossom]

Consciously low/no ox. for a couple of months.
However looking back,my food sources unknowingly became lower about the last 3 year (but I still took a good anount of ascorbic acid daily).

I started in the spring of 19 and by August my urinary symptoms were 90% improved-so about 4 months. I now believe my early drastic improvement with (my version of) Peat style eating was due to reducing oxalate. Are you a member of the Trying Low Oxalate Facebook group?

 

[Dutchie]

I started in the spring of 19 and by August my urinary symptoms were 90% improved-so about 4 months. I now believe my early drastic improvement with (my version of) Peat style eating was due to reducing oxalate. Are you a member of the Trying Low Oxalate Facebook group?

Yes and also the TLO Spreadsheet group. I have to say though that you can't just quickly ask a question, it often takes weeks (at least in my case) before it's permitted and often I need to resubmit (thus wait another couple of weeks) bc of some small technicality in the post that I need to change.
This nighttime peeing started ever since I started Peating/Eat4Heat years ago and never went away since.

Did you measure or calculate your supplementation of calcium on carnivore? I just saw that a lot of the (limited) things I eat contain either lots of proline (lamb , cabbage) or glycine (salmon,mackerel,herring).
I don't know what it is but lately whenever I see someone eat chicken drumsticks or shrimp, I want that too (drumstick with skin!). However I can't find a decent source or affordable of either two.
The shrimp I would like to get are all farmed in Vietnam,not a good source and well the drumsticks have lots of O6 pufas.

 

[Andman]

@Dutchie maybe its the vitC? apparently theres huge purity issues with ascorbic acid

 

[Dave Clark]

Escaping oxalates might be next to impossible if you are eating a healthy diet of vegetables, etc. along with your meat and dairy (looking at the lists, I see very few plants that have no oxalates). I haven't heard Dr. Peat mention anything about oxalates in particular, but it could be another reason he suggests getting good amounts of calcium, to make up from any calcium lose due to oxalate binding. Dairy or egg shells should take care of any issues with that. I think a diet of foods that contain absolutely no oxalates is a boring diet to me, and most likely having enough calcium would prevent problems with them, unless you had a sensitivity to oxalates. Just my current opinion, but I feel instead, to just stay away from foods that are 'notoriously' high in oxalates like spinach, chard, etc.

 

[Blossom]

Did you measure or calculate your supplementation of calcium on carnivore?

I’ve been using a tsp. of eggshell powder each day in divided doses with meals. I believe that should be 800-1000 mg.
Creative Ways to Use Eggshells in Recipes, Toothpaste & More | Wellness Mama
I haven’t really asked any questions in the TLO group so I didn’t realize the response time was so poor. I had heard from a member here that one of the mods treated her very rudely though. That’s sad.

 

[Dutchie]

@Dutchie maybe its the vitC? apparently theres huge purity issues with ascorbic acid

Thanks.... I did already stop using it for a couple of months.
I now only use some calcium ascorbate (probably not even half a tsp).

 

[Dutchie]

Escaping oxalates might be next to impossible if you are eating a healthy diet of vegetables, etc. along with your meat and dairy (looking at the lists, I see very few plants that have no oxalates). I haven't heard Dr. Peat mention anything about oxalates in particular, but it could be another reason he suggests getting good amounts of calcium, to make up from any calcium lose due to oxalate binding. Dairy or egg shells should take care of any issues with that. I think a diet of foods that contain absolutely no oxalates is a boring diet to me, and most likely having enough calcium would prevent problems with them, unless you had a sensitivity to oxalates. Just my current opinion, but I feel instead, to just stay away from foods that are 'notoriously' high in oxalates like spinach, chard, etc.

You're right there aren't much plantfoods that are low. I've been eating steamed cabbage daily for almost 2 years now in regards to plantfoods.
I also don't eat according to Peat principles as in high carbs, don't tolerate eggs and dairy (no matter how much guthealing I've done). Lately,I've been experimenting with some goat cream cheese every 3 - 4 days. It's not the worst,but the results also remain questionable.
I have bougth this coral calciumpowder supplement, but I'm a bit hesitant to take a good amount of it daily bc I don't have a proper K2 supplement and too much seems to worsen constipation (likely bc it counteracts iron).

Staying away from just high oxalate foods,at least at the moment, is not good enough since my endogenous oxalate production also seems to be easily triggered as I'm now also getting reactions from it when I take too much gelatin.

 

[Dutchie]

I’ve been using a tsp. of eggshell powder each day in divided doses with meals. I believe that should be 800-1000 mg.
Creative Ways to Use Eggshells in Recipes, Toothpaste & More | Wellness Mama
I haven’t really asked any questions in the TLO group so I didn’t realize the response time was so poor. I had heard from a member here that one of the mods treated her very rudely though. That’s sad.

LOL....I think I know who he/she was referring to.
Since I don't tolerate eggs,I figured using eggshell calcium probably wasn't such a good idea so I bought a bottle of coral calcium instead. Not to mention that I really had a hard time even finding an eggshell calcium supplement over here! I found one site online....a petstore that sells eggshell powder for animals.