Can Lactic Acid In Food Be Rendered Harmless?

[Sphagnum]

From my understanding, Ray not only felt that the body's natural production of lactic acid was detrimental to health, but that ingesting lactic acid in foods was also harmful, and thus, discouraged. I believe it was cultured dairy that he specified when he noticed troubling results in his own body.

I enjoy making homemade yogurt. I strain it very well, to where its basically only dry curds remaining. The main advantage for me is that its reduces the amount of fluids in my diet, which is already high from juice.
So I now have all that liquid left over, but it still holds nutritional value, specifically in the bio available calcium. Rather than waste it, I could cook with it (rice, oats, potatoes, etc.,) to still obtain the nutrition. BUT, the lactic acid would still be present, and if I'm doing this everyday then there is potential for problems down the road.

So is there anything I could do to alter the lactic acid left in the yogurt run-off into something harmless? For example, I have added powered egg shell (calcium carbonate) to orange juice resulting in calcium citrate and carbon gas, and I've also added egg shell to vinegar to create calcium acetate carbon gas. Now I'm not saying that calcium carbonate is harmful in anyway, I'm simply using that as an example of adding a base to an acid, resulting in something that is still safe to ingest.

I've tried to find this answer online, and on the forum, but I haven't had any luck. I'm also a layperson in terms of chemistry, so I can't reliably experiment myself.

 

[CastorTroy]

Just add some potassium/sodium bicarbonate and you're done. Bye lactic acid.

 

[Sphagnum]

Is the resulting potassium lactate, or sodium lactate fairly safe to ingest then? I forgot to mention it, but I wasn't really sure if it was the acidic molecule that was the issue, or if lactate itself was a problem and needed to be bound to something that would pass through the system.

I see both of those salts are used in various cosmetic formulas and are deemed safe in that respect, but that's different than something one would eat in appreciable quantities.

 

[AinmAnseo]

From my understanding, Ray not only felt that the body's natural production of lactic acid was detrimental to health, but that ingesting lactic acid in foods was also harmful, and thus, discouraged. I believe it was cultured dairy that he specified when he noticed troubling results in his own body.

I enjoy making homemade yogurt. I strain it very well, to where its basically only dry curds remaining. The main advantage for me is that its reduces the amount of fluids in my diet, which is already high from juice.
So I now have all that liquid left over, but it still holds nutritional value, specifically in the bio available calcium. Rather than waste it, I could cook with it (rice, oats, potatoes, etc.,) to still obtain the nutrition. BUT, the lactic acid would still be present, and if I'm doing this everyday then there is potential for problems down the road.

So is there anything I could do to alter the lactic acid left in the yogurt run-off into something harmless? For example, I have added powered egg shell (calcium carbonate) to orange juice resulting in calcium citrate and carbon gas, and I've also added egg shell to vinegar to create calcium acetate carbon gas. Now I'm not saying that calcium carbonate is harmful in anyway, I'm simply using that as an example of adding a base to an acid, resulting in something that is still safe to ingest.

I've tried to find this answer online, and on the forum, but I haven't had any luck. I'm also a layperson in terms of chemistry, so I can't reliably experiment myself.

Put homemade yogurt in strainer (Hatrigo 1-Gallon Extra Fine Mesh Large Stainless Steel Strainer). (on amazon)
Place a lid on the strainer and place it in the fridge.
Strain the yogurt for at least 8 hours, or up to 24 hours.
Put into glass bowl, pour liquid (whey and lactic acid) into sink.

This gives you the most delicious, creamy yogurt ever.

 

[GTW]

Same as citric acid, acetic acid, other carboxylic acids, lactic acid is metabolized to bicarbonate. Ringers lactate drip is used to rehydrate patients intravenously. In that case the lactate is a less problematic energy than glucose.
Lactic acid produced in muscle by anaerobic glycolysis is partly used to regenerate glucose\glycogen and partly oxidized directly for energy.
Amounts of lactate in foods don't contribute much to lactic acidosis pathology.
Perhaps there's some other problem with dairy and fermented foods? Biogenic amines?

 

[lamassu]

As far as I understand lactic acid (and lactate?) is thought to be a potential tumour promoter/oncogenic signal - dating back to Warburg.

Lactate vs. CO2 in wounds, sickness, and aging; the other approach to cancer

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

 

[lamassu]

Lactate is a key driver of diabetes/obesity, by promoting inflammation

A great study, demonstrating that in diabetes (just as in cancer) the so-called Warburg Effect (aerobic glycolysis) is as much a cause of those degenerative conditions as it is an effect of. The study below demonstrated that increased intracellular lactate results in robust increase in systemic...

raypeatforum.com

 

[GTW]

As far as I understand lactic acid (and lactate?) is thought to be a potential tumour promoter/oncogenic signal - dating back to Warburg.

Lactate vs. CO2 in wounds, sickness, and aging; the other approach to cancer

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Perhaps that's backwards. Tumors use glucose for energy\growth and generate lactate by anaerobic glycolysis.
Even in moderate exercise some lactate is generated in healthy metabolism.

 

[David PS]

Mitochondria and mortality

New descriptive sentence from the article here

raypeat.com

Lactated Ringer's solution: A salt solution that has\ been used to increase blood volume in treating shock; the lactate was apparently chosen as a buffer in place of bicarbonate, as a matter of convenience rather than physiology. This solution is toxic, partly because it contains the form of lactate produced by bacteria, but our own lactate, at higher concentrations, produces the same sorts of toxic effect, damaging mitochondria.

Preventively, avoiding foods containing lactic acid, such as yogurt and sauerkraut, would be helpful, since bacterial lactic acid is much more toxic than the type that we form under stress.

 

[GTW]

Mitochondria and mortality

New descriptive sentence from the article here

raypeat.com

Quoting from which authority?
Ringers lactate is still in common use.
Again, adverse effects at higher doses doesn't reflect on moderate and lower doses. Iodine, selenium, glucose (a reactive aldehyde), salt, water! All can be toxic.

 

[David PS]

Quoting from which authority?
Ringers lactate is still in common use.
Again, adverse effects at higher doses doesn't reflect on moderate and lower doses. Iodine, selenium, glucose (a reactive aldehyde), salt, water! All can be toxic.

Dr. Peat's articles are well foot-noted. Here is a link that more format-friendly.
2016 Mitochondria and mortality (Ray Peat)

In addition, the opening post to the thread below has additional information.

Probiotics Are Dangerous, Should Be Regulated As Drugs

As many forum users know, Peat has spoken against the use of probiotics and in some of his articles has even linked lactic acid producing bacteria to auto-immune conditions like such as Lupus, RA, and even MS. While recently he has been recommending a bacteriophage product from LEF, he is still...

raypeatforum.com

 

[lamassu]

Perhaps that's backwards. Tumors use glucose for energy\growth and generate lactate by anaerobic glycolysis.
Even in moderate exercise some lactate is generated in healthy metabolism.

Cancer Is NOT Addicted To Glucose, As Previously Thought

Little by little, the lies about cancer told for over 100 years start to fall apart. One of the last strongholds of the "traditional" view on cancer is that it is "addicted" to glucose and eating a high-carb diet fuels tumor growth. Evidence to the contrary has actually been available for...

raypeatforum.com

 

[xeliex]

Quoting from which authority?
Ringers lactate is still in common use.
Again, adverse effects at higher doses doesn't reflect on moderate and lower doses. Iodine, selenium, glucose (a reactive aldehyde), salt, water! All can be toxic.

It's very rare to see it in use. There is a surgeon in the icu that uses it in extreme cases when aggressive resuscitation is needed. It's not the go to iv solution like dextrose in a saline percentage mixture.

I think it seems to work under ischemic conditions to still create atp. Clearly not a state many are in and would not survive long term.

 

[xeliex]

From my understanding, Ray not only felt that the body's natural production of lactic acid was detrimental to health, but that ingesting lactic acid in foods was also harmful, and thus, discouraged. I believe it was cultured dairy that he specified when he noticed troubling results in his own body.

I enjoy making homemade yogurt. I strain it very well, to where its basically only dry curds remaining. The main advantage for me is that its reduces the amount of fluids in my diet, which is already high from juice.
So I now have all that liquid left over, but it still holds nutritional value, specifically in the bio available calcium. Rather than waste it, I could cook with it (rice, oats, potatoes, etc.,) to still obtain the nutrition. BUT, the lactic acid would still be present, and if I'm doing this everyday then there is potential for problems down the road.

So is there anything I could do to alter the lactic acid left in the yogurt run-off into something harmless? For example, I have added powered egg shell (calcium carbonate) to orange juice resulting in calcium citrate and carbon gas, and I've also added egg shell to vinegar to create calcium acetate carbon gas. Now I'm not saying that calcium carbonate is harmful in anyway, I'm simply using that as an example of adding a base to an acid, resulting in something that is still safe to ingest.

I've tried to find this answer online, and on the forum, but I haven't had any luck. I'm also a layperson in terms of chemistry, so I can't reliably experiment myself.

Man, I love my yogurt.

The more sour it is, the more I love it. Especially with added salt. I come from a Middle Eastern where households keep the starters alive for generations.

I think Ray had mentioned that Greek yogurt is fine as long as it's well strained. I remember him saying that. Greek yogurt is typically well strained. The way you make yours seem to be similar.

 

[Sphagnum]

Man, I love my yogurt.

The more sour it is, the more I love it. Especially with added salt. I come from a Middle Eastern where households keep the starters alive for generations.

I think Ray had mentioned that Greek yogurt is fine as long as it's well strained. I remember him saying that. Greek yogurt is typically well strained. The way you make yours seem to be similar.

Put homemade yogurt in strainer (Hatrigo 1-Gallon Extra Fine Mesh Large Stainless Steel Strainer). (on amazon)
Place a lid on the strainer and place it in the fridge.
Strain the yogurt for at least 8 hours, or up to 24 hours.
Put into glass bowl, pour liquid (whey and lactic acid) into sink.

This gives you the most delicious, creamy yogurt.

Yes, my yogurt is well strained. I'm not worried about the residual lactic acid in it as it is so little.
However, I end up with SO MUCH left over liquid that I know is full of calcium. It seems like a huge waste to dump because of the lactic acid. However, I can't seem to figure out a safe way to neutralize or get rid of the lactic acid so that the calcium-rich liquid can be repurposed (like cooking a high phos food like oats in it.)

 

[supercoolguy]

I used to add baking soda to yogurt. Not realizing my lower abdominal pain was from a By-product created between
NaHCO3 + C3H6O3 = A substance used to induce inflammation/cancer in test animals.

Answer was on a old science message chain, between practicing students.

 

[CaptJim]

I like the straining- looking for one on Amazon. We make our own yogurt.
But if I recall, I think @haidut said heating yogurt destroys lactic acid.
I used to nuke my Siggi before eating for this very reason.

 

[Sphagnum]

I like the straining- looking for one on Amazon. We make our own yogurt.
But if I recall, I think @haidut said heating yogurt destroys lactic acid.
I used to nuke my Siggi before eating for this very reason.

I use an unbleached cotton ‘nut milk’ bag. It works really well, with the only drawback being that the sour smell can tend to cling to the bag even after thorough rinsing.
I pour the yogurt into the bag, and then rest the bag in a regular metal strainer overtop either a bowl or a pot. You could also just put the metal strainer in the sink if you aren’t hell bent on saving the liquid like me hahaha.

That’s interesting about the heating; I’ll have to look that up.

 

[cdg]

Heating, salt baking soda all destroy the bacteria so what is the point in eating it unless you just do for taste?

 

[Sphagnum]

Heating, salt baking soda all destroy the bacteria so what is the point in eating it unless you just do for taste?

I've never heated it, but I imagine its still a good source of more easily digestible protein