Probiotics Are Dangerous, Should Be Regulated As Drugs

[Amazoniac]

- The problem of enriching yoghurts with ascorbic acid

 

[Owen B]

As soon as I took a back-to-back (maybe it was even an extra regimen) Zpak about 10 yrs ago my skin started to go down hill. Itching at the base of the spine, then fibrotic growths with fluid underneath. It has spread widely. Also, as soon as I finished with a Cipro treatment I got what's probably a cystitis. Constant bladder irritation and frequency.

My game plan now is: Sanum isopathic Candida suppositories, a phage product with no probiotics and some low dose tetracycline.

There's a lot of phage products out there, with and without probiotics and they all have the same strains. Here's a Russian company that has what looks like more targeted phages. Bacteriophages

 

[Owen B]

Here's a couple of articles on isopathics. It's an interesting theory. Bacteria and fungi are not fixed entities. They do more than just adapt to their environment (secreting acid or alkaline substances, e.g.). They are interchangeable forms. Simple substances, including bacteria can evolve into more complex substances like fungi. They're pleomorphic.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f9f3/2561eae3e5d67029bd99672bf0a80e1b3061.pdf I think most people on the site would think her dietary recommendations are mistaken. But I think there's a lot in the theory. And in the suppositories. They break the fungi back down to earlier forms; then they are excreted. An anti-fungal attempts to kill the fungi as it is. Not going to get the job done.

Candida albicans and Our Body’s Endogenic Defenses

Pleo Sanum Pleo ALB (Albicansan) Suppositories 3X

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I’ve tried it a lot of times, with close to a billion CFU in a retention enema.

Even did home made fecal transplants from healthy donnor four times, didn’t work for me.

Only thing that worked was a course of antibiotics: Xifaxan + Augmentin + Azithromycin.

My SIBO has been greatly alleviated.

It was originally caused by all these years of popping probiotics because I read it was healthy...

For 3 years I’ve struggled with my health thinking the problem was not enough bacteria, when it was actually too much in the wrong place.

How much money did you spend altogether on your antibiotic journey?

 

[TheBeard]

How much money did you spend altogether on your antibiotic journey?

I would say 300 euros, maybe, no idea.
Would totally do it again if it was 3000

 

[Homo Consumericus]

What an authoritarian title. We certainly do not require additional government regulation.

 

[TheBeard]

What an authoritarian title. We certainly do not require additional government regulation.

Don't worry, no one from the FDA watching this thread will take action because the title says to.

Besides, the catchy title is what made me read the thread so I'm grateful for it

 

[Owen B]

A study on the pros and cons of phage therapy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3278648/pdf/bact0102_0111.pdf

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I would say 300 euros, maybe, no idea.
Would totally do it again if it was 3000

Thanks.

What an authoritarian title. We certainly do not require additional government regulation.

I'm very much in favor of less governmental regulations. It would be so much easier to get antibiotics as well as some other stuff if these things weren't controlled.

 

[Owen B]

This is my conclusion about phages after doing some more research. They're just not workable for everyday self-help needs.

Look at Welcome to Phage Therapy Center This is what one is up against in using phages. You're going to have to travel to a clinic and I'm guessing if it's in the USA you're not going to get treated if you don't get FDA approval. Then you're going to be spending lots of money for travel and the treatment itself. The chances are that even if you have insurance they're not going to pay for it. It's going to have to be for a very, very serious condition for which you have already had lots of documented treatment.

The people at the Russian company didn't even return my email. This is not like shopping at Vitacost.

Then there's the risks. The study that Amazoniac posted about probiotics also discussed phages and not favorably. The risks are out there for anyone to research. Look at What are bacteriophages? — Binturong Here's a guy who has written a book on the subject and has provided a very concise breakdown of the advantages, disadvantages. Check them out; they're really nicely done. Even if one shows up at some clinic they're going to be doing a lot of pretesting before they even think about treating you.

As for the OTC phages, some people report that they worked once but not again. That may be because the body created antibodies for the phage. Therefore, they will only work once.

Oh well, it was a nice thought while it lasted.

 

[TheBeard]

What's with the often see theory that gut bacteria aid in digestion then?
I've read that it helps in up to 90% of the digestion process, the 10% remaining being hydrochloric acid and enzymes

 

[thomas00]

Probably bull****. A lot of the research of gut flora seems shady and prone to wild claims.


How could it it really aid in digestion? There's no bacteria in the stomach and small intestine where most digestion is taking place. Whatever is making it to the bowel is growing intestinal flora, for better or worse. Probably worse. The claim about K2 needing bacteria to be metabolized was wrong.

 

[TheBeard]

I'm just seduced by the raw primal diet principles, as they are elegant and seem to fit well withing the laws of nature: all bacteria and parasites are the body's janitors, they are here to feed on decaying tissue.
As long as you eat a physiological diet of uncooked and unprocessed animal products, there won't be any decaying tissue anymore to feed on and the bacteria will leave.
The antibiotic addition to make the gut sterile feels good, but I sense it's only a temporary relief and doesn't solve the long term picture of why bacteria are here in the first place.
I mean, would nature really **** up?

 

[Kartoffel]

What's with the often see theory that gut bacteria aid in digestion then?
I've read that it helps in up to 90% of the digestion process, the 10% remaining being hydrochloric acid and enzymes

Some bacteria digest things that we don't have enzymes for, but bacterial overgrowth will greatly impair digestion. People with SIBO have significantly fewer digestive enzymes in their small intestines and often develop nutrient deficiencies as a result of that.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

I'm just seduced by the raw primal diet principles, as they are elegant and seem to fit well withing the laws of nature: all bacteria and parasites are the body's janitors, they are here to feed on decaying tissue.
As long as you eat a physiological diet of uncooked and unprocessed animal products, there won't be any decaying tissue anymore to feed on and the bacteria will leave.
The antibiotic addition to make the gut sterile feels good, but I sense it's only a temporary relief and doesn't solve the long term picture of why bacteria are here in the first place.
I mean, would nature really **** up?

It would be nice if bacteria weren't the problem, but things that kill bacteria also reduce bloating and improve digestion for me, so there is no way that bacteria are doing beneficial stuff in my gut.

Also, hypothyroidism is probably the cause of SIBO and bacterial overgrowth in general. As @thomas00 said, the stomach and small intestine should be naturally free of bacteria, but with impaired oxidative phosphorylation, the body can't generate enough energy and ROS to keep bacteria only in the large intestine.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

It would be nice if bacteria weren't the problem, but things that kill bacteria also reduce bloating and improve digestion for me, so there is no way that bacteria are doing beneficial stuff in my gut.

Also, hypothyroidism is probably the cause of SIBO and bacterial overgrowth in general. As @thomas00 said, the stomach and small intestine should be naturally free of bacteria, but with impaired oxidative phosphorylation, the body can't generate enough energy and ROS to keep bacteria only in the large intestine.

Would not methylene blue be precisely what is needed?

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Would not methylene blue be precisely what is needed?

There is evidence that MB is good for urinary tract infections, as well as for candida( especially in the mouth), but I have no idea if it would be enough to bring someone back to health if their bacterial growth is too great. As an adjunct to antibiotics, I think it can work well. I never read about any harmful interaction antibiotics and MB. For prevention, I think methylene blue would be great, and much safer than using antibiotics chronically.

 

[TheBeard]

things that kill bacteria also reduce bloating and improve digestion for me

Which ones have worked for you?

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Which ones have worked for you?

A couple of years ago, I used amoxicillin after having a tooth extracted, and I remember feeling very good( less bloating, very warm, great mood, even though I was eating beans and drinking green tea daily) , but I was very hypothyroid back then. The benefits went away quickly. And I think that this antibiotic wasn't strong enough, especially for someone who has pretty much always had digestive problems and bloating, like me.

I consumed a ton of ground ginger for a long time, and it sure helped. Taste wise, I had no problems with it. Meat with ground ginger tastes great to me, but if I stopped consuming it for only a few days, my digestion would suffer, and I would get bad breath. My tongue didn't like ginger though. Felt like the ginger was burning it to the point of being uncomfortable.

I tried cinnamon too, the cassia variety as well as the ceylon one. The cassia variety seemed to be more effective, probably because it has coumarin. I think the bacteria dislike it as much as the liver does.

I tried a bunch of other spices as well, and they provided benefits, but none of them cured the bloating. High dose niacinamide and caffeine were more effective than all the spices I've tried, but both can cause insomnia for me, so I couldn't really use a lot of them consitently enough.

 

[TheBeard]

A couple of years ago, I used amoxicillin after having a tooth extracted, and I remember feeling very good( less bloating, very warm, great mood, even though I was eating beans and drinking green tea daily) , but I was very hypothyroid back then. The benefits went away quickly. And I think that this antibiotic wasn't strong enough, especially for someone who has pretty much always had digestive problems and bloating, like me.

I consumed a ton of ground ginger for a long time, and it sure helped. Taste wise, I had no problems with it. Meat with ground ginger tastes great to me, but if I stopped consuming it for only a few days, my digestion would suffer, and I would get bad breath. My tongue didn't like ginger though. Felt like the ginger was burning it to the point of being uncomfortable.

I tried cinnamon too, the cassia variety as well as the ceylon one. The cassia variety seemed to be more effective, probably because it has coumarin. I think the bacteria dislike it as much as the liver does.

I tried a bunch of other spices as well, and they provided benefits, but none of them cured the bloating. High dose niacinamide and caffeine were more effective than all the spices I've tried, but both can cause insomnia for me, so I couldn't really use a lot of them consitently enough.

The only pharma antibiotic you tried was augmentin?