Antibiotics For Dental Procedure

[veritas]

A while back I had a couple of tooth extractions (overzealous dentist), for neither of which I took antibiotics, and they turned out just fine. I had a third extraction months later, which resulted in a twice failed implant (meaning I had the implant, it failed and was removed, I waited a few months and a new implant was placed, which also failed). The post trapped the infection which spread along my jaw, up to my ear, and over to my eye. I was in excruciating pain. I was taking 800mg ibuprofen around the clock for weeks (vicodin didn't touch the pain, because, I assume, it was only inflammatory) while my dentist lamely poked around during a couple of emergency visits and said everything "looked fine."

After the first failed implant, before it was removed, I took Penicillin VK at the insistence of my dentist. I did a full round. For the second implant, I started on VK prior to the removal. It still failed.

For my first two successful implants, I didn't take any antibiotics, just some very small bits of vicodin for a few days (which did stop the pain, for those). I swished gently with salt a few times a day. Everything turned out fine.

I've since moved on from that dentist, and have a new oral surgeon who will be placing the post in a couple of weeks for the failed implant site. When I booked the appointment, his assistant insisted that I take an antibiotic before the procedure. I said I have a problem with that, I really want to avoid antibiotics, etc. He said it doesn't matter, I have to take an antibiotic. I said I'm really uncomfortable taking antibiotics, and he said I have to. He said he would write a prescription for me for Z-Pack.

What is everyone's opinion on antibiotics in general, and for procedures like this? If I relent and take one, is it going to take me a year to recover from the effects? Dysbiosis? I know Peat nibbles on antibiotics periodically and I understand his reasoning, but is there a difference between that and taking a "full round" of antibiotics?

 

[jitsmonkey]

The risks for your dental procedures out pace your abx risk by 100x. Take the abx.

Peat does not "nibble" on abx. He takes them as needed. Many people take them for weeks or even months. Some YEARS with tremendous clinical benefit. A simple course of surgical abx is simply prudent.

The notion that application of abx = digestive ruin is nonsense. Do some people have a bad abx experience? Yes. But abx usage absolutely does not equate to digestive destruction . In many cases its an enhancement. In some it's digestive salvation.

Use your abx with prudence but do not be afraid of them

 

[theLaw]

Niacinamide Can Help Treat Highly Drug-resistant Bacterial Infections

When you walk into a medical facility, you are putting your health in danger to some degree, so I would take some time and find a Doctor that I could work with using resources on or related to this forum.

@charlie might know where to find resources of health-care professionals who are pro-Peat.

As for antibiotics, to hell with the cheese, get out of the trap.

Also, this is a pretty pro-antibiotics forum, so you might need to do some more reading for better understanding.

Cheers!

 

[veritas]

@charlie might know where to find resources of health-care professionals who are pro-Peat.

This ^ would be great.

Thanks for your comments, @theLaw and @jitsmonkey.

I'm concerned about the purported ineffectiveness of using prophylactic antibiotics specifically for dental procedures (articles like this https://www.ada.org/en/member-center/oral-health-topics/antibiotic-prophylaxis; I don't have abnormal heart valves or artificial joints).

"Four prostheses and seven implants (in five patients) failed in the antibiotics group versus 10 prostheses and 13 implants (in 12 patients) in the placebo group. [...] There were no statistically significant differences for prosthesis failures, implant losses and complications. Patients receiving immediate post-extractive implants had an increased failure risk compared with patients receiving delayed implants (9% versus 2%)." Effectiveness of prophylactic antibiotics at placement of dental implants: a pragmatic multicentre placebo-controlled randomised clinical trial. - PubMed - NCBI (Mine was an immediate post-extractive implant.)

"Prophylactic antibiotics, taken prior to a number of dental procedures, have been advocated to reduce the likelihood of postoperative local complications, like infection, dry socket, or serious systemic complications like infective endocarditis. The evidence for antibiotics acting to prevent infection from surgical wounds in the mouth is poor to non-existent,14 indicating that preoperative parenteral antibiotic prophylaxis for routine third molar surgery in medically fit patients is unwarranted.43,44 It was also found that a single dose of metronidazole was ineffective in preventing the development of dry socket.45 For most dentoalveolar surgical procedures in fit, non-medically compromised patients, antibiotic prophylaxis is not required or recommended." Antibiotic prescribing practices by dentists: a review

But thanks for your comments, and I will consider taking the antibiotics.

 

[veritas]

Peat does not "nibble" on abx.

Apologies, I was speaking casually. I meant to say more along the lines of taking relatively small amounts. Poor word choice.

 

[theLaw]

"Four prostheses and seven implants (in five patients) failed in the antibiotics group versus 10 prostheses and 13 implants (in 12 patients) in the placebo group. [...] There were no statistically significant differences for prosthesis failures, implant losses and complications. Patients receiving immediate post-extractive implants had an increased failure risk compared with patients receiving delayed implants (9% versus 2%)." Effectiveness of prophylactic antibiotics at placement of dental implants: a pragmatic multicentre placebo-controlled randomised clinical trial. - PubMed - NCBI (Mine was an immediate post-extractive implant.)
.

Keep in mind that your body treats an implant as a foreign object, and will take the necessary steps to get rid of it.

You can use all of the antibiotics you want, but if the cause of the infection remains, it will only be a short-term solution.

Cheers!

 

[veritas]

You can use all of the antibiotics you want, but if the cause of the infection remains, it will only be a short-term solution.

Yes, point taken. I've been thinking about exactly that for quite a while, which is also why I am a bit loath to take antibiotics. Conventional wisdom says perhaps the risk of infection is increased immediately after the procedure, but from what I've learned implants can fail at any time, for various reasons. It's important to ascertain the root cause, and go after it.

I think a part of the reason for my increased susceptibility to infection was that during that time I was extremely stressed out. I believe I had either not yet discovered Peat, or had juuust stumbled across some of his writings but hadn't had the time to put anything into practice yet. I wasn't eating well, and my stress levels were off the charts.

 

[theLaw]

Yes, point taken. I've been thinking about exactly that for quite a while, which is also why I am a bit loath to take antibiotics. Conventional wisdom says perhaps the risk of infection is increased immediately after the procedure, but from what I've learned implants can fail at any time, for various reasons. It's important to ascertain the root cause, and go after it.

Are you certain that you actually need an implant?

If you hit the infection with high-dose niacinamide for example as mentioned in the link I posted, and that cured the infection, then would an implant be necessary?

 

[veritas]

Are you certain that you actually need an implant?

If you hit the infection with high-dose niacinamide for example as mentioned in the link I posted, and that cured the infection, then would an implant be necessary?

Well, the tooth has already been removed, hence the two failed implants. It's gone

The dentist was overzealous, to say the least, and was performing many perhaps completely unnecessary procedures on me. It took me way too long to understand that, as he had incredible reviews and was highly regarded in the area, and pretended to be holi$tic (he wasn't, not really). First he gave that tooth a crown, which fractured, then a root canal, which failed, and then an extraction. And then two failed implants (posts).

Since discovering Peat and this forum, and reading voraciously for a year, I haven't had any dental issues. None. Prior, I had about 10-12 procedures in a year, something like that, and was in a lot of pain. I believe niacinamide (I take 500mg-2500mg/day) and activated charcoal had a very positive effect, along with flipping my diet on its head (I had been nearly starving myself and eating a high PUFA, 50% raw vegetable diet).

Recently I also added water irrigation to my daily habits (along with brushing using a biofilm busting toothpaste, and flossing, of course). I usually add some TheraSol to the irrigator.

 

[theLaw]

Well, the tooth has already been removed, hence the two failed implants.

The dentist was overzealous, to say the least, and was performing many perhaps completely unnecessary procedures on me. It took me way too long to understand that. First he gave that tooth a crown, which fractured, then a root canal, which failed, and then an extraction. And then two failed implants (posts).

So there's nothing in there now? Correct?

 

[veritas]

So there's nothing in there now? Correct?

Correct. Nothing there.

 

[theLaw]

Correct. Nothing there.

I would try to kill the infection while reducing inflammation before going back to a doc, but I'm not the one in pain, so that's easy for me to say. Even when I had my wisdom teeth removed with 2 dry sockets and a nasty infection a few months later, the dentist's solutions were pretty basic. The only exception would be if there is something (bone fragments) that is causing the infections that would probably need to be removed.

You might also consider using Cyproheptadine, which is a bit of a panacea for all sorts of inflammation.

Cyproheptadine - Antihistamine And Antiserotonin For R&D

Also, I would dm member Haidut as he would probably have some excellent ideas for alternatives to antibiotics (he owns Idealabs).

Good luck!

 

[veritas]

@theLaw Oh, I'm not in any pain now. After he removed the implant, everything went back to normal in a couple of days and I've been totally fine since. That was many months ago. And yeah, bone fragments slowly splintered up from the area.

Very sorry about your wisdom teeth. Tooth pain is its own special hell, I think.

Cyproheptadine - thanks, I'll read up.

I wonder if Haidut would have some recommendations regarding copper... maybe the penny solution, as a mouthwash of sorts? I'll contact him.

Thanks!

 

[Dave Clark]

I am not suggesting that anyone not take the advice of their practitioner, but when I had three extractions and two implants done I was given scripts for antibiotics, which I filed in the circular file. Read some interesting papers on alternative natural things to use, which was beta glucan, oil of oregano, olive leaf extract, colloidal silver, raw garlic, neem extract etc., and came through the procedure just fine with no problems. Had read an article that it can take up to a year for your bowel to recover from antibiotics, plus I had just recovered from candida issues and didn't want to take a chance on the antibiotics. Again, this is just my experience, and my preference, not saying it was necessarily the correct thing to do, but I felt secure that those natural compounds could do the job.

 

[veritas]

can take up to a year for your bowel to recover from antibiotics

I read something similar months ago. I don't have any gut issues that I'm really aware of, in the sense that some people say they feel so much better after taking antibiotics, their gut issues cleared up, etc. I have hyperthyroidism (I suspect it's hypo with major adrenal issues, but docs insist otherwise...), insomnia and tachycardia, but other than that I'm in good shape. There's something about antibiotics that doesn't sit well with me and I try very hard to avoid taking them. Prior to my dentist adventures last year, I had taken antibiotics only one other time in my life, when I was about 18 I think. Maybe 17. I'm 35.

Occasionally I take Zane Hellas brand of oregano oil, for a few days at a time. Same with olive leaf. I love colloidal silver, mostly as an oral rinse - specifically TheraSilver. I've spoken with the creator over the phone and he is very knowledgeable and was willing to talk with me for quite a while. There is something that sets his brand apart from other colloidal silvers in terms of composition, which he describes in various places, and it seems to be critical to the safety and efficacy of the product. Some supplements I test out, carefully, and keep in my arsenal. I find myself going back to TheraSilver over and over again.

I track my oral bacteria with a microscope, which may sound silly but you'd be amazed at what you see, especially the small changes over time after using certain supplements. TheraSilver has remarkable antimicrobial action, as do a few other products.

 

[Lore]

The risks for your dental procedures out pace your abx risk by 100x. Take the abx.

Peat does not "nibble" on abx. He takes them as needed. Many people take them for weeks or even months. Some YEARS with tremendous clinical benefit. A simple course of surgical abx is simply prudent.

The notion that application of abx = digestive ruin is nonsense. Do some people have a bad abx experience? Yes. But abx usage absolutely does not equate to digestive destruction . In many cases its an enhancement. In some it's digestive salvation.

Use your abx with prudence but do not be afraid of them

Where are you FACTS in this matter???

 

[Lore]

What is everyone's opinion ......?

I'm "learning how to learn the law" and my teacher (who is/was a Neurologist, and Ph.D. in linguistics, along with other accomplishments) gave me this (advise is immoral) when I asked a question that sought-after "advise".

I hope you find this helpful (for your protection always)