Doxycycline vs. Amoxicillin? prescribed incidentally for ear/sinus infection but true goal has been to reap intestinal and other benefit

TheBeard

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From what I am finding, it seems low dose administration of benficial antibiotics is much different than higher dose regimens as is customary for acute infections when prescribed by a medical professional. However, people here, even after taking high doses for a course for acute infections, have reported that they experienced positive ongoing effects after treatment, particularly due to effect on the gut.

I am wondering whether they may have experienced the same relief on the lower dose,longer - term regimens that seem to be preferable and healthier or whether in some cases the higher dose, shorter -term regimens were actually better is some cases of extreme imbalance? And that if following a regimen closer to what Dr. Peat has shared with a few larger doses followed by smaller doses could be applied to the classically medically prescribed regimens and still clear infections while providing the other benefits that the low dose regimens yield? Or are the larger dose regimens necessary for active infections even if they are not life threatening. Opinions?

You'd have to be a guinea pig, take the plunge and let us know.
 
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My experience is that when taking antibiotics for an infection, you can’t stop too soon. Maybe you don’t need to 10 days they tell you to take themm but if you stop after a few days or lower the dosage too soon it sometimes doesn’t work to clear the infection.
 

Advocate2021

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Thanks for the responses--I think the new trend even for medical practitioners is to prescribe a 7-day course for infection, so maybe even they realize they were overdoing it. I have never heard Dr. Peat address larger dose antibiotic use for infection, so wondered what his take on it woud be.
 

TheBeard

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My experience is that when taking antibiotics for an infection, you can’t stop too soon. Maybe you don’t need to 10 days they tell you to take themm but if you stop after a few days or lower the dosage too soon it sometimes doesn’t work to clear the infection.

Worse than that. The bacteria become resistant to the antibiotic if not used for long enough.
 

Advocate2021

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well, I have been prescribed 100 mg of doxycicline twice per day for 7 days so I am doing that and am mitigating any ill effects on micoribiome with the antibitoic regimen suggested by microbiome labs (sporebiotic formulas with which I have done very well) which is supposed to counter antibiotic use and completely preserve the balance of the intestine while on antibiotics. I am 3 days into the 7-day course and so far all seems ok and hoping the doxy will work on any possible overgrowth in small intestine and I will actually arise from the week in better intestinal balance than before while getting rid of ear and sinus pest. Will update on effects.
 
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well, I have been prescribed 100 mg of doxycicline twice per day for 7 days so I am doing that and am mitigating any ill effects on micoribiome with the antibitoic regimen suggested by microbiome labs (sporebiotic formulas with which I have done very well) which is supposed to counter antibiotic use and completely preserve the balance of the intestine while on antibiotics. I am 3 days into the 7-day course and so far all seems ok and hoping the doxy will work on any possible overgrowth in small intestine and I will actually arise from the week in better intestinal balance than before while getting rid of ear and sinus pest. Will update on effects.
If you’re trying to clean out your gut, then why would you put more bacteria in it? If you’re going to use probiotics I would just use it to prevent diarrhea, specifically Saccharomyces Boulardii which is a yeast not a bacteria. At the end of the course you might wanna use something like l. Reuteri if you feel that would be valuable. But I certainly wouldn’t be using different probiotics during a course of antibiotics.
 

Advocate2021

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Thanks. SAccharomyces B is one that I am using. the others are bacillus subtillus, lichenformis and a few other in that genre. Dr. Peat recommends those strains and I have been using them consistently with excellent effect so just continuing and seems to be doing well with keeping things stable. I am not taking any of the lactbacillus or bifido bacteria, only the sporebiotics.
 

TheBeard

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well, I have been prescribed 100 mg of doxycicline twice per day for 7 days so I am doing that and am mitigating any ill effects on micoribiome with the antibitoic regimen suggested by microbiome labs (sporebiotic formulas with which I have done very well) which is supposed to counter antibiotic use and completely preserve the balance of the intestine while on antibiotics. I am 3 days into the 7-day course and so far all seems ok and hoping the doxy will work on any possible overgrowth in small intestine and I will actually arise from the week in better intestinal balance than before while getting rid of ear and sinus pest. Will update on effects.

Why on Earth are you introducing bacteria while killing bacteria?

Don't buy into the "good bacteria" nonsense. Your issues are from a bacteria overload, period. The goal is to reduce that load, not to "restore an equilibrium", which is utter nonsense.
 

Perry Staltic

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Why on Earth are you introducing bacteria while killing bacteria?

Don't buy into the "good bacteria" nonsense. Your issues are from a bacteria overload, period. The goal is to reduce that load, not to "restore an equilibrium", which is utter nonsense.

Whether they're "good" or "bad" is irrelevant. What matters is homeostasis. Humans have lived in balance with microbes for millennia and introduced them into their gut every time they ate or drank. Modern man doesn't get those much anymore, so supplementation with soil-based probiotics is an attempt to restore the balance.
 

yerrag

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Why on Earth are you introducing bacteria while killing bacteria?

Don't buy into the "good bacteria" nonsense. Your issues are from a bacteria overload, period. The goal is to reduce that load, not to "restore an equilibrium", which is utter nonsense.
Just an idea I've been toying with: Probiotics are needed if after a round of antibiotics, there are anaerobic bacteria left untouched as they're hiding behind a biofilm. The probiotics are fermentative anaerobic bacteria and they balance out the putrefactive anaerobic bacteria. Without the probiotics, the putrefactive anaerobic bacteria could establish a dominance, being the surviving bacteria with a large population after the other bacteria are drastically reduced by the antibiotics.

However, if one were to take biofilm disruptors before or during a round of antibiotics, the antibiotics could very well reduce the population of the anaerobic bacteria along with the rest of the bacteria. So there's no dominance being conferred on the anaerobic bacteria, and probiotics won't be needed to balance it.
 

cjm

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Just an idea I've been toying with: Probiotics are needed if after a round of antibiotics, there are anaerobic bacteria left untouched as they're hiding behind a biofilm. The probiotics are fermentative anaerobic bacteria and they balance out the putrefactive anaerobic bacteria. Without the probiotics, the putrefactive anaerobic bacteria could establish a dominance, being the surviving bacteria with a large population after the other bacteria are drastically reduced by the antibiotics.

However, if one were to take biofilm disruptors before or during a round of antibiotics, the antibiotics could very well reduce the population of the anaerobic bacteria along with the rest of the bacteria. So there's no dominance being conferred on the anaerobic bacteria, and probiotics won't be needed to balance it.
I've just started taking doxycycline in two 100mg doses per day and after my recent success with kefir, I was thinking to add it to the regimen, either now or right after I decide I'm done with doxy. Kefir is complex and wonderful, I wouldn't be surprised if it contained biofilm disruptors, or otherwise conferred additional benefit to an antibiotic regime. Kefir helped me on its own and got me thinking about gut flora as a source of constant misery. @Jib
 

Advocate2021

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thank you for all of these thoughts. The spore biotics based upon my understanding are indicated when SIBO is an issue as they do not feed bacteria in the small intestine but actually eradicate what does not belong there. Certainly interested in other perspectives on this.

In my experience the typical lactobacillus and bifidus probiotics cause issues when bacterial imbalance is present but bacillus subtilus, lichenformis and the other spores do not. Before learning this, I had taken the typical probiotics for many years and never achieved positive results. The spore biotics from microbiome labs have brought about 200 percent improvement for me over the last couple of years. I used to resort to colon therapy on average once per week to function and have not had a colonic in almost a year now as the microbiome labs program brought such dramatic improvement in my bowel function. So, it makes sense to maintain this while taking significant doses of an antibiotic which I am hoping will eradicate any existing imbalance of bacterial over growth in small intestine while allowing the spore biotics to continue doing their work that has brought about much improved balance. Thats my take.
 

TheBeard

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Whether they're "good" or "bad" is irrelevant. What matters is homeostasis. Humans have lived in balance with microbes for millennia and introduced them into their gut every time they ate or drank. Modern man doesn't get those much anymore, so supplementation with soil-based probiotics is an attempt to restore the balance.

Once balance has been thrown off with just one antibiotic use, it will be inhumanely difficult to restore that initial ecosystem that works well, with all the probiotics in the world.
The better solution is to level off everything with more antibiotics.
It's basically: never ever touch an antibiotic, or use antibiotics for the rest of your life.
 

Advocate2021

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Interesting perspective and makes sense regarding these higher dose courses for acute situations.

It would seem though with the lower- dose intermittent regimens Dr. Peat advocates for maintaining intestinal balance, regardless of previous antibiotic use, that intermittent, occasional use might be recommended as a matter of course for most people in the modern world for optimal intestinal health. Although it would also seem that once a severe imbalance is minimized, things such as the carrot salad, bacteriophages and sporebiotics (bacillus subtillus, lichenformis and some others-- Dr. Peat has approved these) could ideally be used to manage the intestine longterm and hopefully prevent any further need for antibiotics. But even if they do not, I have seen mention here frequently of a philosophy of using antibiotics when needed throughout life and an often quoted passage from Dr. Peat describing a regimen of a couple of larger doses, followed incrementally with smaller doses three times per day for a few days.

Do fellow forum members believe that the above accurately depicts Dr. Peat's philosophy with respect to antibiotic use?
 

Advocate2021

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I've just started taking doxycycline in two 100mg doses per day and after my recent success with kefir, I was thinking to add it to the regimen, either now or right after I decide I'm done with doxy. Kefir is complex and wonderful, I wouldn't be surprised if it contained biofilm disruptors, or otherwise conferred additional benefit to an antibiotic regime. Kefir helped me on its own and got me thinking about gut flora as a source of constant misery. @Jib
Intersting. I would be curious to know your experience taking doxycycline at that dose as it is the same dose I have been prescribed for 7 days. How many days are you planning to take that dose? Is it for an acute infection? thanks
 

cjm

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Intersting. I would be curious to know your experience taking doxycycline at that dose as it is the same dose I have been prescribed for 7 days. How many days are you planning to take that dose? Is it for an acute infection? thanks

I'm not sure how long to be honest. Playing it by feels. No acute infection, maybe not even a chronic one. I had an Organic Acids Test done a few months ago and nothing measured was out of range. I'll be honest, I'm taking it for the oxidative effect. My body temp is low in places like my upper back and neck, hands and feet. I mentioned to another forum member yesterday that I had an epiphany that stretching made me feel better than anything (I have movement issues) and Vitamin K would make me want to stretch. Doxy is a a cousin of Vitamin K per @haidut:

"As per Peat's writings and readily verifiable online, vitamin K, emodin, lapachon, and the tetracycline antibiotics class are really the same substance, with varying potency. I think he said that they are in increasing potency in the order I listed them. So, depending on the potency ratio you should be able to achieve what tetracycline does by taking say a higher dose vitamin K. However, the studies with vitamin K show potent anti-cancer effects both for prevention and treatment in human doses 100mg-150mg daily, which is suspiciously close to the therapeutic doses of doxycycline (100mg+ daily). That makes me think that for cancer prevention and treatment vitamin K may not be that much "weaker" than the tetracyclines.

So, if Peat is right then vitamin K is essentially a type of tetracycline as are the other quinones like lapachon and emodin. Maybe I should have said that vitamin K action (as a type of tetracycline) is probably like the other tetracycline antibiotics on cancer. We certainly have evidence for vitamin K preventing and maybe even treating some cancers. Link

I'm warming up slowly, not waking up cold as often when sleeping at night, I feel freer in my movement during the day, more energy, less lactic acid.
 

Advocate2021

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wanted to bump this again as curious on feedback:

Interesting perspective and makes sense regarding these higher dose courses for acute situations.

It would seem though with the lower- dose intermittent regimens Dr. Peat advocates for maintaining intestinal balance, regardless of previous antibiotic use, that intermittent, occasional use might be recommended as a matter of course for most people in the modern world for optimal intestinal health. Although it would also seem that once a severe imbalance is minimized, things such as the carrot salad, bacteriophages and sporebiotics (bacillus subtillus, lichenformis and some others-- Dr. Peat has approved these) could ideally be used to manage the intestine longterm and hopefully prevent any further need for antibiotics. But even if they do not, I have seen mention here frequently of a philosophy of using antibiotics when needed throughout life and an often quoted passage from Dr. Peat describing a regimen of a couple of larger doses, followed incrementally with smaller doses three times per day for a few days.

Do fellow forum members believe that the above accurately depicts Dr. Peat's philosophy with respect to antibiotic use?
 

TheBeard

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wanted to bump this again as curious on feedback:

Interesting perspective and makes sense regarding these higher dose courses for acute situations.

It would seem though with the lower- dose intermittent regimens Dr. Peat advocates for maintaining intestinal balance, regardless of previous antibiotic use, that intermittent, occasional use might be recommended as a matter of course for most people in the modern world for optimal intestinal health. Although it would also seem that once a severe imbalance is minimized, things such as the carrot salad, bacteriophages and sporebiotics (bacillus subtillus, lichenformis and some others-- Dr. Peat has approved these) could ideally be used to manage the intestine longterm and hopefully prevent any further need for antibiotics. But even if they do not, I have seen mention here frequently of a philosophy of using antibiotics when needed throughout life and an often quoted passage from Dr. Peat describing a regimen of a couple of larger doses, followed incrementally with smaller doses three times per day for a few days.

Do fellow forum members believe that the above accurately depicts Dr. Peat's philosophy with respect to antibiotic use?

Where has Peat approved sporebiotics?
 

Advocate2021

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I completed the 7-day course of doxycilcline yesterday morning. I do not think it worked well for me, other than possibly diminishing the ear infection (hard to know). I felt much lower energy and colder with it-- was getting a lot of chills during the week. It also has irritated my intestine and slowed it down. It is possible that it did something positive in the intestine--some sort of die off- and that there is an adjustment period-- I hope so. Otherwise it did what people clasically attribute to antibiotic use and disrupted the microbiome negatively. Perhaps occasional use of very low dose antibiotics as Dr. Peat recommends might enhance intestinal balance and everyone is unique of course; but for me bombing larger doses of antibiotics prescribed for infections does not seem to be the way to go.
 
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