How can I best support my health whilst on a one week course of antibiotics?

[Honeycomb]

Hello!
I have just started a one week course of antibiotics (Flucloxacillin) prescribed to treat a toe infection. I haven’t taken antibiotics in years (last time was in 2014) and am wondering how can I best support my health. I am not currently taking any supplements or other medication.

If anyone has any advice or experience they could share, I would be very grateful. I have learnt so much on this forum since joining.

I have been reading some old threads and taken away the following:
- carrot salad (which I already do daily)
- avoid starch (which would mean avoiding potatoes and bananas!)

I also came across this quote by Ray Peat: “It’s important to get some vitamin K1 or K2 when you use an antibiotic (liver or kale, or supplements)”

Other things which seem to make sense, from mainstream Internet search:
- glycine (bone broth...) to support liver health
- Greek yogurt for its probiotics

Thank you.

 

[Hiep]

For antibiotic-induced diarrhea and other GI issues (e.g. gas, bloating, etc.), consider Saccharomyces Boulardii e.g. 5B or 10B CFU

S. Boulardii is even effective against some (but not all) strains of C. difficile

It's best to take it away from meals and in between the antibiotic doses

 

[Logan-]

Cascara, magnesium glycinate and other laxatives would be of great help during that time.

Also bamboo shoots, carrot salad, button mushrooms.

You may also consider taking cyproheptadine, methylene blue for anti-endotoxin properties.

Certain B-vitamins are produced by bacteria in the gut. Supplementation of them may be considered.

Vitamin D and bone broth better intestinal barrier functioning.

 

[Honeycomb]

Thank you for the suggestion @Hiep. I appreciate your input especially as I am not familiar at all with Saccharomyces Boulardii. It sounds like a good probiotic from what I have managed to read about it so far.

 

[Honeycomb]

@Logan- Thank you so much for the suggestions. All seem fairly easy to incorporate straight away.
I keep some cascara handy so I will have some later today. I am not sure that I can put my hands on Cyproheptadine, being in the UK, but I have some Phenergan.
Is Magnesium Bicarbonate okay too? I forgot to mention in my post that I take a bit of that.
I am definitely going to get some bone broth. I have already made a batch of kale broth because it was easy to.
Methylene Blue is something I have always wanted to try. Any particular brand that you would recommend?
I have never taken vitamin D. I find both the arguments for and against supplementation of vitamin D to be quite overwhelming.
Thank you again!

I am pretty sure those antibiotics are already giving me insomnia. I couldn’t sleep last night

 

[Logan-]

You’re welcome. Bicarbonate is a good form. I don’t know a good MB supplement right now, it’s very important to buy one that has good COA results. The most important thing to do is to empty the bowels during that time without hurting the instestines, and making sure the intestinal barrier is healthy (hence bone broth and vit. D and cypro) so that the endotoxin would be flushed out and doesn’t get too much into the blood stream. Insoluble fiber also is therefore very important, as always.

 

[Logan-]

Insomnia is probably due to endotoxin.

There are studies that show certain abx cause mitochondrial dysfunction. Things that support energy metabolism could be of great help.

Tetracyclines Cause Mitochondrial Dysfunction

Knowing the basics of the origin and evolution of the cells, I asked myself this question: "How do antibiotics affect human mitochondrial function?" First, read this: Cooper GM. The Cell: A Molecular Approach. 2nd edition. Sunderland (MA): Sinauer Associates; 2000. The Origin and Evolution of...

raypeatforum.com

RP said fungi in the gut feed on starch, there’s always competition in the gut between microorganisms; during an abx course, fungi thrive, so it is important to not eat too much starch and rather consume sugars instead.

 

[Honeycomb]

Thank you so much for all that @Logan-
What you are saying about the intestinal barrier makes a lot of sense. I really appreciate the time you have taken to reply!

 

[Logan-]

Thank you so much for all that @Logan-
What you are saying about the intestinal barrier makes a lot of sense. I really appreciate the time you have taken to reply!

You’re welcome.

 

[Honeycomb]

You’re welcome.

Also thank you for the link with the studies and information about the potential risks of mitochondrial dysfunction. It makes me realise that I know very little about the effects of antibiotics.

 

[Logan-]

Also thank you for the link with the studies and information about the potential risks of mitochondrial dysfunction. It makes me realise that I know very little about the effects of antibiotics.

You’re welcome. Methylene blue has direct positive effects on mitochondria, backed by studies. But be aware that it may cause insomnia, and lessen appetite. RP used very small doses, transdermally.

Ray Peat’s Methylene Blue Experience, And Optimal Dose Of Methylene Blue According To Ray Peat

In John Barkhausen’s “Politics and Science podcast”, the topic was evolution. The recording is dated 2015.03.04. At around 1:18:00, someone asks Ray about his methylene blue experience. He says he takes Methylene Blue transdermally. He also says that “quite a few people are having very powerful...

raypeatforum.com

Some of the things that would help with sleep: Thyroid supplementation, progesterone, vitamin E, Cyproheptadine, magnesium, and most importantly, consuming sugar before sleep (liver glycogen stores). Transdermal magnesium chloride is especially effective for this, and acts very fast, but it can cause itching. Diluting it before application can help with that.

If you’re a woman and postmenopausal, I think you could benefit from taking progesterone every day, but don’t count on me for that. My knowledge on female reproductive system and hormonal health is far from great.

Kale has lots of oxalate in it. When you make kale broth, that oxalate is passed onto the water. If you have intestinal problems, arthritis, or systemic metabolic problems like cancer, I think it would be wise to be very cautious of oxalates.

If the infection is on the surface of your toe, like on toenail, you can try topical antibiotics and antifungals, like propolis tincture, instead of taking an antibiotic orally. But since you were given systemic abx, I’m assuming it’s different from that. Taking biopsy and analyzing the piece for microorganisms would be a proper way of starting the investigation, something that your dermatologist should have done.

 

[Logan-]

Niacinamide and vitamin C can also help with insomnia.

 

[Honeycomb]

@Logan- Thank you again for providing suggestions for my sleep issues. That’s so kind of you. I definitely have ample sugar before bed but can’t seem to stay asleep for more than 2 or 3 hours at a time. I keep a glass of orange juice on my bedside, which does help a bit but only a bit.
Yes, I am a 51 year old post-menopausal woman. I also was diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer 9 years ago. I had surgery, chemotherapy and radiation- which has caused a lot of damage to my already low metabolism. The cancer hadn’t spread - I was lucky because the tumour was big.
I only discovered the work of Ray Peat about 2 years ago and am so glad I have. I have learnt so much information and spend a lot of time reading his articles and newsletters or listening to podcasts. I have made many changes to my diet.
I also use cascara when needed and make some Magnesium Bicarbonate daily. I am hesitant about (and I guess, scared of) supplements yet have read enough to know that I want to try progesterone, vitamin E, vitamin D, methylene blue - Most of them you mention in fact.
I do wonder about thyroid too as my morning temperature tends to be low. It normalises with breakfast though and stays pretty good for the rest of the day. I have just started reading Broda Barnes Hypothyroidism: The unsuspected Illness.

I am still unlearning and learning. Thank you for everything!

 

[Michael Mohn]

Aspirin does act in synergy with antibiotics and keeps down fungus.

 

[Logan-]

@Logan- Thank you again for providing suggestions for my sleep issues. That’s so kind of you. I definitely have ample sugar before bed but can’t seem to stay asleep for more than 2 or 3 hours at a time. I keep a glass of orange juice on my bedside, which does help a bit but only a bit.
Yes, I am a 51 year old post-menopausal woman. I also was diagnosed with triple negative breast cancer 9 years ago. I had surgery, chemotherapy and radiation- which has caused a lot of damage to my already low metabolism. The cancer hadn’t spread - I was lucky because the tumour was big.
I only discovered the work of Ray Peat about 2 years ago and am so glad I have. I have learnt so much information and spend a lot of time reading his articles and newsletters or listening to podcasts. I have made many changes to my diet.
I also use cascara when needed and make some Magnesium Bicarbonate daily. I am hesitant about (and I guess, scared of) supplements yet have read enough to know that I want to try progesterone, vitamin E, vitamin D, methylene blue - Most of them you mention in fact.
I do wonder about thyroid too as my morning temperature tends to be low. It normalises with breakfast though and stays pretty good for the rest of the day. I have just started reading Broda Barnes Hypothyroidism: The unsuspected Illness.

I am still unlearning and learning. Thank you for everything!

If I were in your shoes, in addition to cascara, magnesium, carrot salad (or something similar in effect), I’d try to create a bit of a hypermetabolic state by taking thyroid after every meal, taking a good active form b-complex, progesterone (progest-e), vitamin C (1 grams a day), vitamin D (5000 IU/day), cut starches and consume high amounts of sugar, adequate animal protein, offal (especially ruminant liver), bone broth, dairy products are of course important if you can tolerate them, if not then supplement calcium carbonate or eggshell powder, consume only good quality EVOO or deodorised coconut oil. Don’t eat fried foods, be aware of the harmful effects of mouth breathing, take a look at Buteyko’s and Mike Mew’s work. Barnes’ book is good. Cypro can be helpful. Drinking homemade juice of ripe citrus fruits would be very good, if you can tolerate them, if not then other fruits can be used.

Sleep problems most probably indicate unopposed increase in stress hormones during the night. Many things could cause it. Sleep is fundamental for good health.

RP’s email exchanges page is the greatest source of information this forum can provide. I have read all of it countless times. I suggest you to do the same, if you haven’t already.

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

raypeatforum.com

Doing an extensive elimination diet is also extremely important.

 

[Logan-]

 

[Gawdawg]

Hello!
I have just started a one week course of antibiotics (Flucloxacillin) prescribed to treat a toe infection. I haven’t taken antibiotics in years (last time was in 2014) and am wondering how can I best support my health. I am not currently taking any supplements or other medication.

If anyone has any advice or experience they could share, I would be very grateful. I have learnt so much on this forum since joining.

I have been reading some old threads and taken away the following:
- carrot salad (which I already do daily)
- avoid starch (which would mean avoiding potatoes and bananas!)

I also came across this quote by Ray Peat: “It’s important to get some vitamin K1 or K2 when you use an antibiotic (liver or kale, or supplements)”

Other things which seem to make sense, from mainstream Internet search:
- glycine (bone broth...) to support liver health
- Greek yogurt for its probiotics

Thank you.

Continue the carrot salad after you're finished with the antibiotics and if you haven't already, use K2 MK-4 and the Greek yogurt.

 

[Honeycomb]

If I were in your shoes, in addition to cascara, magnesium, carrot salad (or something similar in effect), I’d try to create a bit of a hypermetabolic state by taking thyroid after every meal, taking a good active form b-complex, progesterone (progest-e), vitamin C (1 grams a day), vitamin D (5000 IU/day), cut starches and consume high amounts of sugar, adequate animal protein, offal (especially ruminant liver), bone broth, dairy products are of course important if you can tolerate them, if not then supplement calcium carbonate or eggshell powder, consume only good quality EVOO or deodorised coconut oil. Don’t eat fried foods, be aware of the harmful effects of mouth breathing, take a look at Buteyko’s and Mike Mew’s work. Barnes’ book is good. Cypro can be helpful. Drinking homemade juice of ripe citrus fruits would be very good, if you can tolerate them, if not then other fruits can be used.

Sleep problems most probably indicate unopposed increase in stress hormones during the night. Many things could cause it. Sleep is fundamental for good health.

RP’s email exchanges page is the greatest source of information this forum can provide. I have read all of it countless times. I suggest you to do the same, if you haven’t already.

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki

raypeatforum.com

Doing an extensive elimination diet is also extremely important.

Thanks for all of that. Really interesting and it’s making me think. I couldn’t agree more that sleep is vital for our health and every time I go through a period of time where my sleep is terrible I know it has a huge impact and not just short term either.

I really appreciate all of your suggestions. I have been reading a number of threads on here for some time before joining so between what I have taken away here and from Ray Peat’s work, your suggestions seem like very good advice. I started this new journey after reading Kate Deering’s book and never looked back. But I have been wanting to fix everything with diet alone, if that makes sense. The irony is that everyone else is sleeping very well in my house, husband and three teenagers, yet they eat whatever, whilst I am very careful about what I eat. I squeeze my own pulp-free orange juice, have dairy without issues, eggs, seafood a couple of times a week (crab, scallops or oysters), plenty of fruit (fresh and dry), But the RP based diet is maybe just not enough for my damaged metabolism.

I am very familiar with the email exchange thread which I have read and often go back to. It’s a very informative place even when without having the full context. Thanks for reminding me. I will go back there.

Moving forward, I have ordered some cyproheptadine today because I do need to sleep. I hadn’t realised one could easily buy it in the UK. I intend to use it if needed for 6 days as recommended by Ray Peat at doses of 0.5-2mg. Does this sound sensible to you? Last night I went to bed at 10pm, was still wide awake with eyes wide open at midnight. I was getting stressed about not being able to fall asleep so I got up, had some warm milk with a tbsp of honey, took 2 Phenergan tablets (desperation and nothing else available). I fell asleep quite quickly and slept quite well with some crazy dreams too- despite waking up a couple of times. I had a temperature of 36.6 on awaking. That’s one positive! I have noticed that if I sleep my temperature is almost always good.

Sleep has been an issue for me - on and off. In phases. Over the last 4 years or so - coinciding with menopause I think.
So yes, I should probably get some progest-e. One concern of mine is the surge of estrogen which some women experience when they start supplementing progesterone. I don’t want that. I shall hop over the female corner thread with my questions! I once ordered it and then cancelled my order after a moment of panic.

I have what looks like a good a B vitamin complex in my virtual basket and am also tempted by some Magnesium glycinate + taurate - All from Lifeblud (I get my Mag bicarbonate from them and believe them to be a good company. Clean ingredients, no fillers.)

Breath work ... that’s such a good point! Easily overlooked too ... I have got some work to do there. I meditate and practice yoga and I am mindful of how I breath though throughout the day. I did think of trying mouth taping at night but haven’t yet tried. I will look into Buteyko (which I only know by name and has been on my To Do list for a while). I have not heard of a Mike Mew. Thank you so much. Something new and I am sure beneficial to look forward to!

Apart from the aggravation of my sleep problems, I am tolerating the antibiotics well so far.

 

[Honeycomb]

Aspirin does act in synergy with antibiotics and keeps down fungus.

Thank you for that. I can’t find a clean source of aspirin. If I do, what dose would you recommend?

 

[Honeycomb]

Continue the carrot salad after you're finished with the antibiotics and if you haven't already, use K2 MK-4 and the Greek yogurt.

Why K2 MK-4? I don’t know enough about it. For calcium regulation? Moving it from the soft tissues to the bones? I do eat quite a bit of dairy - milk, cheese, Greek yogurt, ice cream. It may indeed be a good idea.

And do you think this would be a good option?

MK-Seven

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Thank you for your time. I do the carrot salad every day and shall continue. I also cooking some more mushrooms as we speak!