Wondro- an old-time remedy for gut fungus

[Broken man]

You can use alpha lipoic acid instead.

 

[MCurtone]

6 days in:

Very obvious effect: Almost complete disappearance of intestinal irritation/aches and acid reflux from eating.

Intolerance to foods and supplements ( curcumin/turmeric, garlic, i.e. many anti-fungals) has also disappeared.

Also, tongue is going from very white and sore with obvious signs of damage to pink and healing.

Used Flax Seed Oil and Sublimed Sulfur powder in microwave on high for 5mins.

Consuming the resultant gooey black mess is not so difficult. I have been taking less than half a TSP about 1/2 an hour after each meal.

Only problem in making it: the smell is really bad and will invade the entire house and is hard to ventilate. I guess we can call them fumes.

I would be concerned about the potential by-products of this (simple) process having toxicity.

When you said intolerance to foods disappeared, can you go into more detail? What kind of intolerance? What were your symptoms?

Are you still keeping this up? Any updates?

 

[atlee7757]

Sulfurated Flax Seed (Linseed) Oil

14 days in:

So far I have made up two batches and each one seems to have lasted about a week.

The initial improvement: “Almost complete disappearance of intestinal irritation/aches and acid reflux from eating.”

Today, still “Almost complete” but not 100% complete.

I have also noticed a very mild improvement in Joint pain/sensitivity.

I have not been able to detect any negative consequences or side effects.

According to the protocol and testimonials for WONDRO, some of the positive effects required adhering to the protocol for up two or three months.



I have also learned a couple of things that will have to be factored in:

Some common bacteria are able to produce acetaldehyde and then metabolize acetaldehyde into acetic acid and ethanol.



“Acetaldehyde metabolism by wine lactic acid bacteria

Acetaldehyde is a volatile flavor compound present in many fermented foods and is important in the production of red and white wines.

Nine strains of the genera Lactobacillus and Oenococcus were able to metabolize acetaldehyde in a resting cell system.

Acetic acid and ethanol were produced from its degradation.”



“Formation of acetaldehyde from threonine by lactic acid bacteria

Group N streptococci and other lactic acid bacteria produce acetaldehyde during growth in complex media (Bills & Day, 1966; Bottazzi & Dellaglio, 1967; Harvey, 1960; Keenan & Bills, 1968).

Mammalian cells contain the enzyme threonine aldolase which catalyses the cleavage of threonine to acetaldehyde and glycine (Karasek & Greenberg, 1957; Malkin & Greenberg, 1964; Riario-Sforza, Pagani & Marinello, 1969; Shirch & Gross, 1968). The enzyme has been found in only 2 bacteria, Escherichia coli (Lenti & Grillo, 1953) and Clostridium pasteurianum (Dainty, 1967). Threonine was therefore investigated as a possible source of the acetaldehyde produced by lactic acid bacteria during growth.

Threonine aldolase activity was found in all strains of Group N streptococci examined except Streptococcus cremoris.

Acetaldehyde and glycine, formed from the cleavage of threonine by Str. lactis subsp. diacetylactis DRC3, were identified by gas chromatography (Fig. 1) and thinlayer chromatography (Fig. 2) respectively.

In the presence of NADH2, acetaldehyde was reduced to ethanol.

The inhibition of threonine aldolase activity by both glycine and cysteine may represent a mechanism by which the biosynthesis of serine from threonine is controlled. “



So, Fungus metabolizes sugars and starches into Acetaldehyde, possibly as a weapon against Bacteria. To protect themselves, some Bacteria have the ability to metabolize Acetaldehyde into Acetic Acid and Ethanol, and one or both of these substances may act as a weapon against Fungus.

Excessive quantities of any, or all, of these metabolites produced inside the Human digestive system will probably cause degenerative problems that could then spread systemically.

Provoking either Fungus or Bacteria would result in Herx type reactions, and could potentially be quite severe.

The challenge is to be patient and use a very long term strategy of gently discouraging encroachment.

And then, maybe the Fungus and Bacteria will keep each other in check.

 

[atlee7757]

I am using the WONDRO Linseed Oil formula. I would be interested to hear of any results from using a Pine Oil formula.

 

[dogtrainer]

Guys I took Wondro. A tablespoon full down the hatch. I used precipitated sulfur And flax oil as the recipe directs.

The next morning I had a massive headache and sickly feeling in my body. This is ostensibly a sign of die off for me - I’ve gotten this sick headache in the past after antibiotics, high doses of oregano oil, etc.

I’ve been taking it on and off for like 5 days, skipping doses here and there because the formula weirds me out. I’be been struggling with digestion for almost four years now so I am very cautious about supplements.

I theorize that scavenging acetaldehyde isn’t all it’s doing. If my killer headache is any clue, I think it’s probably directly killing stuff, whether that’s bacteria or fungus I don’t know.

Check out this molecule of allicin, a known antimicrobial. Big old semi exposed sulfur atom.

 

[Ben.]

Check out this molecule of allicin, a known antimicrobial. Big old semi exposed sulfur atom.

Allicin is an organosulfur compound obtained from garlic by crushing or cutting it and have the enzyme alliinase act on the alliin.

The issue is this does not realy survive the stomache. There is a formulation with coating. However i felt a allicin/garlic extract in suppositorium far more effective. Fair warning tho, one immideately smells like garlic once inserted ...
But yes it is aggresive on alot of bugs in the body. Prolly not a bad idea to combine it with methylene blue.

I find your experience wierd. I can honestly say the sulphur irrelevant of the wondro or any fats helps me alot. NAC, taurin, sublimed sulphur in honey etc.
Are you sure the heated pufa is not contributing to the negative effect?

 

[MaxMaximus]

Doesn't activated charcoal achieve the same thing? It's not absorbed so it reaches the colon and adsorbs acetaldehyde and other toxic substances along the way.

 

[Ben.]

You can use alpha lipoic acid instead.

Thats used to bind metals even crossing the BBB.

The author in the PDF mentions alot of issues with acetaldehyde binding to almost anything (havent read about ALA in there tho) and alot of the resulting complex can be problematic which is why sulphur or L-Cystein seems to be preferred.

Doesn't activated charcoal achieve the same thing? It's not absorbed so it reaches the colon and adsorbs acetaldehyde and other toxic substances along the way.

I think it would bind it well, however it binds alot of nutritious stuff too. One could argue to use it before sleeping or outside of meals but then alot of the acetaldehyde has already been produced by the fungi and already interacted/interefered with important, vital things the body needs.

When used with or close to meals that might reduce the amount of nutrition we would be able to get/assimilate from the food because its bound to the charcoal already? And if it already binds to the food, then it can't bind well to the acetaldehyde anymore?

Not realy sure ... Perhaps it can make sense in the case of @dogtrainer to deal with the die-off tho?

 

[Ben.]

I found this to be a funny, interesting read:

The veritable paracelsian Oil of Haarlem

The veritable paracelsian Oil of Haarlem. Apparently this formula was handed down by Paracelsus, rediscovered in Leiden and Giuliano Kremmerz

fontanaeditore.com

The Medicamentum Gratia Probatum​

"The current formula of the Paracelsian Oil of Haarlem that I know, is composed as follows: turpentine 20 ana, linseed oil 1 ana, flowers of sulfur 4 ana. These substances, thoroughly mixed, are left to circulate on a steam bath in a flask, or in a circulator, if not in twins or pelican, until the liquid turns red amber. It is an arcana who has many uses , internal and external, and is still considered by many main stream physicians as a treatment for arthritis and gout. Apparently this formula was handed down by Paracelsus, rediscovered in Leiden and supported by Giuliano Kremmerz[1] in the early twentieth century.

...

Starkey and Le Pelletier knew better the use of it.

Moreover, in hindsight, flowers of sulfur are already a sublimated substance in a stable form, harmonious and crystalized, and already with therapeutic properties.

Even today flowers of sulfur are present in the galenic preparations of the pharmacy, often used only for children sore throat. The dose needed is only the 1/3 of a pinch on the tongue."

---

I dont know about you guys but my wondro is black ...

 

[Broken man]

Thats used to bind metals even crossing the BBB.

The author in the PDF mentions alot of issues with acetaldehyde binding to almost anything (havent read about ALA in there tho) and alot of the resulting complex can be problematic which is why sulphur or L-Cystein seems to be preferred.



I think it would bind it well, however it binds alot of nutritious stuff too. One could argue to use it before sleeping or outside of meals but then alot of the acetaldehyde has already been produced by the fungi and already interacted/interefered with important, vital things the body needs.

When used with or close to meals that might reduce the amount of nutrition we would be able to get/assimilate from the food because its bound to the charcoal already? And if it already binds to the food, then it can't bind well to the acetaldehyde anymore?

Not realy sure ... Perhaps it can make sense in the case of @dogtrainer to deal with the die-off tho?

Lipoic Acid and Acetaldehyde

Alpha-lipoic acid ameliorates oxidative stress by increasing aldehyde dehydrogenase-2 activity in patients with acute coronary syndrome.

www.wellnessresources.com

 

[Ben.]

Lipoic Acid and Acetaldehyde

Alpha-lipoic acid ameliorates oxidative stress by increasing aldehyde dehydrogenase-2 activity in patients with acute coronary syndrome.

www.wellnessresources.com

Nice!

Altough i am still not sure if supplementing it long term is realy safe? I'd be sorta kinda afraid of it redistributing heavy metals and potentially harm the body, maybe the brain even?
Perhaps low dose with the other compounds mentioned in the threat could allow for a sensible approach?

 

[Broken man]

Nice!

Altough i am still not sure if supplementing it long term is realy safe? I'd be sorta kinda afraid of it redistributing heavy metals and potentially harm the body, maybe the brain even?
Perhaps low dose with the other compounds mentioned in the threat could allow for a sensible approach?

Your decision, there is a doctor that is treating liver failure with intravenous ALA, never read that he is testing his patients for heavy metals before. I am taking it for some time, if you are scared, just use taurine with it, I think you can find study here about it being protective against heavy metals. BTW alpha lipoic acid is the best thing for weak liver and damaged intestines. If you want to see some studies send me pm, I have alot of information about it.

https://www.embopress.org/doi/full/10.15252/embr.201949583
OSU-CHS researcher to study effects of lipoic acid on terminal liver disease - Oklahoma State University

 

[dogtrainer]

An update:

My background is four years of intense bloating and poor digestion. Horrid stuff.

since Jan 1 I have been treating my issues as if they are fungal. Reading a lot on Candida overgrowth and how the hyphae can complex with other microbes.

So I took high doses of SF722, Candex, and Pau Darco. And the bloating almost completely went way. The belching ended. I got some appetite back.

Then I encountered a naturopath who markets a product made of marshmallow root, slippery elm, and MSM. MethylSULFOnylmethane. She said it cured her chronic bloating 20 years ago and has worked great on many of her clients since. Sometimes completely eliminating their digestive problems. I decided to try it.

Just 1/2 teaspoon mixed with slippery elm caused a killer headache that lasted days. Felt just like the time I took wondro, and that time I took lots of oregano pills. According to her doses that function as antimicrobial are around the one Tablespoon range. According to her when patients reach that dose their symptoms go away.

So I have been on this MSM/slippery elm concoction for four days now and and I’m thinking about the wondro idea. Combine sulfur with some substance that persists down the digestive tract and you fight Candida wherever it touches. Slippery elm is often given to heal leaky gut and sore throat, precisely because of its ability to cost mucus lining.

If you look on amazon for leaky gut supplements, you’ll find MSM in a lot of them. And if you look up MSM on amazon, you’ll see in the reviews tons of people seeing it resolve their constipation and digestive problems. I think most people take it for arthritis/pain (which it works wonderfully well for) and for hair growth.

Reading the amazon reviews for MSM reminds me a lot of reading the Wondro “reviews” from the turn of the century. Most of them involved “stomach troubles” or “rheumatism.”

Symptom wise I’ve had lots of improvement. Im able to eat and I’m not nearly as bloated. I’m passing gas instead of simply ballooning, which is a victory. Stools are approaching normal and I’ve actually been able to get off cascara.

Oh and I got a stool test back that had a sky high Zonulin reading. Levels over 1000 when they should be under 106. This in and of itself could be why my bloating issues persist. The leaky gut creates an oxygenated local environment where aerobes grow instead of SCFA producers. Seal the gut, cut off the oxygen supply for the whack **** aerobic microbes, see symptomatic improvement?

I don’t know, too soon to tell if this is for real or not. But if you’re anything like me you’re always looking for new directions to go in.

So. If you’re “Wondro Curious,” but putting a spoonful of heated flax oil weirds you out...this might be a nice alternative.

Oh and the naturopath’s name was Kathleen Janel. You can look her up.

 

[Mauritio]

An update:

My background is four years of intense bloating and poor digestion. Horrid stuff.

since Jan 1 I have been treating my issues as if they are fungal. Reading a lot on Candida overgrowth and how the hyphae can complex with other microbes.

So I took high doses of SF722, Candex, and Pau Darco. And the bloating almost completely went way. The belching ended. I got some appetite back.

Then I encountered a naturopath who markets a product made of marshmallow root, slippery elm, and MSM. MethylSULFOnylmethane. She said it cured her chronic bloating 20 years ago and has worked great on many of her clients since. Sometimes completely eliminating their digestive problems. I decided to try it.

Just 1/2 teaspoon mixed with slippery elm caused a killer headache that lasted days. Felt just like the time I took wondro, and that time I took lots of oregano pills. According to her doses that function as antimicrobial are around the one Tablespoon range. According to her when patients reach that dose their symptoms go away.

So I have been on this MSM/slippery elm concoction for four days now and and I’m thinking about the wondro idea. Combine sulfur with some substance that persists down the digestive tract and you fight Candida wherever it touches. Slippery elm is often given to heal leaky gut and sore throat, precisely because of its ability to cost mucus lining.

If you look on amazon for leaky gut supplements, you’ll find MSM in a lot of them. And if you look up MSM on amazon, you’ll see in the reviews tons of people seeing it resolve their constipation and digestive problems. I think most people take it for arthritis/pain (which it works wonderfully well for) and for hair growth.

Reading the amazon reviews for MSM reminds me a lot of reading the Wondro “reviews” from the turn of the century. Most of them involved “stomach troubles” or “rheumatism.”

Symptom wise I’ve had lots of improvement. Im able to eat and I’m not nearly as bloated. I’m passing gas instead of simply ballooning, which is a victory. Stools are approaching normal and I’ve actually been able to get off cascara.

Oh and I got a stool test back that had a sky high Zonulin reading. Levels over 1000 when they should be under 106. This in and of itself could be why my bloating issues persist. The leaky gut creates an oxygenated local environment where aerobes grow instead of SCFA producers. Seal the gut, cut off the oxygen supply for the whack **** aerobic microbes, see symptomatic improvement?

I don’t know, too soon to tell if this is for real or not. But if you’re anything like me you’re always looking for new directions to go in.

So. If you’re “Wondro Curious,” but putting a spoonful of heated flax oil weirds you out...this might be a nice alternative.

Oh and the naturopath’s name was Kathleen Janel. You can look her up.

Thanks for sharing.
I'm sitting in the same boat as you. Chronic bloating and tend towards constipation.
At sone point I realized that things that are anti-fungal have the biggest effect on me. Nystatin or boron for example create intense detox reactions.
The only thing that helped a lot was high doses of vitamin C , but I don't want to keep taking those forever.

I might try the anti-fungal combo your NP suggests.

 

[Jam]

Thanks for sharing.
I'm sitting in the same boat as you. Chronic bloating and tend towards constipation.
At sone point I realized that things that are anti-fungal have the biggest effect on me. Nystatin or boron for example create intense detox reactions.
The only thing that helped a lot was high doses of vitamin C , but I don't want to keep taking those forever.

I might try the anti-fungal combo your NP suggests.

Have you tried quinine? I find red cinchona tincture works extremely well for bloating, taken after meals.

 

[Mauritio]

Have you tried quinine? I find red cinchona tincture works extremely well for bloating, taken after meals.

Only in the form of tonic water and it doesnt seem to do much for gut health, but I did feel its anti-serotonin/ pro-dopamine effect.
Does it help for constipation as well ?

 

[Jam]

Only in the form of tonic water and it doesnt seem to do much for gut health, but I did feel its anti-serotonin/ pro-dopamine effect.
Does it help for constipation as well ?

Tonic water does absolutely nothing to me or the wife. Red cinchona, powder or tincture, on the other hand, seems to work extremely well for bloating, and has much more noticeable anti-serotonin effects. Not sure if it helps constipation, but I suspect it does, since it is known to stimulate the digestive tract,

 

[Mauritio]

Tonic water does absolutely nothing to me or the wife. Red cinchona, powder or tincture, on the other hand, seems to work extremely well for bloating, and has much more noticeable anti-serotonin effects. Not sure if it helps constipation, but I suspect it does, since it is known to stimulate the digestive tract,

Ok, thanks! I'll check it out.
Can you recommend a good source ?

 

[Jam]

This one works, although it is on the weak side (1:10)

Amazon product ASIN B08B4VP1NXView: https://www.amazon.de/Cinchona-Pubescens-Succirubra-Alcohol-Free-Supplement/dp/B08B4VP1NX/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2HJE1X7SXN1X3&keywords=rote+cinchona&qid=1643060207&sprefix=red+cinchona%2Caps%2C129&sr=8-1

 

[Jam]

Otherwise, you can make capsules with this one, the batch I got seems fairly potent:

Amazon product ASIN B0185HWQMYView: http://www.amazon.de/-/en/H-1194-C-1K/dp/B0185HWQMY/ref=pd_vtp_3/260-6183478-9906841?pd_rd_w=4qkiR&pf_rd_p=3919d17e-2dc5-422c-a69e-bf5045c3c904&pf_rd_r=R20K1SKCG9MFD4FPTW4K&pd_rd_r=6a7f28a0-0b90-4203-8468-5998ce8124ff&pd_rd_wg=IFRci&pd_rd_i=B0185HWQMY&psc=1