Why You Need Calcium And Fat (Butyrate) To Be Fit And Healthy

[Peater Piper]

Westside did have a point about bacteria in the colon and butyrate synthesis, though. It's why there's some people going nuts with resistance starch. A diet naturally high in resistant starch and fiber could potentially lead to more butyrate production than you'd get from high butyrate foods.

 

[Stryker]

Butter is 3-4% butyrate but a human can produce 0.6g of butyrate per gram of RS.

Roasted potato is 3.3-4.4% RS , depending on if it is cooled or not.

So two decent potatoes (400g) could yield 8-10 grams of butyrate.

Which is equivalent to 300g~ of butter.

@Westside PUFAs

 

[amethyst]

Westside did have a point about bacteria in the colon and butyrate synthesis, though. It's why there's some people going nuts with resistance starch. A diet naturally high in resistant starch and fiber could potentially lead to more butyrate production than you'd get from high butyrate foods.

Okkkkaaayy...You are saying or westside was saying a diet in resistant starch and fiber leads to butyrate being produced? Well did anyone read the first article in this thread I posted? The first article I quoted from in this thread said exactly that here:

You can DIY butyrate, or at least your gut flora can, provided you eat enough fiber. Eating fiber increases production of butyrate, which might be one of the reasons why fiber intake is so strongly associated with reductions in inflammation and improvements in gut health. It’s not the fiber per se; it’s the butyrate that your gut flora make with it.

But as to fiber, the article was inferring (from my perspective anyway) that some people cannot handle lots of fiber, so they can and should get it from milk, cheese, butter etc.

So if Westside said that, I am in agreement with him.. But also, I do not agree that we can diss cheese, butter, milk etc. like Westside seems to want to poo poo (pun intended) get it-fiber and poo poo? Anyways, I am all for resistant starch found in fruit and veggies.. But I am also in favor of saturated fat found in the aged cheeses...so it's all good. We can't favor just one type of food group. For health it's important to eat all kinds of foods (fruits and veggies) and include the good saturated fats (cheese, milk, butter, coconut oil, in moderation. Too much of anything will make you gain weight.

 

[charlie]

“The food industry is promoting the use of various gums and starches, which are convenient thickeners and stabilizers for increasing shelf-life, with the argument that the butyric acid produced when they are fermented by intestinal bacteria is protective. However, intestinal fermentation increases systemic and brain serotonin, and the short-chain fatty acids can produce a variety of inflammatory and cytotoxic effect. Considering the longevity and stress-resistance of germ-free animals, choosing foods (such as raw carrots or cooked bamboo shoots or cooked mushrooms) which accelerate peristalsis and speed transit through the bowel, which suppressing bacterial growth, seems like a convenient approach to increasing longevity.” - Ray Peat

 

[amethyst]

“The food industry is promoting the use of various gums and starches, which are convenient thickeners and stabilizers for increasing shelf-life, with the argument that the butyric acid produced when they are fermented by intestinal bacteria is protective. However, intestinal fermentation increases systemic and brain serotonin, and the short-chain fatty acids can produce a variety of inflammatory and cytotoxic effect. Considering the longevity and stress-resistance of germ-free animals, choosing foods (such as raw carrots or cooked bamboo shoots or cooked mushrooms) which accelerate peristalsis and speed transit through the bowel, which suppressing bacterial growth, seems like a convenient approach to increasing longevity.” - Ray Peat

So, Ray is concluding that fiber that doesn't stay long in your stomach is better, because fiber that does stay long in your intestines leads to fermentation and more serotonin? See. I have the opposite of what Ray says about fiber. Raw carrots tend to bloat me. ( I prefer cooked carrots) Bananas, however, do not.

 

[James IV]

I'll say it again, I disagree. And you disagree with me. Great. There's no need to say "wow" or "it's strange" or "you're still arguing about this." You can state your opinion without those comments. All you have to say is "I disagree and here's why." This whole finger-wagging "because I said so" thing makes me want to say "wow, it's strange" right back.



Not every prisioner is on the juice. Kali is clearly on the juice and he's also not in jail.

.

You're right. Poor choice of phrasing on my part. I came to this board to find information to help me heal. I have done that, which is why I don't come here much anymore. I only stop by on occasion because people find old threads I commented in, and message me for help. I just don't think it's helpful to keep claiming fat makes you fat, when it just doesn't. Body weight is about energy balance, that has been proven in so many ways. I don't believe it's simple, but I do believe continuing to imply that fat will make you fat, or that people get fat because they can't or don't want to, give up thier rich food, is doing more harm than good for many of the less studied and more impressionable folks that visit this forum, as evidence by some of the pm's I recieve. I don't think singling out any macronutrient as good or bad, is helpful.
That's all I'd like to say. Thanks.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I just don't think it's helpful to keep claiming fat makes you fat, when it just doesn't.

But saying "it just doesn't," is just not an argument. I don't think people who are currently obese got that way from the protein they ingested, nor carbohydrate, whether starch or sugar due to de novo lipogenesis, nor fiber, or any micronutrient. All that's left is fat. Fat doesn't come from air.

Body weight is about energy balance, that has been proven in so many ways.

I think you use the term "body weight" too loosely. Be specific. Muscle weight? Held fluid (water weight)? Bone density? Or adipose tissue? I'm talking about adipose tissue. Fat. Obesity.

but I do believe continuing to imply that fat will make you fat, or that people get fat because they can't or don't want to, give up thier rich food, is doing more harm than good for many of the less studied and more impressionable folks that visit this forum, as evidence by some of the pm's I recieve.

It's a public forum. People are free to do as they wish under the rules. I receive many PM's too and people have told me that I've helped, not harmed them. But I'm not a guru. I just answer peoples questions. I'm not trying to convert them to anything. I don't care. I'll never meet anyone in person, not because I don't want to but because I don't see how I would. I don't care if people eat rich food or not. I don't care what anyone does. Nutrition is one of my hobbies and I like to discuss it with others who share that hobby. But I sure wish I came across someone like the current me ten years ago when I first got into this because it would have saved a lot of pain and money. But that's not how it works. You have to do it yourself and you're lucky if you come access someone who makes sense to you. But that's actually the problem, because everyone makes sense at some point when you first start out. Don't be so worried about "impressionable" people. They will do what they will do. It's just food. If anything, I tell people to stop all supplements. Telling people to take more supplements is actually dangerous advice.

I don't think singling out any macronutrient as good or bad, is helpful.

I don't think fat is "bad." It's a natural chemical that's vital to life. So your statement is too broad. The subject here is obesity. I think what the herb doctors are saying here about "abdominal" fat gain with people is because of the fat intake. Sure, if the "energy balance" was less, then there would be less adipose tissue. But again, that's too broad. People want to eat to satiation. And I think eating to satiation with moderate to high fat will lead to different results than eating to satiation with low fat. I should repeat that because that is my main argument: Eating to satiation with moderate to high fat will lead to different results than eating to satiation with low fat. Thank you. You just made me realize what my main argument against fat is.

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[James IV]

Ok. Glad I could help.

 

[lvysaur]

I can't take the people in that article seriously because they actually believe that one can obtain enough vitamin D from food.

I've seen papers, published in journals, state that the vitamin D content in milk made it an advantageous food in the neolithic era. It's very stupid, lol.

i think people love cheese and dairy fat because it tastes delicious. i don´t think they love polyunsaturated cooking oils. I never met one who said: damn. this PUFA oil tastes so delicious.

fry it in lard or in clariefied butter and you will taste the difference

Most people think fried fish, tartar sauce, potato chips, etc., taste great. As a matter of fact, PUFA fried food actually tastes better than SFA fried, in my opinion.

As an anecdote I was trying to be vegetarian during my first pregnancy and my son has short stature. My 2 nd pregnancy I was more WAPF and drank a glass of raw milk a day with plenty of fats also did more fruit towards the end and he is 3.5 yrs younger than my 1rst and has caught up to him in growth at 4.5!!

So your younger son is 4.5 years, your older is 8 years, and they're the same height?

Only poor people tolerate low fat and low protein. There's another thread on here uncritical of the idea that babies know what's best to eat and don't need to be forced.

This sort of thing is silly.

 

[Peater Piper]

Okkkkaaayy...You are saying or westside was saying a diet in resistant starch and fiber leads to butyrate being produced?

He did say "I think the production of butyrate from our bacteria is the most natural and healthiest way to get butyrate." Obviously you're aware of it too, just saying that some people probably never touch butter and still get plenty of butyrate indirectly, perhaps even more than dairy eaters that don't consume much fiber and resistant starch. But I have nothing against dairy and dairy fat, I consume plenty of it every day, I just wish the quality stuff was more affordable.

 

[amethyst]

He did say "I think the production of butyrate from our bacteria is the most natural and healthiest way to get butyrate." Obviously you're aware of it too, just saying that some people probably never touch butter and still get plenty of butyrate indirectly, perhaps even more than dairy eaters that don't consume much fiber and resistant starch. But I have nothing against dairy and dairy fat, I consume plenty of it every day, I just wish the quality stuff was more affordable.

I get where you are coming from

 

[Quality]

Wonder if butyrate is the reason why I have been incredibly good mood results from HMB (beta-hydroxy beta-methylbutyric acid).
If you look at the structure of HMB it quite closely resembles GHB (gamma-hydroxybutyric acid) amd Butyric acid

Butyric acid:

HMB:

GHB:

My guess is butyrate (through food or through fermentation in the gut) somehow converts to HMB (anticatabaolic) and GHB (mood boosting) in the body.
Probably why people including myself get a good mood boost from eating full fat dairy, basically your ramping up your own bodys endogenous production of GHB (atleast in my theory).

 

[Peater Piper]

Very cool theory, Quality!

 

[dfspcc20]

As a matter of fact, PUFA fried food actually tastes better than SFA fried, in my opinion.

Things like lard, tallow, clarified butter all impart a unique taste to the things fried therein. It's often a taste people aren't used to, say, from their childhood, so they think it tastes "weird". Refined liquid vegetable oil usually doesn't do that, as long as the oil is changed frequently enough.