Why You Need Calcium And Fat (Butyrate) To Be Fit And Healthy

[Westside PUFAs]

This list is dumb, other than ice cream and an extensive wikipedia list of cheeses, the rest are PUFA.

Well, that's kinda rude to call it dumb. It's true. That is what people eat. You can't simply ignore the saturated dairy fat portions of those foods. They are not just pufa.

Even if you made all of those without pufa, the fat storage effect of dairy fat still stands, in an overconsumption context. Did you not see the Ray Peat clip I posted about butter? He clearly respond to the person who asked "Is there a problem with exceeding a certain a level of butter?" That is outside of pufa. As well as the other Peat quotes I've posted.

With the new search engine I can find similar ones about high fat cheeses that he mentioned.

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[Ahanu]

WP isnt saying dairy fat is what is driving westernized obesity hes saying just because dairy fat is for the most part saturated and doesnt have the postive feedback loops for stress that pufas have isnt a free pass to stuff your face with it

yes well than i missunterstood him. i got the impression that even a little dairy fat is bad. like drinking a cup of milk to the meals and a bit of cheese and butter.

Even if you made all of those without pufa, the fat storage effect of dairy fat still stands, in an overconsumption context

Overconsumption is the problem not dairy fat. If you get fat on dairy then you eat too much.

 

[Ahanu]

They will also say a lot of starches fried on top of your list,coca cola etc keep in mind the cheese toppings from fast food outlets contain added sugar as do fries from many fast food outlets,pizzas have added sugar also.

If dairy fat from healthy animals is so bad how can the French consume so much high fat cheese and still have the least obese nation in the world,they really do consume a lot of cheese,many thin people regularly gorge on it.

Overconsumption is the problem with obese people and suppressing metabolism on top of this

Exactly!

 

[Luann]

This whole thing about Ray saw thin people in a place where there was milk fat, but he saw that they were fat if they just had grains and stuff to eat. Duh, a food that went through a cow's gut, its fat gets more saturated in the gut. So that fat is good to eat, or at least not as bad as the pure grain, but it is not a cure for all kinds of heart stuff / death. You see that a lot. "Good fats are the new thing! You have to eat them!" Well no, but if you eat them in place of oils, that's a start.

 

[Ahanu]

No need to be afraid of dairy fat:

Set against the proportion of total deaths attributable to the life-threatening diseases in the UK, vascular disease, diabetes and cancer, the results of meta-analyses provide evidence of an overall survival advantage from the consumption of milk and dairy foods.
The survival advantage of milk and dairy consumption: an overview of evidence from cohort studies of vascular diseases, diabetes and cancer. - PubMed - NCBI

Overall, evidence suggests individuals who consume a greater amount of milk and dairy products have a slightly better health advantage than those who do not consume milk and dairy products.
Dairy products in the food chain: their impact on health. - PubMed - NCBI

Children who drank the most milk gained more weight, but the added calories appeared responsible. Contrary to our hypotheses, dietary calcium and skim and 1% milk were associated with weight gain, but dairy fat was not. Drinking large amounts of milk may provide excess energy to some children.
Milk, dairy fat, dietary calcium, and weight gain: a longitudinal study of adolescents. - PubMed - NCBI

Total and especially full-fat dairy food intakes are inversely and independently associated with metabolic syndrome in middle-aged and older adults, associations that seem to be mediated by dairy saturated fatty acids. Dietary recommendations to avoid full-fat dairy intake are not supported by our findings.
Total and Full-Fat, but Not Low-Fat, Dairy Product Intakes are Inversely Associated with Metabolic Syndrome in Adults. - PubMed - NCBI

Conclusions—In two prospective cohorts, higher plasma dairy fatty acid concentrations were associated with lower incident diabetes. Results were similar for erythrocyte 17:0. Our findings highlight need to better understand potential health effects of dairy fat; and dietary and metabolic determinants of these fatty acids
Circulating Biomarkers of Dairy Fat and Risk of Incident Diabetes Mellitus Among US Men and Women in Two Large Prospective Cohorts | Circulation

The evidence indicating healthful effects of milk and milk product consumption on prevention of cancers is considerably greater than those representing harmful impacts. In fact, there is certainly no evidence that milk consumption might increase death from any condition...
Moreover, a decisive and conscientious consideration of the relevant literature reveals that the probable harmful effect of milk and dairy product consumption related to cancer is dose-dependent. Therefore, harm for normal people could only occur with absolutely excessive and indiscriminate consumption rather than regular moderate daily intake..
Effects of Milk and Milk Products Consumption on Cancer: A Review

There are several bioactive components found in milk fat, milk proteins, and other components that have potential benefits for health maintenance and the reduction of chronic disease risk, and this reinforces the need for the dietetic community to reconsider current recommendations on dairy products and human health.
Michigan Dairy Review

Increased dairy consumption without energy restriction might not lead to a significant change in weight or body composition
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v36/n12/full/ijo2011269a.html

A high intake of dairy fat was associated with a lower risk of developing central obesity and a low intake of dairy fat was associated with a higher risk of central obesity...
http://f1000.com/prime/718282908

 

[Peater Piper]

i agree , in the past i experienced this first hand.. i think at even 100g of dairy fat a day ontop of my diet i noticed an increase in body fat.. especially in the face and under the chin, belly and pectoral areas and enlargement/increased puffiness in the nipples

This is very personal though, no? I know of at least three people here that experienced weight loss by increasing their dairy fat consumption. There's also examples of people having horrible experiences going very low fat. Unfortunately one diet doesn't suit all, otherwise our lives would be much easier.

 

[lollipop]

This is very personal though, no?...Unfortunately one diet doesn't suit all, otherwise our lives would be much easier.

+1 common sense actually.

 

[amethyst]

Go talk to obese people and ask them what they eat. I'll leave out the pufa oil parts and just focus on the dairy fat parts:

Pizza, pizza, and more pizza, ice cream, ice cream, and more ice cream, cheese sticks, various cheeses a la carte by the tub; cheddar, mozzarella, brie, gouda, gorgonzola (blue), parmesan, asiago, feta, swiss, pepper jack, burritos with cheese and/or sour cream, nachos with cheese and/or sour cream, tacos with cheese and/or sour cream, pasta with cheese, french fries with cheese on top, mozzarella sticks, bagels with cream cheese, bread with butter, cookies made with butter, pancakes with butter, waffles with butter, french toast with butter, cheesecake, pies with cheese, pastries like Cannoli which are a huge amount of dairy cream wrapped in a flaky crust, any milk that is not skim, any yogurt/kefir that is not skim, coffee with cream or half and half daily.

inb4 someone says "mmm sounds good!!!"

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Wow. Just wow. It is VERY obvious you did not even read the links I posted at the bottom of the article. If you actually read the accompanying articles, you will see that you are completely wrong about what you said here. The articles were NOT discussing pancakes, pizza etc. What the articles were saying (if you bother to read them) were that certain types of cheeses primarily aged cheese and also (including butter and cream) were what they found to have high levels of the acid called butyrate, which, the studies found, to contribute to anti-inflammatory qualities, and higher metabolism, among other things. But you would have to read the articles to find that out.

You are aware that it is inflammation that makes people fat? AND overeating.

The articles I posted said NOTHING about pizza. Or pancakes etc. etc. Again, why does pizza, and people who overeat it, tend to gain weight? Because of the refined wheat in the pizza causes inflammation. Anyone who overeats ANYTHING is going to gain weight. Including pizza. It's not rocket science to say if you eat too much, you will gain weight.

But, if you eat good aged cheeses along with good fats like butter, in moderation, you will not get fat. And, it will probably contribute to one's health and satiation. If people eat the aged cheese, (like the French tend to do, which is also cited in the articles) you are more apt to eat LESS because the butyrate in the said cheese is making you feel satisfied, your gut is happy and your brain, which needs fat, is happy. It's a win-win duh. Go ahead and be miserable on your no fat diet, Eventually you will crave all the bad stuff because you were not giving your body what it actually needed.
* Oh, and I used to eat little to no fat and I was underweight, malnourished and sick. Now I eat good fat and cheeses, have not gained weight and am healthy. So the proof is in the pudding. Eventually eating no fat, as I said to someone else, might work in the beginning, if you are trying to lose or stay at a certain weight, but eventually you will crash and burn.

Do me a favor. Go back and actually read the articles.

 

[amethyst]

No need to be afraid of dairy fat:

Set against the proportion of total deaths attributable to the life-threatening diseases in the UK, vascular disease, diabetes and cancer, the results of meta-analyses provide evidence of an overall survival advantage from the consumption of milk and dairy foods.
The survival advantage of milk and dairy consumption: an overview of evidence from cohort studies of vascular diseases, diabetes and cancer. - PubMed - NCBI

Overall, evidence suggests individuals who consume a greater amount of milk and dairy products have a slightly better health advantage than those who do not consume milk and dairy products.
Dairy products in the food chain: their impact on health. - PubMed - NCBI

Children who drank the most milk gained more weight, but the added calories appeared responsible. Contrary to our hypotheses, dietary calcium and skim and 1% milk were associated with weight gain, but dairy fat was not. Drinking large amounts of milk may provide excess energy to some children.
Milk, dairy fat, dietary calcium, and weight gain: a longitudinal study of adolescents. - PubMed - NCBI

Total and especially full-fat dairy food intakes are inversely and independently associated with metabolic syndrome in middle-aged and older adults, associations that seem to be mediated by dairy saturated fatty acids. Dietary recommendations to avoid full-fat dairy intake are not supported by our findings.
Total and Full-Fat, but Not Low-Fat, Dairy Product Intakes are Inversely Associated with Metabolic Syndrome in Adults. - PubMed - NCBI

Conclusions—In two prospective cohorts, higher plasma dairy fatty acid concentrations were associated with lower incident diabetes. Results were similar for erythrocyte 17:0. Our findings highlight need to better understand potential health effects of dairy fat; and dietary and metabolic determinants of these fatty acids
Circulating Biomarkers of Dairy Fat and Risk of Incident Diabetes Mellitus Among US Men and Women in Two Large Prospective Cohorts | Circulation

The evidence indicating healthful effects of milk and milk product consumption on prevention of cancers is considerably greater than those representing harmful impacts. In fact, there is certainly no evidence that milk consumption might increase death from any condition...
Moreover, a decisive and conscientious consideration of the relevant literature reveals that the probable harmful effect of milk and dairy product consumption related to cancer is dose-dependent. Therefore, harm for normal people could only occur with absolutely excessive and indiscriminate consumption rather than regular moderate daily intake..
Effects of Milk and Milk Products Consumption on Cancer: A Review

There are several bioactive components found in milk fat, milk proteins, and other components that have potential benefits for health maintenance and the reduction of chronic disease risk, and this reinforces the need for the dietetic community to reconsider current recommendations on dairy products and human health.
Michigan Dairy Review

Increased dairy consumption without energy restriction might not lead to a significant change in weight or body composition
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v36/n12/full/ijo2011269a.html

A high intake of dairy fat was associated with a lower risk of developing central obesity and a low intake of dairy fat was associated with a higher risk of central obesity...
http://f1000.com/prime/718282908

Exactly. Nice to see someone who actually has common sense commenting intelligently here.

 

[Bahaa El wazzan]

Thank u amethyst

 

[Stryker]

This is very personal though, no? I know of at least three people here that experienced weight loss by increasing their dairy fat consumption. There's also examples of people having horrible experiences going very low fat. Unfortunately one diet doesn't suit all, otherwise our lives would be much easier.

I wonder if those people you mentioned might have lost more weight if they didn't consume the dairy fat and took calcium and MPI instead ...

If everything else is in near perfect balance I do not know how one can argue that the fatty acids contained in dairy could increase weight loss and or markers of health

 

[ATP]

But the main reason for me is more fat = more serotonin

RP "A large carbohydrate meal increases the ratio of tryptophan to the competing amino acids, and it has been proposed that this can shift the body’s balance toward increased serotonin."

Would you say that is incorrect?

 

[Stryker]

RP "A large carbohydrate meal increases the ratio of tryptophan to the competing amino acids, and it has been proposed that this can shift the body’s balance toward increased serotonin."

Would you say that is incorrect?

No definately not , which is why I like to consume protein to carbs at no more than 4:1 in the same meal

120 carbs 30 protein for example

Or if I can't eat protein
NALT and L-Phenylalanine make a good substitute

 

[Westside PUFAs]

Wow. Just wow. It is VERY obvious you did not even read the links I posted at the bottom of the article. If you actually read the accompanying articles, you will see that you are completely wrong about what you said here. The articles were NOT discussing pancakes, pizza etc. What the articles were saying (if you bother to read them) were that certain types of cheeses primarily aged cheese and also (including butter and cream) were what they found to have high levels of the acid called butyrate, which, the studies found, to contribute to anti-inflammatory qualities, and higher metabolism, among other things. But you would have to read the articles to find that out.

You are aware that it is inflammation that makes people fat? AND overeating.

The articles I posted said NOTHING about pizza. Or pancakes etc. etc. Again, why does pizza, and people who overeat it, tend to gain weight? Because of the refined wheat in the pizza causes inflammation. Anyone who overeats ANYTHING is going to gain weight. Including pizza. It's not rocket science to say if you eat too much, you will gain weight.

But, if you eat good aged cheeses along with good fats like butter, in moderation, you will not get fat. And, it will probably contribute to one's health and satiation. If people eat the aged cheese, (like the French tend to do, which is also cited in the articles) you are more apt to eat LESS because the butyrate in the said cheese is making you feel satisfied, your gut is happy and your brain, which needs fat, is happy. It's a win-win duh. Go ahead and be miserable on your no fat diet, Eventually you will crave all the bad stuff because you were not giving your body what it actually needed.

* Oh, and I used to eat little to no fat and I was underweight, malnourished and sick. Now I eat good fat and cheeses, have not gained weight and am healthy. So the proof is in the pudding. Eventually eating no fat, as I said to someone else, might work in the beginning, if you are trying to lose or stay at a certain weight, but eventually you will crash and burn.

Do me a favor. Go back and actually read the articles.

Some of your comments were very rude:

"Wow. Just wow. It is VERY obvious"

"If you actually read the accompanying articles"

"Go ahead and be miserable on your no fat diet"

"Do me a favor. Go back and actually read the articles."

Really?



There is no need to be rude. We are just having a discussion.

I did read them and as I've said, I disagree.

You are aware that it is inflammation that makes people fat?

Because of the refined wheat in the pizza causes inflammation.

Inflammation is a broad term. I do not think inflammation is the actual cause of people being obese. I think it's what they eat, regardless of inflammation. I think a person can eat the most anti-inflammatory diet, be super anti-inflamed and still become obese by eating fat. They can do so in a way that they can't from carbohydrate aka starch and sugar and a way that they can't from protein. So I think it's the ingestion of dietary fat of all forms that is the actually cause of obesity.

Anyone who overeats ANYTHING is going to gain weight.

We just have a fundamental disagreement. I do not think "anything" will be converted and stored as fat and cause "weight gain". I don't think carbohydrate does, nor protein, nor any micronutrient, nor fiber. I think fat will be stored as fat. People like @Stryker and I hold the position that carbohydrate aka starch and sugar will not be first, converted into fat even if "over-consumed" and then second, stored as fat. It will be stored as glycogen and any "excess" if glycogen is full, will be burned off through body heat aka the resting metabolism. We think that protein will also not be converted and stored as fat. It will be used to rebuild tissue and enzymes etc., and any excess protein will either be damaging your kidneys and eventually simply peed out through urine through the nitrogen/urea cycle. We believe that fat, of all kinds (except the special medium chain triglycerides which are mostly in coconut, because they are metabolized differently than all other fats, (assuming that the coconut fat has not been denatured in a way that would then change it metabolism) there are some MCT's in dairy in smaller amounts but it's the other dairy fat that is not MCT that we do beleive is easily stored as fat* see below), are very easily stored as fat and it's not simply about over eating it because that could still end up making someone obese if they didn't think they were over eating it. They could just be "eating" and feel fine but over time their body fat is growing and it would not be growing if their fat intake was lower. There are minor individual variables such as daily movement and specific health conditions but in general we think when it comes to obesity, it's dietary fat that is causing it. All of it, pufa, mufa, and non-MCT dairy SFA. Fat that is directly swallowed by people day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year. It just adds up over time.

When I say that about the pizza and bagels, I am saying that it's not the flour in the pizza and bagels that is actually being stored as fat. It's the fat, including the saturated fat. It's not the sugar in ice cream that's being converted and stored as fat. It's the fat. Obese people are not obese from drinking soda and eating candy. Nor are they obese from the flour they eat in the bread, pizza, bagel, and pasta. It's the fat that is always accompanied with it. It's the pufa oil that is always there and it's the dairy fat that is always there and it's the occasional olive oil that can be there and for some vegans it's the tons of nut and seed butters and avocados that are always there. If people took out the fat and replaced it with more carbohydrate, the same amount in calories that was originally from fat, there would be no obesity because it's not the carbohydrate. It's the fat.

"It is concluded that DNL is not the pathway of first resort for added dietary CHO, in humans. Under most dietary conditions, the two major macronutrient energy sources (CHO and fat) are therefore not interconvertible currencies;"

In other words, carbohydrate is not easily converted into fat. And neither is protein because protein is converted to carbohydrate first if need be, not fat. Fat doesn't need to be converted. It already is fat.

De novo lipogenesis in humans: metabolic and regulatory aspects. - PubMed - NCBI

*"Milk fat contains approximately 400 different fatty acid, which make it the most complex of all natural fats. The milk fatty acids are derived almost equally from two sources, the feed and the microbial activity in the rumen of the cow and the lipids in bovine milk are mainly present in globules as an oil-in-water emulsion. Almost 70% of the fat in Swedish milk is saturated of which around 11% comprises short-chain fatty acids, almost half of which is butyric acid. Approximately 25% of the fatty acids in milk are mono-unsaturated and 2.3% are poly-unsaturated with omega-6/omega-3 ratio around 2.3. Approximately 2.7% are trans fatty acids."

It's all of the non-MCT fat in the milk that is stored as fat.

Fatty acids in bovine milk fat

That is our argument. There is no need to be rude. If you disagree, simply kindly state what you disagree about.

.

 

[Ahanu]

People like @Stryker and I hold the position that carbohydrate aka starch and sugar will not be first, converted into fat even if "over-consumed" and then second, stored as fat. It will be stored as glycogen and any "excess" if glycogen is full, will be burned off through body heat aka the resting metabolism

I would realy like it to be true! But evolutionary that would make no sense to me. Do have an explanation why we would not be able to convert carbs and protein into Fat?

Another thing: there seem to be a few people here who cannot raise their temperature. Why do they not Just add a kilogram sugar to their daylie food. It would be converted to bodyheat according to that Theorie and not to Fat!?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I would realy like it to be true! But evolutionary that would make no sense to me. Do have an explanation why we would not be able to convert carbs and protein into Fat?

That's what the gut bacteria are for. See this video where Peat talks about making our own fats and that since we can make our own fats, he thinks "it's best to get as much sugar and starch in the diet," but "preferably sugars from fruit and milk." Which fits in line with what I'm saying here in the context of keeping fat low and getting most of your calories from carbohydrate, as well as his quotes on not over consuming dairy fat.

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[Ahanu]

That's what the gut bacteria are for. See this video where Peat talks about making our own fats and that since we can make our own fats, he thinks "it's best to get as much sugar and starch in the diet," but "preferably sugars from fruit and milk." Which fits in line with what I'm saying here in the context of keeping fat low and getting most of your calories from carbohydrate, as well as his quotes on not over consuming dairy fat.

Yes, not over consuming! But for example if i eat 4000 calorie a day. Even if i get most of it from carbs there is space enough for quite some dairy Fat.

What i meant evolutionary: in times where there was a lot to eat it would have been an advandtage if the extra calorie were stored, no matter the source. So the theorie that you cannot get fat with carbs seems limited. And if so, then we are back at the impaired metabolism and over consumption as the reason for our obese population.

 

[Peater Piper]

I wonder if those people you mentioned might have lost more weight if they didn't consume the dairy fat and took calcium and MPI instead ...

If everything else is in near perfect balance I do not know how one can argue that the fatty acids contained in dairy could increase weight loss and or markers of health

To your first pondering, I obviously don't know the answer, but there's some evidence that a lot of the benefits of dairy on metabolism are due to the calcium and the fat (a lot of studies have been posted already citing the potential benefit). The protein itself, especially the BCAAs, have the ability to impair insulin sensitivity, at least in the short term.

Dairy consumption and insulin resistance: the role of body fat, physical activity, and energy intake. - PubMed - NCBI

Results showed that women in the highest quartile of dairy consumption had significantly greater log-transformed HOMA values (0.41 ± 0.53) than those in the middle-two quartiles (0.22 ± 0.55) or the lowest quartile (0.19 ± 0.58) (F = 6.90, P = 0.0091). The association remained significant after controlling for each potential confounder individually and all covariates simultaneously. Adjusting for differences in energy intake weakened the relationship most, but the association remained significant. Of the 11 potential confounders, only protein intake differed significantly across the dairy categories, with those consuming high dairy also consuming more total protein than their counterparts. Apparently, high dairy intake is a significant predictor of insulin resistance in middle-aged, nondiabetic women.

An intermediate breakdown product of valine may be partially to blame.
A branched-chain amino acid metabolite drives vascular fatty acid transport and causes insulin resistance. - PubMed - NCBI

Obviously BCAAs are useful in certain situations, and I know there's people here consuming plenty of milk and doing well, so again, it's another situation where we have to judge our own personal results.

As for why dairy fat could aid in weight loss (or, put another way, prevent weight gain), that's being hypothesized. One theory is that metabolites in the fat activate uncoupling proteins to burn brown fat. Coconut oil can have similar effects due to the MCTs.

Cooperative action of bioactive components in milk fat with PPARs may explain its anti-diabetogenic properties. - PubMed - NCBI

Numerous observational studies including large prospective studies found that a high intake of dairy fat or markers of dairy fat were inversely associated with the risk of type 2 diabetes. These observations suggest that dairy fat could contain components with anti-diabetogenic properties. Candidates for the antidiabetic affect are rumenic and vaccenic acids, phytanic and pristanic acids vitamin A and β-carotene and butyric acid. The role of these compounds in glucose homeostasis and energy balance is discussed. A common feature is that all are agonists for one or more of the three PPAR isoforms that are expressed in metabolically active tissue, such as the liver, skeletal muscle and adipose tissue where they play a critical role in regulating energy balance and the metabolism of fatty acids and glucose, the main energy sources. Because PPARs have a larger ligand binding pocket than other nuclear receptors they can be activated by a wide range of agonists. Whereas individual components may not be present in sufficient concentration to produce a physiological effect such an effect may be obtained by several components acting in concert, and forms the basis of the hypothesis. PPAR agonists such as anthocyanidins and resveratrol present in nondairy items may also contribute to outcome. In addition, PPAR-α, -β and -γ are abundant in brown adipose tissue where agonists and cold exposure induce uncoupling protein-1 expression in the mitochondria where it acts to generate heat at the expense of storing energy. Animal studies demonstrated that most milk fat bioactive compounds induced uncoupling protein-1 expression in brown adipose tissue, which was associated with suppression of diet-induced obesity and improvement in insulin sensitivity.

Certainly I wouldn't say dairy fat's a requirement for good health, and in fact it seems to be quite detrimental for some people, but it seems like it can have beneficial effects in others. Natedawgh seemed to be the biggest proponent. Unfortunately I don't think he posts here anymore, but he was getting great results with a lot of sugar, butter, and cream. Others are doing well by cutting back on the carbs a bit and favoring saturated fat (including dairy) for energy. Then you have westside and twy doing great with tons of starch, tca300's thriving with lots of low fat dairy and fruit/juice. Any time I've tried to cut back on the fat and add more carbs I've felt horrible, so for whatever reason I have to favor a moderate fat diet for the moment. Different strokes for different folks.

Also, here's an interesting take from Edward Edmunds. Saturated fat can promote thyroid activity and increase thermogenesis in cold weather better than a high carbohydrate diet. So high carb-low fat may be better suited for someone living in the tropics, but if you're living in snow half the year, saturated fat may work better.
Thyroid function and saturated fat

 

[Atalanta]

As an anecdote I was trying to be vegetarian during my first pregnancy and my son has short stature. My 2 nd pregnancy I was more WAPF and drank a glass of raw milk a day with plenty of fats also did more fruit towards the end and he is 3.5 yrs younger than my 1rst and has caught up to him in growth at 4.5!!

As an anecdote, my mother has never been a milk drinker and never ate high-fat nor high protein during her child-bearing years, and yet all of her children(sons and daughters) grew tall and slender.

 

[Quality]

Eating full fat yoghurt, eggs, tons of goat cheese everyday and im very lean.
Currently also on sulforaphane (hdac inhibitor) which it has in common with (sodium) butyrate which is also a hdac inhibitor, great effect on mood so far.
Look it up on other forums, hdac inhibitors work through fear extinction a completely different mechanism than ssri's/stims which tend to change personality, seems hdac inhibitors do not, in fact it seems it allows me to be the best version of myself.
Planning on buying some sodium butyrate next and hopefully it will have nice synergy with Miyarisan (Clostridium Butyricum - a butyrate producing probiotic).
edit: forgot to add resistant starch apparantly also has its uses for butyrate production.