Water Retention

[jlneuro]

I've been dealing with water retention, primarily in my legs, for quite a while now. When I wake up in the morning, I have zero water retention in my legs but I have bags under my eyes. Throughout the day, the retention seems to shift to my lower body, especially in my calves to the point where wearing socks actually hurts a bit. I'm a 20yr male in college and have tried quite a few things (Peat and other) to resolve my edema, but nothing has really worked to this point. I plan to start taking T3 and pregnenolone, but would rather figure out a more sustainable solution if possible. If anyone has any tips/ideas or has figured out a way to cure their own edema, I would be super interested to hear them!

 

[RKIII]

I had edema last fall just like you were describing. The bones that look like 'bumps' on either side of my ankle would be visible in the morning but as the day wore on would disappear as fluid built up in my legs. Socks ended up feeling tight and I would end up with pitted sock lines from where the elastic pressed against my skin. I ended up with having a thyroid issue that was causing the water retention.

I would consider getting some bloodwork done before adding T3 or pregnenolone. Edema is kind of a big deal.

 

[jlneuro]

@RKIII I forgot to mention that I did get blood work done and it turns out that I'm borderline hypothyroid. Do you recommend that I take T3 and/or pregnenolone? Or were you able to resolve the water retention through natural means?

 

[RKIII]

I would see a doctor about the edema. The water retention you are seeing is troubling but it the water retention you can't see that needs to be checked out. Water can collect around the heart which can cause the heart to work harder to pump blood. If you add pregnemolone or thyroid which can both impact heart rate, when the heart is already working harder than it should - you will be putting even
more strain on it.

I know that is probably not the answer you wanted to read but trying to optimize hormones in a body that is not functioning properly does not make sense to me. Thyroid very well could be the reason for water retention, but before trying to optimize it check to make sure something else is not going on.

 

[milk_lover]

Do you eat bread? I find the days I eat bread I get edema
Also sometimes seafood gives me edema

 

[jlneuro]

@RKIII Sounds good. I'll check back with my doctor although she couldn't figure it out when I asked her a few months ago. She ran bloodwork and noticed that my heart was beating at a low 60 bpm. Perhaps with some more bloodwork she'll get a better idea.

@milk_lover Yes I do eat bread, but I'll take a few days off and see if it helps.

 

[Milena]

Dis-regulated hormones a prime possibility. Too little salt. Salt-wasting because of high aldosterone. Just three possibilities.

 

[A.R]

I would see a doctor about the edema. The water retention you are seeing is troubling but it the water retention you can't see that needs to be checked out. Water can collect around the heart which can cause the heart to work harder to pump blood. If you add pregnemolone or thyroid which can both impact heart rate, when the heart is already working harder than it should - you will be putting even
more strain on it.

I know that is probably not the answer you wanted to read but trying to optimize hormones in a body that is not functioning properly does not make sense to me. Thyroid very well could be the reason for water retention, but before trying to optimize it check to make sure something else is not going on.

When you suffered from water retention, do you think your heart may have also been suffering from water collected around it?

 

[jlneuro]

When you suffered from water retention, do you think your heart may have also been suffering from water collected around it?

Definitely a possibility. I do sometimes get heart palpitations, especially when under stress and/or a high dose of caffeine, but I'm not sure how I would know that I have water collecting around my heart. Also, I have had many issues with my lungs in the past, including asthma (not anymore) and a spontaneous pneumothorax (lung puncture) a few years ago. Perhaps this is due to internal edema?

 

[A.R]

Definitely a possibility. I do sometimes get heart palpitations, especially when under stress and/or a high dose of caffeine, but I'm not sure how I would know that I have water collecting around my heart. Also, I have had many issues with my lungs in the past, including asthma (not anymore) and a spontaneous pneumothorax (lung puncture) a few years ago. Perhaps this is due to internal edema?

It's quite scary to read about this condition. Are you/were you overweight when you had water retention?

 

[jlneuro]

@A.R I'm not skinny but definitely not overweight (I still have edema in my legs). I'm 5'11'' and about 180-185 pounds.

 

[Ledo]

Something poisoning you?

 

[jlneuro]

What do you mean?

Something poisoning you?

 

[Ledo]

What do you mean?

Any toxin, arsenic in food, pesticide in the environment, occupational exposure to chemicals...

 

[jlneuro]

@Ledo Hmm. I'm not sure. Don't think I'm particularly exposed to anything but it's definitely possible..

 

[Kyle Bigman]

Dis-regulated hormones a prime possibility. Too little salt. Salt-wasting because of high aldosterone. Just three possibilities.

doesn't salt retain water?

 

[LucH]

doesn't salt retain water?

Wrong question. The question should have been: Why does water follow sodium?
=> electroytes' unbalance. See Salt, energy, metabolic rate, and longevity Ray PEAT
Quote: “One of the things that happen when there isn’t enough sodium in the diet is that more aldosterone is synthesized. Aldosterone causes less sodium to be lost in the urine and sweat, but it achieves that at the expense of the increased loss of potassium, magnesium, and probably calcium. The loss of potassium leads to vasoconstriction, which contributes to heart and kidney failure and high blood pressure. The loss of magnesium contributes to vasoconstriction, inflammation, and bone loss. Magnesium deficiency is extremely common, but a little extra salt in the diet makes it easier to retain the magnesium in our foods."
by Ray Peat, PhD

Quote: “Sodium, in association with serum albumin, is essential for maintaining blood volume. Without adequate sodium, the serum albumin is unable to keep water from leaving the blood and entering the tissues. The tissues swell as the volume of blood is reduced.”
Source: Tom Brewer, obstetrician, about the importance of prenatal nutrition, emphasizing adequate protein (especially milk), calories and salt.

See also the lack of Carbon dioxide:
An important function of carbon dioxide is to regulate the circulation of positively charged ions, alkali metals, such as sodium and calcium. When too much calcium gets into a cell, it activates many enzymes, prevents muscles and nerve cells from relaxing, and eventually kills the cell. The constant formation of carbon dioxide in the cell allows the cell to remove calcium, along with the small amount of sodium that constantly enters the cell.
When there is a suitable level of sodium in the extracellular fluid, the continuous inward movement of sodium ions in the resting cell activates an enzyme, the sodium-potassium ATPase, causing the ATP breaks down into ADP and phosphate, which boosts fuel and oxygen consumption to maintain an adequate level of ATP. Increasing the sodium concentration increases the carbon dioxide production and the energy consumption of the cell. Sodium, by increasing the production of carbon dioxide, protects against the excitatory, toxic effects of intracellular calcium.

Note: optimum intake of sodium (according to taste, progressively): 3.7 gr (between 4-6 gr optimum).
But mind poor potassium intake (4700 mg), after all. Ca optimal at 840 mg. Mg at 450 mg.
hope it will help.
See kate Deering, James Dinicolantonio and Jason Fung (The salt Fix) if you want more scientific "explanations"

Interesting links (in French):
Comprendre le fonctionnement du sodium
Équilibre Sodium et Potassium – Compensation par l’organisme

 

[LadyRae]

Wrong question. The question should have been: Why does water follow sodium?
=> electroytes' unbalance. See Salt, energy, metabolic rate, and longevity Ray PEAT
Quote: “One of the things that happen when there isn’t enough sodium in the diet is that more aldosterone is synthesized. Aldosterone causes less sodium to be lost in the urine and sweat, but it achieves that at the expense of the increased loss of potassium, magnesium, and probably calcium. The loss of potassium leads to vasoconstriction, which contributes to heart and kidney failure and high blood pressure. The loss of magnesium contributes to vasoconstriction, inflammation, and bone loss. Magnesium deficiency is extremely common, but a little extra salt in the diet makes it easier to retain the magnesium in our foods."
by Ray Peat, PhD

Quote: “Sodium, in association with serum albumin, is essential for maintaining blood volume. Without adequate sodium, the serum albumin is unable to keep water from leaving the blood and entering the tissues. The tissues swell as the volume of blood is reduced.”
Source: Tom Brewer, obstetrician, about the importance of prenatal nutrition, emphasizing adequate protein (especially milk), calories and salt.

See also the lack of Carbon dioxide:
An important function of carbon dioxide is to regulate the circulation of positively charged ions, alkali metals, such as sodium and calcium. When too much calcium gets into a cell, it activates many enzymes, prevents muscles and nerve cells from relaxing, and eventually kills the cell. The constant formation of carbon dioxide in the cell allows the cell to remove calcium, along with the small amount of sodium that constantly enters the cell.
When there is a suitable level of sodium in the extracellular fluid, the continuous inward movement of sodium ions in the resting cell activates an enzyme, the sodium-potassium ATPase, causing the ATP breaks down into ADP and phosphate, which boosts fuel and oxygen consumption to maintain an adequate level of ATP. Increasing the sodium concentration increases the carbon dioxide production and the energy consumption of the cell. Sodium, by increasing the production of carbon dioxide, protects against the excitatory, toxic effects of intracellular calcium.

Note: optimum intake of sodium (according to taste, progressively): 3.7 gr (between 4-6 gr optimum).
But mind poor potassium intake (4700 mg), after all. Ca optimal at 840 mg. Mg at 450 mg.
hope it will help.
See kate Deering, James Dinicolantonio and Jason Fung (The salt Fix) if you want more scientific "explanations"

Interesting links (in French):
Comprendre le fonctionnement du sodium
Équilibre Sodium et Potassium – Compensation par l’organisme

Upping my salt has helped my edema greatly. Also more exercise. I used to overdo running, so I basically quit for a while. Edema started creeping back in. Yesterday I salted everything I ate, even a big bowl of watermelon, went for a slow, 5 mile jog. Slept 9 hours. No edema today!

 

[LucH]

Upping my salt has helped my edema greatly.

Fine. Thanks for "report" but don't forget to balance électrolytes +/ with potassium.

 

[Peatness]

I'm wondering about mold in food. Grapes, dried fruits, coffee? Cant seem to resolve leg edema. Moving doesn't seem to help that much. When I wake first thing in the morning there is no swelling - as the day progresses it appears and stays.