Tired of being sick and tired...

[flyboy9994]

Hello all

I've been lurking here for awhile and like many here, am coming from the dark place known as "low carb/paleo". Pretty much wrecked my metabolism with repeated attempts at LC/VLC.

Anyway, I actually found out about Ray Peat as somebody on one of the many paleo forums was bashing his diet so I just had to find out what kind of "quack" would recommend OJ, milk, sugar, honey etc. And no veggies? Double WTF?? Well, much to my surprise, I was instantly entranced in his writings, research etc. Then I found this forum and was immediately impressed with the caliber of members and the knowledge base here. Like many who first come here, I was very confused as to why there was no diet! Where's the food lists? The shopping lists? Where do I start? More reading...

OK, enough rambling. My personal history if anybody is interested. It's not pretty... 52 year male, morbidly obese. Need to lose 100 lbs and am getting pretty scared. I am a commercial pilot by trade and have to pass an annual physical so if I don't fix myself, I'll never make it to retirement. As a result, I went to the doc and expressed my concern so we ran an initial blood test. All the usual for an obese middle aged man: way high cholesterol with the ratios all out of whack, high triglycerides, high blood pressure and very low testosterone. Started treatment for low testosterone and that made me feel a whole lot better! I actually feel like exercising for the first time in a decade.

So it begins with Peat. I'm at the end of the road here folks! This has to be it. I just don't know what else to do. After much reading here, my plan is going to be a no starch, low fat version with emphasis on OJ, milk, eggs, shellfish, GF beef and lamb. I've been playing around on CronoMeter and find it a very useful tool. I'm going to try for 20/70/10 macro with Peat foods and see how that goes. Anyway, thanks for reading and I'll see you on the board. I'm going to need some help...

 

[answersfound]

You can look at Danny Roddy's organizing the panic. It sums everything up for 60 to 70 dollars in videos with shopping lists and supplements. And for another 60-70 u can get coaching.

 

[answersfound]

Hello all

I've been lurking here for awhile and like many here, am coming from the dark place known as "low carb/paleo". Pretty much wrecked my metabolism with repeated attempts at LC/VLC.

Anyway, I actually found out about Ray Peat as somebody on one of the many paleo forums was bashing his diet so I just had to find out what kind of "quack" would recommend OJ, milk, sugar, honey etc. And no veggies? Double WTF?? Well, much to my surprise, I was instantly entranced in his writings, research etc. Then I found this forum and was immediately impressed with the caliber of members and the knowledge base here. Like many who first come here, I was very confused as to why there was no diet! Where's the food lists? The shopping lists? Where do I start? More reading...

OK, enough rambling. My personal history if anybody is interested. It's not pretty... 52 year male, morbidly obese. Need to lose 100 lbs and am getting pretty scared. I am a commercial pilot by trade and have to pass an annual physical so if I don't fix myself, I'll never make it to retirement. As a result, I went to the doc and expressed my concern so we ran an initial blood test. All the usual for an obese middle aged man: way high cholesterol with the ratios all out of whack, high triglycerides, high blood pressure and very low testosterone. Started treatment for low testosterone and that made me feel a whole lot better! I actually feel like exercising for the first time in a decade.

So it begins with Peat. I'm at the end of the road here folks! This has to be it. I just don't know what else to do. After much reading here, my plan is going to be a no starch, low fat version with emphasis on OJ, milk, eggs, shellfish, GF beef and lamb. I've been playing around on CronoMeter and find it a very useful tool. I'm going to try for 20/70/10 macro with Peat foods and see how that goes. Anyway, thanks for reading and I'll see you on the board. I'm going to need some help...

Also try and get Cyproheptadine. It seems to be a godsend for many around here.

 

[flyboy9994]

Hey thanks for the response. I've already read everything I could find from Danny Roddy and it was all awesome. Thanks.

Also been researching Cyproheptadine. Need to do some more reading but it sounds promising. Thanks again.

 

[tara]

So it begins with Peat. I'm at the end of the road here folks! This has to be it. I just don't know what else to do. After much reading here, my plan is going to be a no starch, low fat version with emphasis on OJ, milk, eggs, shellfish, GF beef and lamb. I've been playing around on CronoMeter and find it a very useful tool. I'm going to try for 20/70/10 macro with Peat foods and see how that goes. Anyway, thanks for reading and I'll see you on the board. I'm going to need some help...

I'm guessing that's P:C:F?
Looks like you've got a good starting plan to try. Hope it helps.
It is true that cyproheptadine has been helpful for many. Be aware that it is sometimes used to stimulate increased appetite (it is sometimes used in the treatment of anorexia), and for some people this leads to weight gain. It doesn't have this effect for everyone, and I think there was a study about a sample how initially gained weight, then lost it, while on a consistent dose. There is some recent discussion on this, I think in a thread devoted to cyproheptadine. There was speculation IIRC that it could be weight gain from building lean tissue, ahead of fat loss following increased lean tissue. Just thought you might want to be aware of this aspect, so you can watch for it if you are have to pass a related test. Not saying you wouldn't find it helpful at some stage - you might.

Good luck

 

[flyboy9994]

Great Tara thanks.

Yes macros were for P:C:F

I'll definitely check out the thread you mentioned about cyproheptadine. My appetite definitely does NOT need stimulating but if it works in the long run, than I'm definitely up for trying it. Thanks for the info.

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

You sound pretty stressed out.
How many walks per day do you go on?
Do you get much sun?
Ever go to relax in a sauna/spa?
How many meals do you eat per day (if it is 3 or less, then you need more)?
How often aren't you eating because you're stressed about what kind of food it is?
Do you have any other people around to help motivate you?

 

[tara]

You sound pretty stressed out.
How many walks per day do you go on?
Do you get much sun?
Ever go to relax in a sauna/spa?
How many meals do you eat per day (if it is 3 or less, then you need more)?
How often aren't you eating because you're stressed about what kind of food it is?
Do you have any other people around to help motivate you?

Good ideas - yes to gentle walks outdoors or similar, lots of sunshine, several small meals may serve you better than a few bigger ones, doing pleasant things with other people, relaxing, keeping warm, ....

 

[SQu]

Coming from similar health background I'd just add - expect to take time to heal and possibly only to drop weight when much healing has happened, especially lowering inflammation. Also, to be aware you may not be digesting all your food even if you don't have digestive complaints, so aim for abundant minerals and vitamins. In my experience. And yes to no starch and low fat! Oh and while everyone's different, aspirin has been very helpful so maybe look into that.

 

[haidut]

Hello all

I've been lurking here for awhile and like many here, am coming from the dark place known as "low carb/paleo". Pretty much wrecked my metabolism with repeated attempts at LC/VLC.

Anyway, I actually found out about Ray Peat as somebody on one of the many paleo forums was bashing his diet so I just had to find out what kind of "quack" would recommend OJ, milk, sugar, honey etc. And no veggies? Double WTF?? Well, much to my surprise, I was instantly entranced in his writings, research etc. Then I found this forum and was immediately impressed with the caliber of members and the knowledge base here. Like many who first come here, I was very confused as to why there was no diet! Where's the food lists? The shopping lists? Where do I start? More reading...

OK, enough rambling. My personal history if anybody is interested. It's not pretty... 52 year male, morbidly obese. Need to lose 100 lbs and am getting pretty scared. I am a commercial pilot by trade and have to pass an annual physical so if I don't fix myself, I'll never make it to retirement. As a result, I went to the doc and expressed my concern so we ran an initial blood test. All the usual for an obese middle aged man: way high cholesterol with the ratios all out of whack, high triglycerides, high blood pressure and very low testosterone. Started treatment for low testosterone and that made me feel a whole lot better! I actually feel like exercising for the first time in a decade.

So it begins with Peat. I'm at the end of the road here folks! This has to be it. I just don't know what else to do. After much reading here, my plan is going to be a no starch, low fat version with emphasis on OJ, milk, eggs, shellfish, GF beef and lamb. I've been playing around on CronoMeter and find it a very useful tool. I'm going to try for 20/70/10 macro with Peat foods and see how that goes. Anyway, thanks for reading and I'll see you on the board. I'm going to need some help...

The biggest problem for somebody with a lot of extra weight is usually the massive amounts of estrogen their fat tissue synthesizes. So, if I were in your shoes I'd focus on bringing the weight down as much as possible but without starving. Since that sounds like something very hard to do, you may want to consider something like dinitrophenol (DNP) or high dose caffeine (800mg - 1,200mg in divided daily doses). In your condition the testosterone therapy is actually dangerous as a lot of that testosterone will aromatize into estrogen and further increase your tissue levels. Instead of testosterone therapy I think the safer approach for you would be high dose of progesterone combined with no more than 10mg DHEA daily. This will bring your estrogen down and also steer the DHEA into the pathway of increasing testosterone. You don't need a prescription for progesterone or DHEA, which makes it easier to implement this solution.
Finally, since estrogen elevates both serotonin and prolactin I'd ask your doctor to run a test for prolactin and maybe serotonin. If they are elevated then ask for an anti-porlactin drug and/or serotonin blocker. There are studies showing that lowering prolactin alone completely normalized people's metabolic health, increased testosterone and made them lose the excess weight. If this approach works for you it would be preferable as this way you would not have to take 10 drugs. The progesterone and DHEA combo you can take any time but make sure you let your doctor know about it.

 

[jaa]

Just want to point out that if you go the uncoupler route (DNP, caffeine, or thyroid), you might want to supplement potassium (cream of tartar). I'm just parroting what Andrew Kim wrote in his latest blog post.

"“Uncouplers” are usually seen as good and desirable for wight loss but they do so by disrupting the delicate balance in the respiratory proteins alluded to above. The classical uncoupler 2,4-dinitrophenol, an acidic aromatic compound, for instance, as an electron donating cardinal adsorbent disturbs the electronic balance of the respiratory proteins as to impair the delicate oscillatory nature of the respiratory proteins through which ATP is generated. In effect uncouplers favors the state in which the ATP generating enzyme becomes active, opposing the effect of ATP. And in the absence of potassium the continued exposure to uncouplers blocks respiration, leaving the cell in a dead, swollen state. Extra potassium is vital whenever uncouplers are involved. The swelling caused by uncouplers such as thyroid hormone, for instance, are almost immediately reversed by potassium (and ATP)."

http://www.andrewkimblog.com/2015/04/im ... d-low.html

 

[flyboy9994]

Wow... Excellent. Thanks so much for the great replies everyone.

Haidut, I will definitely consider trying this. I have already been researching progesterone and DHEA. Never heard of DNP so I'll start reading up on that. Caffeine? That's a no brainer. I already take some caffeine and do very well with it so I would be interested in experimenting with high dose. Should I stop testosterone immediately if I go the progesterone/DHEA route?

jaa: That makes perfect sense and I very much appreciate the potassium advice. Never thought of cream of tartar. Will definitely be implemented if I go the uncoupler route. Thanks again.

I think I'll start a progress thread so I can keep track of all this great info and maybe help others in the same situation. Thanks again.

 

[haidut]

Wow... Excellent. Thanks so much for the great replies everyone.

Haidut, I will definitely consider trying this. I have already been researching progesterone and DHEA. Never heard of DNP so I'll start reading up on that. Caffeine? That's a no brainer. I already take some caffeine and do very well with it so I would be interested in experimenting with high dose. Should I stop testosterone immediately if I go the progesterone/DHEA route?

jaa: That makes perfect sense and I very much appreciate the potassium advice. Never thought of cream of tartar. Will definitely be implemented if I go the uncoupler route. Thanks again.

I think I'll start a progress thread so I can keep track of all this great info and maybe help others in the same situation. Thanks again.

Don't stop anything unless you consult with your doctor. Instead, remind your doctor that testosterone converts into estrogen quite easily and that aromatase is highly upregulated in people with extra weight (fat). So, adding more estrogen to the organism will make you store even more fat. Also, remind him that in the USA there are class action lawsuits going on accusing doctors of indiscriminately prescribing testosterone replacement leading to strokes and heat attacks, undoubtedly caused to a large degree by the extra estrogen created from testosterone through aromatization.
If the doctor insists on continuing with the testosterone then at least ask him to allow progesterone as an aromatase inhibitor and anti-estrogen.

 

[flyboy9994]

Sounds good Haidut. My doctor actually appreciates the fact that I do a lot of my own research and is pretty open to suggestion. Will run everything by him first for sure. Thanks again for giving me some direction.