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Hi All!

Heather

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
13
Glad to be here!

Over a year ago I started Paleo, due to ongoing issues with my thyroid and adrenals. Haha! Wrong move! Well, Paleo did help me discover my autoimmune response to both gluten and casein. So, that was great.

However, so many of Paleo people (especially over at PaleoHacks) are also hardcore low-carbers, and it took many months for me to realize that going low-carb is very anti-thyroid. So, I added in "safe starches" and some sugars, while trying to advocate against low-carb and warn other people with thyroid issues (in other words, a great many people!) of the dangers involved with low-carb. I was still basically Paleo, though.

Anyway, Ray Peat kept coming up as a topic on the boards, as well as Danny Roddy, and that really piqued my interest, as they specifically talk about thyroid and energy issues. So, I bought Roddy's quick start guide, found this board, and have been trying out the ideas for the past 2 months or so.

Sadly, I still can't seem to tolerate milk, so that has made it more difficult for me to follow the "diet." I'm taking calcium and trying to get enough protein from other sources. It's not great, and I feel I would be doing better if I could drink milk or even eat cheese.

I'm still struggling with getting my energy levels up. I take Armour thyroid, and my free t3 and free t4 have been checked and they are at optimal levels, but I still feel fairly terrible. I've tried pregnenolone, but that didn't help much and did give me terrible back acne. So, now I'm trying out progest-e. Maybe that is the missing element. I just started yesterday, so we will have to see how it goes. My impression is that you can just take as much of it as you want until you feel good. It's a little scary to be messing around with hormones, but ya know, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired!

Anyway, it's great that there is a forum with some experienced people to help out the little newbies, and I hope eventually to be able to provide support as well!
 

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Welcome, Heather!

Yes...Paleo...Primal...
I've often wished we could find out how many posters here
were low-carbers of some stripe or degree.
I certainly was,
and I think one reason I became hypothyroid
and had other metabolism problems
was because I followed the low-carbing quite strictly.

On the milk thing:
Danny Roddy had some interesting articles a while back
about people with milk difficulties.
I didn't read real closely because I don't have those issues,
but as I recall his main point was that those milk issues were overcome-able,
by gradually building up the intake,
by trying different kinds--raw, homogenized, non-homogenized, ulta-pasteurized, etc.
You might search for those Roddy articles and see what you think.
They might be a little harder to find now because his website change formats recently.

On thyroid levels:
I too am hypothyroid.
My doctors always adjusted my dosage
to what they said were optimal levels.
But my symptoms continued.
Peat does not place a lot of importance on typical lab tests used today to monitor/diagnose thyroid.
Instead, he emphasizes the older tests
like temperature and pulse rate and the Achilles Tendon Reflex Test
(search around here--there's a thread on it).
These don't require a doctor.
Not too long ago I started adjusting my Armour levels upward
based upon that sort of self-testing
and without my doctor's input.
So far, I'm feeling some better and those indicators (pulse, temp, etc)
are coming up into Peat-preferred ranges.

Anyhow...welcome.
 

Heather

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
13
Hi Narouz,

Thanks for the link. The article is interesting, and I keep hoping that eventually I will tolerate milk. I've been strict no casein for a year, and recently tried goat milk kefir as a test (goat milk kefir is probably the most inoffensive dairy you can ingest), and it didn't work so well. It definitely made my arthritis flair up again (one of my autoimmune issues). So, rats! But, hope springs eternal and eventually I will try again. I'm looking into enzymes that might help to fully break down the casein.

I've thought about dosing the NDT according to symptoms, but I worry about possible heart damage from over-medication. What do you think about that risk?

I think the problem is that once you have become truly ill from years of stress, modern diet, and pollution, there can be so many factors that can cause the same symptoms (exhaustion, low body temp, anxiety, etc...). They also often interact with one another, so although you may get one thing straightened out, you may not actually get relief until other things are back on track as well.
 

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Heather said:
Hi Narouz,

Thanks for the link. The article is interesting, and I keep hoping that eventually I will tolerate milk. I've been strict no casein for a year, and recently tried goat milk kefir as a test (goat milk kefir is probably the most inoffensive dairy you can ingest), and it didn't work so well. It definitely made my arthritis flair up again (one of my autoimmune issues). So, rats! But, hope springs eternal and eventually I will try again. I'm looking into enzymes that might help to fully break down the casein.

I've thought about dosing the NDT according to symptoms, but I worry about possible heart damage from over-medication. What do you think about that risk?

I think the problem is that once you have become truly ill from years of stress, modern diet, and pollution, there can be so many factors that can cause the same symptoms (exhaustion, low body temp, anxiety, etc...). They also often interact with one another, so although you may get one thing straightened out, you may not actually get relief until other things are back on track as well.

Heather, with the thyroid dosage,
I would try to be disciplined about checking your temps and pulse
several times per day,
keeping a chart,
and getting a good feel for where you're at in that respect.

If you're not getting up to 98.6 and above and staying there most of the day,
then I would bump my thyroid up a little bit
and watch for changes over a couple of weeks,
until you get there.

This is assuming you've laid a foundation of the right Peat foods first.
I think (hard to know about these things, so many variables in life, etc)
that in my case
I needed a little time on a correct Peat diet
before I could see results from upping my thyroid dosage.
In other words,
if someone is eating a Paleo/low-carb, high PUFA, etc diet,
adding more thyroid might not help--the body couldn't use it properly.

Some other things to explore are different brands of thyroid.
I thought until just recently that Peat's favorite thyroid was a NDT, but No:
he like CynoPlus.
So you might try that (I am).
And then also: Peat says that some people do best on a thyroid supplement
which contains T3:T4 ratio more like human thyroid, which is about 1:3.
Most supplements, including the one's we've mentioned, are more like 1:4.
For those people
Peat recommends supplementing one's combo T3&T4 pills
with another, separate T3 only pill,
taken in very small doses a few times throughout the day.
Hunt around on here and you will find all the in's and out's of that sort of stuff....
 

Ray-Z

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
321
Welcome to the forum, Heather. :welcome

Low-carb paleo was a complete train wreck for me. I hope you'll recover quickly. Sugar, salt, and thyroid have been very good to me. Cutting back on workouts (especially cardio!) and drinking much, much less water have also helped a lot.

I, too, have problems with every conceivable type of milk. Definitely makes Peating trickier, but not impossible. Hoping to return to the wonderful world of dairy at some point.

Some of the wise veterans around here advise people to take pregnenolone with a tablespoon or two of sugar to avoid adverse reactions. You might experiment and see if the sugar helps you avoid problems with acne when you take pregnenolone.
 

Heather

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
13
@Ray-Z Thanks for the pregnenolone tip! I'll give it a try after I figure out the progesterone stuff.

Luckily, I figured out very quickly that low-carb is not good for thyroid, so I didn't do much damage with Paleo. My thyroid issues started long before that, unfortunately, and are much more stubborn.

@narouz Thanks for the link! I wish I were lactose intolerant, cuz it's much easier to solve than casein intolerance, plus you can eat cheese! Oh well, who knows, my gut could heal enough eventually and my immune system calm down enough that it will tolerate the casein, and stop attacking itself.
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
12,296
Location
USA
Hi Heather! :welcome
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
12,296
Location
USA
Heather, dont give up on the milk. I use to not be able to tolerate it. Then Ann suggested that I make my own cheese, she says for most people its the whey that they cannot handle. I know you said its casein, but maybe its worth a shot. So anways, I did cheese for a little over a month, then, I tried milk on a whim and was totally OK with it.
 

kiran

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
1,054
Heather said:
Hi Narouz,

Thanks for the link. The article is interesting, and I keep hoping that eventually I will tolerate milk. I've been strict no casein for a year, and recently tried goat milk kefir as a test (goat milk kefir is probably the most inoffensive dairy you can ingest), and it didn't work so well. It definitely made my arthritis flair up again (one of my autoimmune issues). So, rats! But, hope springs eternal and eventually I will try again. I'm looking into enzymes that might help to fully break down the casein.

Heather, FWIW, I just want to point out that I can't tolerate goat milk, but I can tolerate 1% cows milk just fine. So it might be worth trying every so often.
 

Heather

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
13
@kiran -- oh now, that's interesting! It's very unusual to tolerate A1 casein, but not A2 casein. Funnily enough that gives me some hope, because clearly these intolerances can be idiosyncratic and can shift.

@Charlie -- well, I would very dearly like to be able to have dairy of any kind, so I'm up for experimenting now and then. Unfortunately, the consequences are big when I ingest casein (arthritis, anxiety, mental fog), so I'm always scared to try. However, there is always the chance that the intolerance will lessen, and being able to have dairy would make my life significantly easier. Actually, I'm hoping that using progest-e will improve things.

Anyway, when I do a dairy test and I have success I will be sure to let everyone know! I know there are a few others here with dairy problems, and it's always encouraging to hear success stories.
 

narouz

Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2012
Messages
4,429
Heather: just a stray bit, maybe pertinent for you:

"In Gotthoffer's survey, one general area of health prescription clearly comes to the fore, and that is digestion. Most notably, he refers to over 30 years of research on gelatin's ability to improve the digestion of milk. In the early 1900s gelatin was therefore recommended as an ingredient in infant formula, to decrease allergic reactions, colic and respiratory ailments."

http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMarch2005/broth0205.htm
 

Ray-Z

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
321
narouz said:
Heather: just a stray bit, maybe pertinent for you:

"In Gotthoffer's survey, one general area of health prescription clearly comes to the fore, and that is digestion. Most notably, he refers to over 30 years of research on gelatin's ability to improve the digestion of milk. In the early 1900s gelatin was therefore recommended as an ingredient in infant formula, to decrease allergic reactions, colic and respiratory ailments."

http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMarch2005/broth0205.htm

Great find, Narouz.
 

gretchen

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Messages
816
Hi Heather, I was semi-paleo/primal for a decade. I ate low carb throughout the 2000s, and also avoided dairy most of the time. My main foods were eggs, salmon, green vegetables, apples, green tea and olive oil. A year and a half in to upping the salmon intake I stopped sleeping and went on the bcp as "early peri" (i was 33) HRT....... Fast forward to late 2000s, I started having a weekly slice of pizza and drinking a lot of wine. Though I didn't gain that much scale weight, my body composition seemed to shift, but the main thing was I was sooooo tired all the time I could barely get out of bed. I also developed a swollen blackish-blue type growth in my neck area.

I didn't drink milk for 20 years and was on/off cultured products for a lot of years. Milk is now my favorite food; I really think it's helped me lose some weight especially in my waist/hips/thighs. I'm not sure what else I can offer on lactose intolerance except that I was convinced I have it and don't.

I've had acne also off and on for 20 years; took 2 courses of Accutane as a teen and also as I mentioned used the bcp for a bunch of years for hormonal imbalances caused probably by dieting. For whatever reason, I don't break out any more. I'm almost positive chronic carb restriction is what caused it.

Progesterone seems to help a lot & also the daily carrot. Coffee I've read helps drive progesterone in to the tissues. At some point you may also want to do lab tests. Cheers & hope you feel better.
 
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