First Post, Thanks for Having Me!

[IzumiCurtis]

Hi Everyone!

I'm a long time lurker on this and the other Ray Peat forum, but this is my first post here. Thanks for having me!

If you don't mind, I'd like to give you a little bit of my background. I'll also be posting shortly in the "Ask for Help" section since I could use a little help interpreting my labs.

I've been eating Peatish off and on for maybe 6 months (I'll post details in Ask for Help). When I'm stricter about it, I feel better but I've been gaining weight like crazy.

I've been smallish all my life (typically 5'4" 109lb female, 29 yrs old) but I've also had a fairly wide waistline for my other measurements (right now I'm at something like 32.5 29, 35.5). For as long as I can remember I've had a pouch of fat below my bellybutton. It's mostly centralized on the front of my abdomen, not all the way around my waistline like a typical muffin top. Yesterday I was up to 118.2 lbs. This is the most I've ever weighed in my life.

I've had crazy temp ranges while Peating from 97.0 to 99.5 in the same week - but that's not all basal temp. Higher temps are usually at night a few hours before bed. Have not been checking resting heart rate as regularly as I should but it's usually from 62-68 BPM. Non-peating temps top out around 98.5 or so, but I wasn't checking my temps much before Peating.

I've had what could be hypo symptoms for as long as I can remember. Here's a partial list:

• Cold extremities which gets worse under stress
• cyclical thinning of hair
• brain fog
• lack of motivation
• needing a ton of sleep to feel rested (10-12 hrs) and still feeling poor when I wake up
• dry skin
• dandruff
• puffiness under eyes
• feeling inflamed all the time
• achy creaky joints
• high cholesterol
• bumps (keritosis?) and very dry thickened, somewhat hyperpigmented skin on elbows and bottom of buttocks (TMI? sorry if it is)
• extremely tight muscles especially in neck and shoulders (I thought some of my muscles in the upper trapezius area were bones they're so hard) I get super bad tension headaches which could be a result of this muscle tightness.
• occasional feeling of tightness in throat, like my tongue or throat is swollen - it's possible to breath but not comfortable

I realize these symptoms can be caused by numerous problems. I'm looking into thyroid as a first possibility. If anyone recognizes this list as being typically caused by something else (overactive adrenals? too much cortisol? estrogen dominance? pituitary problem?) please let me know.

I haven't been tested for anything until now. Just had my first thyroid blood work done, and surprisingly it looks great ( I think?):

• TSH- 1.23 (range= 0.35-4.94 iIU/mL)
• free T3 - 3.16 (range= 1.71-3.71 pg/mL)
• total T3 - 119 (range= 58-159 ng/dL)
• free T4 - 1.18 (range= 0.70 - 1.48 ng/dL)
• total T4 - 8.3 (range= 4.87 - 11.72 ug/dL)
• parathyroid - 18 (range= 15- 65 pg/mL)

Didn't have reverse T3 checked, and didn't have any antibodies for Hashis checked. I'll post these results with some others like choesterol and Vit D in the Ask for Help section.

My Dr is treating based on symptoms instead of the #s, and I just started on 1/4 grain of Armour yesterday.

A little more background:

Found out I was gluten intolerant (never tested for celiac) about 5 years ago and have been strictly gluten free for about 4 years. I could be better about cross contamination in restaurants, but I don't typically get GI issues from cross contamination so I've let it slide until now.

Tried paleo a few ago, and felt fantastic on it... until eventually it felt like I was intolerant to everything I ate at which point I stopped. PMS was one of the biggest improvements on Paleo (feeling Euphoric instead of weepy) and that has gotten much worse since starting higher carb/Peat style eating. Maybe I'm eating too many starches. Now PMS is an emotional roller coaster which results in me crying at the drop of a hat. I would be up for a paleo-ish/primal diet again if Armour means I don't have to do super low carb, and if I don't grow intolerant to, like, every food.

Even after months of low carb (+/- 30 grams a day) and daily exercise, I still had fat on my lower belly. It was reduced than compared to pre low-carb, but I was miserable trying to get to that state. Could excess cortisol may be at play here?

Thought I was lactose intolerant but thanks to some recs on this forum I've been able to add milk back in and can actually drink glasses of milk now. So a very big thank you to everyone who posted about their lactose strategies!

This is longer than I had hoped. Sorry about that. Thank you for your time if you decide to read this monster! And TIA for any advice you might have.

 

[Blossom]

IzumiCurtis! I'm happy you found the forum and thanks for sharing your success with tolerating milk!

 

[aguilaroja]

Welcome to the forum.

As you have read on the forum, restorative factors (progesterone, thyroid, red light, salt, etc.) tend to work "together", and factors of decline do as well.

You might browse Dr. Peat's web site and books (in this case, especially the one called "From PMS to Menopause". Review symptoms about estrogen excess and its relief by boosting the progesterone/estrogen ratio. See if in addition to PMS, there are other clues about high estrogen states, such as menstrual cramping/heavy bleeding/clots, fibrocystic breast/ovaries, irregular periods, etc.

See, for instance:

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/es ... tress.shtm

 

[IzumiCurtis]

Thanks for the advise :) I've been reading Peat's work for a while now, and I think I've read the PMS to Menopause article, but I will re-read it soon. Thank you!

I do not know if I have polycystic or fibrocystic ovaries but my Dr would like me to have an ultrasound to see if I have a cyst on one (I get ovulation pain but only on one side so she suspects I may have a cyst there).

I actually alternate between very light periods to "normal" ones, mostly without major cramping but sometimes I do cramp badly.

I'm reluctant to make very many changes all at once as I just started on Armour and if I improve I want to know what is causing the improvement. I do have some progest-e. I will give that a go if my PMS symptoms do not improve after a month or two on thyroid.

I was taking salt for my tight muscles and relief of tension headaches - 1/4 tsp at a time two or three times a day. This in conjunction with Aspirin really seemed to help with the tension. Unfortunately, after a particularly bad bout of PMS last month, the salt did not work for my tension and the Aspirin only dulled the pain, so I stopped taking salt thinking maybe I was getting a placebo effect before. I do still liberally salt my food.

I guess at this point I'm curious about two major things:

One- Is it actually possible that I'm hypothyroid, even with the numbers I posted above? Is there anyone else here who started out with very normal numbers and experienced significant long term improvement on t3+t4 supplementation?

Two- With the blood work and pattern of symptoms I've listed above, does anyone recognize telltale signs of a specific kind of degeneration/syndrome/disease/deficiency/etc? Just wondering if anyone is able to recognize a pattern of symptoms/blood work that's frequently seen together in a specific ailment. I know you're not Dr's, but many of the people on this forum seem very well versed in hormonal imbalance and degenerative disease.

 

[Blossom]

This article may be informative if you have never read it: Ray Peat PhD on Thyroid, temperature, pulse and TSH, and you can read it by going to http://www.functionalps.com. I thought of you when I skimmed over it because it seems to address some of your concerns. Sorry I don't personally have more input but I did want to mention that article.

 

[Dan W]

Welcome, IzumiCurtis. Here's a direct link to the article Blossom mentioned.

Regarding the tight neck/shoulder muscles, I have similar issues and have been having good luck with frequent paper-bag-breathing to boost CO2 (though I'm fuzzy on why it helps). And who knows, it might help some of your other symptoms.

 

[aguilaroja]

I'm reluctant to make very many changes all at once as I just started on Armour and if I improve I want to know what is causing the improvement...
One- Is it actually possible that I'm hypothyroid, even with the numbers I posted above? Is there anyone else here who started out with very normal numbers and experienced significant long term improvement on t3+t4 supplementation?

Two- With the blood work and pattern of symptoms I've listed above, does anyone recognize telltale signs of a specific kind of degeneration/syndrome/disease/deficiency/etc? Just wondering if anyone is able to recognize a pattern of symptoms/blood work that's frequently seen together in a specific ailment. I know you're not Dr's, but many of the people on this forum seem very well versed in hormonal imbalance and degenerative disease.

It is a very sound strategy to do one thing at a time, when possible, to assess what is making a difference. One quarter of a grain is a very low dose of supplement. You might discuss with your provider about how to assess the pace of adjusting increments. For historical perspective, 60 years ago Broda Barnes, MD frequently started people at 2 grains of thyroid daily. The rate of advancing the amount will figure into testing the hypothesis of low thyroid function.

http://www.nature-throid.com/images/RLC ... nChart.pdf

WADR, one reason that progesterone function was mentioned was that health care professionals sometimes go very slowly with thyroid, if they go at all. Augmenting another factor that sufferer can access directly gives another avenue for relief.

One-Yes, I had "normal" numbers for decades, and was assured by award-winning experts that things were normal. I had rapid relief with thyroid supplementation. The relief has lasted for years. I directly know dozens of people with similar stories.

Two-Most of the symptoms are common in low thyroid function, and all have been observed by people with established hypothyroidism. These symptoms are usually regarded by health care professionals as "non-specific".

By usual medical reasoning, "non-specific" symptoms do not point to one "clear" disease. When the list of "non-specific" symptoms gets long, "patients" get lumped into categories like depression, stress, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, and other names. In another field, the various names might be called waste-basket terminology. By usual classifications, there are tens or hundreds of millions of people in these "categories" on every populated continent.

In the face of the lack of understanding about these issues suffered by hundreds of millions or more, thousands of profiteering and/or misguided zealots are hawking meager, useless, or dangerous "remedies". Dr. Peat's wisdom in perceiving general patterns of decline and restoration are heeded by a few. He has accessible, practical suggestions for improvement.

 

[IzumiCurtis]

Thank you Blossom!

I believe I've skimmed this one before, but I'm reading it more carefully now. This stood out (emphasis mine):

"Aging, infection, trauma, prolonged cortisol excess, somatostatin, dopamine or L-dopa, adrenaline (sometimes; Mannisto, et al., 1979), amphetamine, caffeine and fever can lower TSH, apart from the effect of feedback by the thyroid hormones, creating a situation in which TSH can appear normal or low, at the same time that there is a real hypothyroidism."

I was supposed to be fasting before the blood was drawn, but I forgot and had a cup of coffee with a little milk that morning. I drink one or two cups of coffee every day. Could that make my TSH look lower?

As for T3 and T4...

"Because the actions of T3 can be inhibited by many factors, including polyunsaturated fatty acids, reverse T3, and excess thyroxine, the absolute level of T3 can’t be used by itself for diagnosis. “Free T3” or “free T4” is a laboratory concept, and the biological activity of T3 doesn’t necessarily correspond to its “freedom” in the test. T3 bound to its transport proteins can be demonstrated to enter cells, mitochondria, and nuclei. Transthyretin, which carries both vitamin A and thyroid hormones, is sharply decreased by stress, and should probably be regularly measured as part of the thyroid examination."

I didn't think it was possible to test for transport of thyroid hormones into the cells. I guess this still wouldn't be a direct measure of that, but I will ask my Dr to add this test to the list next time.

"Administering a thyroid supplement, blood cholesterol came down to normal exactly as the basal metabolic rate came up to the normal rate. " and "Thyroid tends to lower cholesterol by converting it into pregnenolone and other steroids..."

My Dr was very concerned about my cholesterol. She said it was probably due to thyroid function, but wanted me to take fish oil capsules and red yeast rice to help to lower it. I'm not taking the fish oil, and have taken the red yeast rice once. I'm very reluctant to take a statins, even if they are "natural". I'll try to tell her I want to see how far we can get it down with just the thyroid and reducing starches and some fat in my diet.

I'm trying not to be too obsessed with the #s. I understand that it's possible to get better on thyroid sups even when labs aren't out of range. Being new to this I was hoping for immediate evidence that I was choosing the right path by trying to supplement with thyroid. With as cruddy as I feel I thought the labs would show some clearer evidence of hypo. Thankfully Dr. is treating based on symptoms and has me tracking basal temps for 4 weeks - and I'm taking note of RHR as well.

Thank you for pointing me to this article, it's been very reassuring.

 

[IzumiCurtis]

WADR, one reason that progesterone function was mentioned was that health care professionals sometimes go very slowly with thyroid, if they go at all. Augmenting another factor that sufferer can access directly gives another avenue for relief.

One-Yes, I had "normal" numbers for decades, and was assured by award-winning experts that things were normal. I had rapid relief with thyroid supplementation. The relief has lasted for years. I directly know dozens of people with similar stories.

Two-Most of the symptoms are common in low thyroid function, and all have been observed by people with established hypothyroidism. These symptoms are usually regarded by health care professionals as "non-specific".

Thank you so much for your response. I think my dr wants to start low and slow but will increase dose as necessary to alleviate symptoms, although she hasn't told me what her schedule for increase will be. I'll keep the progesterone in mind if it feels like things aren't improving at a sufficient rate. I'm seeing very slight improvement with 1/4 grain and am hopeful that an increase in dose will help further. I will ask what her plan for increase is and see if she's willing to speed it up a little.

And thank you so very much for sharing your experience. It's very reassuring to hear someone with normal numbers being helped by supplementation.

I've read that Peat believes that many syndromes and diseases such as fibromyalgia are really a result of low thyroid. I would feel so helpless if I had a diagnosis of one of these syndromes with no known treatment or cause and a prognosis of lifelong pain. I'm very glad my Dr. recognizes these "non-specific" symptoms as potentially being caused by low thyroid, and she's happy to try thyroid with me, and I'm very hopeful that symptoms improve. Thank you for confirming that my symptoms do fit with low thyroid function (or absorption?).

Thank you all so much for your responses. They have helped ease my mind, and I feel much more confidant that I'm doing the right thing.

 

[Blossom]

I'm happy you enjoyed the article! I always like to pass along Peat information that may help others. I was also thrilled to hear you decided not to use the fish oil supplements. Thanks for sharing and keep us posted!

 

[charlie]

IzumiCurtis

 

[LucyL]

Hi IzumiCurtis

I have the same problems with my neck/shoulders. The chiropractor says the muscles are like ropes. Unfortunately I haven't been able to make much headway on improving them. I do bag breathing 2-3 times a day, exercises, massages once a month.... chiropractic adjustments help when it gets bad, but it's not preventative. I'm still trying to sort that one out

My thyroid numbers were "normal" too, so I use just a glandular. My TSH was about where yours is, and Peat thinks below one is the best spot for TSH so we will see if it gets there. It was very helpful in relieving extreme exhaustion I experienced after one summer of too much exercise in too much heat for too long. And it has also been helpful in regulating my cycle, stabilizing mood and generally feeling warmer.

How high is your cholesterol that your doc is concerned at 29? I'm sorry if you did post the numbers, I didn't see them.

 

[IzumiCurtis]

@LucyL - Good luck with your tension! I know it can be really tough to live with this kind of tension all the time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the Armour will help with this. I'll keep you posted if things look like they're improving. My doctor didn't say Thyroid would help, but she did suggest "dry needling" as a treatment for sever muscle tension. I might give it a shot if it doesn't get better.

Total cholesterol is 257 mg/dl
Triglycerides - 189 mg/dl
Total LDL - 155 mg/dl
Total HDL - 55 mg/dl
LDL-P (LDL Particle Concentration)- 1589 nmol/L

I've got some other measures of cholesterol if you're interested. I posted more of my lab results in the "Ask for Help" section.

I'm thinking of asking my Doc for a test for cortisol , reverse T3 (to see if there are absorption problems?), and for thyroid antibodies to rule out Hashi's. Do these things sound reasonable?