Thoughts On 5ar And Post Finasteride Syndrome

[PurpleHeart]

I stopped finasteride 2 years ago.

My penis is now a dark rubbery meat, and I can't feel touching myself, or from someone else. My penis is essentially useless, and I don't know what sexual pleasure feels like anymore, only from memory.

No amount of anti-anxiety medication will change that.

I am very sorry this happened to you and i sincerely hope you can get it reversed as soon as possible.

No one should accept living like that there is always something new you can try don't lose hope we are all here to help you and search along with you for ways to reverse that condition that plagues so many males.

Maybe it would be a good idea to look into things that reverse atrophy of the pudendal nerve.

Also if plasma dht levels are normal after stopping finasteride but side effects remain maybe you can do some research on how to increase brain 5-ar levels.

Another thing you can look into is increasing androgen receptor density and function. Anabolic men is a site that specializes on male health and they are peaty too check them out if you want there is some good information on their website.

What are the things that you tried so far to reverse it?

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

I am just saying that since no supplement seems to work it's definitely not a bad idea to look into behavioral therapy etc.

Maybe people can reverse some symptoms or at least get some relief from that also reducing stress mentally is not a bad idea for anyone.

Sadly nothing works permanently yet but I have had a lot of success with things that increase GABA.

 

[ShotTrue]

How do you improve fibrosis locally?

I don't know if it's fibrosis. It's thick dark and dry "scaly" skin on the entire shaft.

Moisturizer improves the dryness temporarily, but does nothing for sensation.

Locally? With a dermastamp or massage. Personally I prefer systemically, by using magnesium, fibrosis destroying enzymes eaten, and adequate progesterone

 

[broozer]

@Goobz Yes. So maybe boosting 5 alpha reductase activity over all should be the focus. Since it creates DHT, allopregnenolone, androsterone and all the other beneficial metabolites.

Amen brah! maybe this extensive list gives someone a clue. my take on it is: doing things like overnight fasting, sprinting or not ejaculating is more powerful than taking supplement X.
46 ways to increase DHT (2018 update)

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

Amen brah! maybe this extensive list gives someone a clue. my take on it is: doing things like overnight fasting, sprinting or not ejaculating is more powerful than taking supplement X.
46 ways to increase DHT (2018 update)

Yes most of those are much better long term options

 

[bk_]

I think this is it. Finasteride messes up the activity of 5ar in the nervous system, but 5ar is only necessary when you don't have enough energy to produce progesterone to counteract estrogen. 5ar allows you to produce powerful estrogen antagonists with less metabolic energy, but at the cost of hair loss. Since hair loss sufferers are by definition metabolically compromised and producing less progesterone, they are hit hard with PFS, and the ones in the worst metabolic health who were the most reliant on 5ar-derived neurosteroids get hit the hardest. So that means fixing PFS means restoring energy production to the level that you are able to produce enough progesterone to counteract estrogen without needing 5ar, via thyroid, coffee, PUFA depletion, red light, CO2, etc.

In a sense, it's kind of a blessing in disguise, because fixing PFS means operating at a much higher level of mental functioning than before, because you would be running on progesterone instead of 5ar derivatives.

There’s also evidence of epigenetic changes as well that need to be reversed (see pubmed). This can be accomplished by reduction in methionine, therapeutic usage glycine/taurine, and CO2/high altitude.

I also believe that progesterone itself has therapeutic usage since it acts on the same progesterone mechanisms of the cells that finasteride did but (correct me if I’m wrong) promotes production of the neurosteroids that finasteride inhibited. If I remember correct Ray believes that Progesterone therapy promotes endogenous production of progesterone along with restoring metabolic function.

 

[thorus2000]

There’s also evidence of epigenetic changes as well that need to be reversed (see pubmed). This can be accomplished by reduction in methionine, therapeutic usage glycine/taurine, and CO2/high altitude.

I also believe that progesterone itself has therapeutic usage since it acts on the same progesterone mechanisms of the cells that finasteride did but (correct me if I’m wrong) promotes production of the neurosteroids that finasteride inhibited. If I remember correct Ray believes that Progesterone therapy promotes endogenous production of progesterone along with restoring metabolic function.

What amounts of progesterone are you thinking of?

 

[bk_]

What amounts of progesterone are you thinking of?

I definitely respond to as little as 3mg a day for a couple of days than take at least week long break. While having many positive mental, anti-inflammatory and energy affects the progesterone itself lowers libido. Days after ceasing libido comes back stronger.

 

[nbznj]

the solution to this could very much be - yet again - the massively underrated HCG

Enhanced stimulation of 5 alpha-reductase activity in cultured Leydig cell precursors by human chorionic gonadotropin. - PubMed - NCBI
Regulation of 5 alpha-reductase activity in cultured immature leydig cells by human chorionic gonadotropin. - PubMed - NCBI

LH/hCG directly stimulated 5 alpha-reductase activity

Granted, it also increases aromatase activity, but I've seldom seen anyone report excessive metabolism of Testosterone when sticking to 1000iu per week at most. Took about 2 weeks to get my Testosterone back up to the upper half of normal, free T is a nice 15 pg/ml. About 2 months in and my voice is nice and deep anew, which was a weird side effect from 5ar use (the softer higher pitched voice). Now I sound like Ben Greenfield again. Plus estradiol is in such small quantities in men's bodies and is so essential at every level, a small rise isn't a concern like xenoestrogens are. My E2 went from the bottom to the top of the range and it's a night and day difference. DHT levels are super uncommon to test where I live unfortunately but I suppose they've been mirroring the increase in E2.

The cure to baldness is stressing less, lowering inflammation through the diet, and red light

 

[MCurtone]

There’s also evidence of epigenetic changes as well that need to be reversed (see pubmed). This can be accomplished by reduction in methionine, therapeutic usage glycine/taurine, and CO2/high altitude.

I also believe that progesterone itself has therapeutic usage since it acts on the same progesterone mechanisms of the cells that finasteride did but (correct me if I’m wrong) promotes production of the neurosteroids that finasteride inhibited. If I remember correct Ray believes that Progesterone therapy promotes endogenous production of progesterone along with restoring metabolic function.

I think you may be onto something here, especially with the glycine/taurine combo from what I'm reading up on.

I too have PFS but on occasion I have had days where I feel 100% cured. On those days, I am follow a very anti-peat routine. What's given me great results are following an almost 100% raw carnivore diet, focusing heavily on muscle meat, organs and beef fat. No carbs. I would sometimes get glucose via gluconeogenesis. But the days I felt amazing, were when I would take 10-15g glycine right before bed. It would interfere with my sleep but there were 2 days where I felt absolutely perfect the next day. Absolute blissful emotions and mental clarity. I remember talking to my mother on the phone and being so present and being able to feel things again, it was incredible. Libido hasn't really been an issue, but it increased. I've always been the cognitive sufferer of PFS.

In a nutshell what has worked for me (but not completely cured):

Carnivore diet - zero carb - organ meats - muscle meats - beef fat - salt
Removing dairy - triggers intense brain fog and irritability - WAS NOT ALLERGIC/SENSITIVE BEFORE PFS. VERY STRANGE.
GHB - Took it a couple times to knock myself to sleep - Immediately noticed my stress response has improved ever since - No longer brain fogged after a stressful event/fight
Raw Honey - I indulge in it sometimes but would say that zerocarb is more beneficial for me.

 

[inurendotoxin]

I definitely respond to as little as 3mg a day for a couple of days than take at least week long break. While having many positive mental, anti-inflammatory and energy affects the progesterone itself lowers libido. Days after ceasing libido comes back stronger.

I could be missing something obvious but what about supplenting Pregnenolone instead? Or Thyroid?

I always get estro dominance from Progesterone, even small doses.

I'm sure Ray has said going higher up the chain = less risky for males since liver can discern the right dose from the raw materials (or something to that order).

 

[bk_]

I could be missing something obvious but what about supplenting Pregnenolone instead? Or Thyroid?

I always get estro dominance from Progesterone, even small doses.

I'm sure Ray has said going higher up the chain = less risky for males since liver can discern the right dose from the raw materials (or something to that order).

I do pregnenolone and thyroid for the most part. When I take progesterone I drop pregnenolone but continue with thyroid of course.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

the solution to this could very much be - yet again - the massively underrated HCG

Enhanced stimulation of 5 alpha-reductase activity in cultured Leydig cell precursors by human chorionic gonadotropin. - PubMed - NCBI
Regulation of 5 alpha-reductase activity in cultured immature leydig cells by human chorionic gonadotropin. - PubMed - NCBI



Granted, it also increases aromatase activity, but I've seldom seen anyone report excessive metabolism of Testosterone when sticking to 1000iu per week at most. Took about 2 weeks to get my Testosterone back up to the upper half of normal, free T is a nice 15 pg/ml. About 2 months in and my voice is nice and deep anew, which was a weird side effect from 5ar use (the softer higher pitched voice). Now I sound like Ben Greenfield again. Plus estradiol is in such small quantities in men's bodies and is so essential at every level, a small rise isn't a concern like xenoestrogens are. My E2 went from the bottom to the top of the range and it's a night and day difference. DHT levels are super uncommon to test where I live unfortunately but I suppose they've been mirroring the increase in E2.

The cure to baldness is stressing less, lowering inflammation through the diet, and red light

Did these HCG benefits continue after you got off of it?

 

[thorus2000]

Locally? With a dermastamp or massage. Personally I prefer systemically, by using magnesium, fibrosis destroying enzymes eaten, and adequate progesterone

What are fibrosis destroying enzymes?

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

haidut mentioned to me some indications that sublingual administration of certain substance seems to target brain better than other routes. Here's the link:

Metergoline - Serotonin Antagonist & Dopamine Agonist For R&D

So, perhaps, trying saturated steroids sublingually may not be a bad thing to try. I personally prefer it that way as mental effects seem stronger, especially with 11-keto and androsterone.

My rat seems to respond much better to androsterone orally. My rat doesn’t seem to respond to 11 keto dht on skin or andro on skin BUT andro orally seems to be making him more aggressive but calm at the same time i guess you could say assertive rather than aggressive, stress resliant, sharper mentally and not as fatigued and this is post accutane not PFS but i think @bloom is right i have noticed things that work on the brain help a lot more. Maybe this is why andro orally helps my rat so much more. Other things that have helped this rat is magnesium, niacinamide, caffeine, lots of calories, walking and sunlight. He has tried glycine and marijuana as well but just feels weird on them. Will probably try many other interventions such as lithium,GABA, 5a-DHP and maybe phenytoin. I will also test this rats prolactin very soon.

 

[Vicecaz]

My rat seems to respond much better to androsterone orally. My rat doesn’t seem to respond to 11 keto dht on skin or andro on skin BUT andro orally seems to be making him more aggressive but calm at the same time i guess you could say assertive rather than aggressive, stress resliant, sharper mentally and not as fatigued and this is post accutane not PFS but i think @bloom is right i have noticed things that work on the brain help a lot more. Maybe this is why andro orally helps my rat so much more. Other things that have helped this rat is magnesium, niacinamide, caffeine, lots of calories, walking and sunlight. He has tried glycine and marijuana as well but just feels weird on them. Will probably try many other interventions such as lithium,GABA, 5a-DHP and maybe phenytoin. I will also test this rats prolactin very soon.

You mean you made your rat take accutane?

Interesting experience anyway. What Androsterone gel are you applying to his skin, is it muscle gelz by androhard?

I'm post Accutane and on an androsterone gel cycle too.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

You mean you made your rat take accutane?

Interesting experience anyway. What Androsterone gel are you applying to his skin, is it muscle gelz by androhard?

I'm post Accutane and on an androsterone gel cycle too.

Yes my “rat” took Accutane. He is taking idealabs androsterone

 

[TheBeard]

Stopped sweating are you serious ? i highly doubt this is even possible from finasteride can you actually prove it somehow because anecdotal evidence really doesn't prove anything.

Also i am not going to delete anything if my opinion insults you that's your problem not mine.

Like i said in my previous posts finasteride destroys the body i never said it doesn't.

i am talking about sexual side effects, specifically people claiming to be completely impotent from just taking the drug for a couple of weeks.
which in my opinion is just axiety.

Also most if not all of symptoms of pfs are also present in depressed people so it makes sense that lowering neuro steroids like allopregnenolone will cause depression symptoms.

i never said finasteride is good i am just saying that there is a lot of fearmongering surrounding the drug there are many people who don't get any side effects
and just adjust to the drug.

I would love that you try Finasteride just once and see if you can power through the sides thanks to your great mind.

 

[Kyle Bigman]

Does anyone here think that Finasteride can trigger ALS?

Having significant symptoms of ALS right now.

These things make me think it is plausible:

-Glutathione reduction
- Testosterone dysregulation
- Estrogen increase

 

[broozer]

anyone knows what happened to the OP of this thread? he hasnt logged in since mid 2018.