Thoughts On 5ar And Post Finasteride Syndrome

[TubZy]

@TubZy How'd the tramadol go?

Good actually, sorry I didn't update last night I fell asleep. It felt very relaxing, pretty much all of the mental sides went away and maybe a slight libido increase (hard to really tell, but maybe due to less mental stress, libido increased slightly). Lasted for a few hours and have a mild afterglow type effect today, I slept really good too.

 

[chimdp]

Did the progesterone make you tired? Are you taking any androgens or dhea? And how did you find etifoxime did you have to ask your MD?

@sladerunner69 No, if anything Progesterone gave me boost in overall well-being (lessened anxiety drastically, brain fog reduced, confidence increased) which in turn gave me a boost in energy. Almost to the point I've noticed when I hit the right combination of supplements/pharma drugs and sleep I get a sort of manic type feeling. It wouldn't be a true manic episode because it typically only lasts 6-12 hours and doesnt prevent me from sleeping. The most disheartening part is knowing that I'm going to crash and I haven't found a routine that's allowed me to sustain it for more than a day or 2 so the anxiety of knowing I'm going to go back to a depressed/anxious state at some point in the near future eats away at my ability to fully enjoy feeling normal/energetic...

Like @bloom has realized, androgen supplements tend to either have a negative or a very short lived positive effect and then a negative effect for those whose PFS symptoms are mainly cognitive. On top of it, they tend to make my hair shed faster and I'm already hanging on by a thread with what I have left. Progesterone and 5a DHP may increase my shed a little bit, but their positive effect on my mental ability and well being outweigh the possible increase in shedding. I'm playing around with dosing for both of those to see what works best, they seem to greatly help me, where I dont get the same benefit from DHEA or Preg. I'm currently taking Progestene 10mg once or twice daily and have been experimenting with 3-4 drops of 5a-DHP here and there. @TubZy i've noticed you talking about progesterone and 5a-DHP quite a bit here and on swolsource, what dosages have you found best for you and others that you've spoke with?

The etifoxime was not from my doctor as its not approved by the FDA here in the US. I got it from an online pharmacy. I'm excited to get started on it and see if it helps. bloom, how long ago did you order yours? I ordered mine last weekend and paid for the faster shipping so I'm hoping I have it by next Saturday.

 

[chimdp]

Good actually, sorry I didn't update last night I fell asleep. It felt very relaxing, pretty much all of the mental sides went away and maybe a slight libido increase (hard to really tell, but maybe due to less mental stress, libido increased slightly). Lasted for a few hours and have a mild afterglow type effect today, I slept really good too.

Yeah, that's exactly how opiates affect me. I feel great, almost pre-PFS and then some, with some of the better effects resulting from the "afterglow" which can last as long 24-36 hours after taking a small dose of vicodin. Unfortunately it's not a long term solution and the more you dose the effects lessen in strength and length of the afterglow.

 

[chimdp]

On somewhat of a side note... Ever since PFS hit, I've had issues with dry skin (I wouldn't call it extremely dry, but enough to notice and always there) This has led to dry and thin hair at times, and my scalp looking slightly scaly (I don't really have dandruff tho) and I worry about it affecting hair growth. Has anyone had this and had any luck with remedies such as soaking your scalp in coconut oil/olive oil (maybe adding rosemary extract or something for hair growth)? Im good with my vitamins (energin, estroban, biotin, etc.) and eat plenty of good fats (mostly from eggs and ghee, and a little bit of coconut oil).

 

[TubZy]

On somewhat of a side note... Ever since PFS hit, I've had issues with dry skin (I wouldn't call it extremely dry, but enough to notice and always there) This has led to dry and thin hair at times, and my scalp looking slightly scaly (I don't really have dandruff tho) and I worry about it affecting hair growth. Has anyone had this and had any luck with remedies such as soaking your scalp in coconut oil/olive oil (maybe adding rosemary extract or something for hair growth)? Im good with my vitamins (energin, estroban, biotin, etc.) and eat plenty of good fats (mostly from eggs and ghee, and a little bit of coconut oil).

thyroid fixed that for me, my skin is nice now probably nicer prior to even pre fin status probably

 

[TubZy]

@sladerunner69 No, if anything Progesterone gave me boost in overall well-being (lessened anxiety drastically, brain fog reduced, confidence increased) which in turn gave me a boost in energy. Almost to the point I've noticed when I hit the right combination of supplements/pharma drugs and sleep I get a sort of manic type feeling. It wouldn't be a true manic episode because it typically only lasts 6-12 hours and doesnt prevent me from sleeping. The most disheartening part is knowing that I'm going to crash and I haven't found a routine that's allowed me to sustain it for more than a day or 2 so the anxiety of knowing I'm going to go back to a depressed/anxious state at some point in the near future eats away at my ability to fully enjoy feeling normal/energetic...

Like @bloom has realized, androgen supplements tend to either have a negative or a very short lived positive effect and then a negative effect for those whose PFS symptoms are mainly cognitive. On top of it, they tend to make my hair shed faster and I'm already hanging on by a thread with what I have left. Progesterone and 5a DHP may increase my shed a little bit, but their positive effect on my mental ability and well being outweigh the possible increase in shedding. I'm playing around with dosing for both of those to see what works best, they seem to greatly help me, where I dont get the same benefit from DHEA or Preg. I'm currently taking Progestene 10mg once or twice daily and have been experimenting with 3-4 drops of 5a-DHP here and there. @TubZy i've noticed you talking about progesterone and 5a-DHP quite a bit here and on swolsource, what dosages have you found best for you and others that you've spoke with?

The etifoxime was not from my doctor as its not approved by the FDA here in the US. I got it from an online pharmacy. I'm excited to get started on it and see if it helps. bloom, how long ago did you order yours? I ordered mine last weekend and paid for the faster shipping so I'm hoping I have it by next Saturday.

For the prog and dhea, I used 5mg dhea and 5mg of prog taken together before bed. For 5a-dhp, I tried all kinds of doses from 5mg to 50mg. What I found with the 5a-dhp is that is can be a hit or miss, sometimes when I take it, I get an extremely good response while others times I get no response even at a higher dose it is weird. I posted that study on the tolerance to allopreg, so I think that could be why.

But from my speculation, I think prog and 5a-dhp are good support, although I think I agree more with bloom in a sense that it is actually the synthesis in what needs to be corrected. Prog can convert to allopreg but if that synthesis isn't working correctly the end result will be inferior (end result being allopreg, THDOC etc.). Same thing with 5a-dhp and again 5a-dhp seems to only address one of the routes that were lowered (it doesn't raise THDOC for example).

I think 5a-dhp would have been better if it was just straight allopreg instead, that way we could get concentrations higher in the brain easier and promoting the corresponding enzymes higher.

This is why I agree with bloom in that etifoxime can help stimulate the actual synthesis (protein) of 5AR in the brain addressing all angles (allopreg, THDOC etc.)

I ordered etifoxime w/ the fast shipping as well and it shipped so hopefully will be here in a week or less.

 

[sladerunner69]

@sladerunner69 No, if anything Progesterone gave me boost in overall well-being (lessened anxiety drastically, brain fog reduced, confidence increased) which in turn gave me a boost in energy. Almost to the point I've noticed when I hit the right combination of supplements/pharma drugs and sleep I get a sort of manic type feeling. It wouldn't be a true manic episode because it typically only lasts 6-12 hours and doesnt prevent me from sleeping. The most disheartening part is knowing that I'm going to crash and I haven't found a routine that's allowed me to sustain it for more than a day or 2 so the anxiety of knowing I'm going to go back to a depressed/anxious state at some point in the near future eats away at my ability to fully enjoy feeling normal/energetic...

Like @bloom has realized, androgen supplements tend to either have a negative or a very short lived positive effect and then a negative effect for those whose PFS symptoms are mainly cognitive. On top of it, they tend to make my hair shed faster and I'm already hanging on by a thread with what I have left. Progesterone and 5a DHP may increase my shed a little bit, but their positive effect on my mental ability and well being outweigh the possible increase in shedding. I'm playing around with dosing for both of those to see what works best, they seem to greatly help me, where I dont get the same benefit from DHEA or Preg. I'm currently taking Progestene 10mg once or twice daily and have been experimenting with 3-4 drops of 5a-DHP here and there. @TubZy i've noticed you talking about progesterone and 5a-DHP quite a bit here and on swolsource, what dosages have you found best for you and others that you've spoke with?

The etifoxime was not from my doctor as its not approved by the FDA here in the US. I got it from an online pharmacy. I'm excited to get started on it and see if it helps. bloom, how long ago did you order yours? I ordered mine last weekend and paid for the faster shipping so I'm hoping I have it by next Saturday.

You take 10mg progestene x2 daily? Thats 6 drops per dose, right? Seems like way to much to me. I take one maybe two drops max. Progesterone does increase my geeling of overall wellbeing but it also makes me a bit sleepy amd spaced out. I usually end up dosing some pansterone to get an amdrogen boost after prog.

 

[chimdp]

You take 10mg progestene x2 daily? Thats 6 drops per dose, right? Seems like way to much to me. I take one maybe two drops max. Progesterone does increase my geeling of overall wellbeing but it also makes me a bit sleepy amd spaced out. I usually end up dosing some pansterone to get an amdrogen boost after prog.

I'd say twice daily is has been rare. More often than not I'm dosing 10mg in the morning. The progesterone, coffee w/fructose powder, raisins, and 12g of Great Lakes Collagen mixed with 15 drops of Energin have been a great morning boost for me.

 

[mayweatherking]

Have you guys noticed any negatives from using increased sugar? I noticed i started feeling better, but I started shedding a lot, and I feel like i am developing gyno now

 

[sladerunner69]

I'd say twice daily is has been rare. More often than not I'm dosing 10mg in the morning. The progesterone, coffee w/fructose powder, raisins, and 12g of Great Lakes Collagen mixed with 15 drops of Energin have been a great morning boost for me.

Interesting. To be clear though, that's 10mg as in 5 drops of progestene? Or one drop but you're coutning in the x10 factor for dmso?

 

[bloom]

Using Benzodiazepines in the long term are dangerous, you really don't want to be on them for long. A much safer alternative seems to be Nicotinamide and Inosine. This is a study already mentioned by Haidut, but i'll remind everyone of it. This study states that Nicotinamide and Inosine are endogenous ligands of the benzodiazepine receptor. I have used high doses of Nicotinamide on and off, and has very similar effects to that of Benzodiazepines without overt sedation, and doesn't seem to come with the risk of withdrawal that Benzodiazepines have. Nicotinamide in high doses can make me 'as calm as a Hindu cow' to quote Fight Club. I'm going to order some Inosine.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...enine-induced_seizures_than_against_pentylene

Nicotinamide (NAM, 1000 mg/kg), inosine (INS, 1000 mg/kg), hypoxanthine (HXT, 500 mg/kg), putative endogenous ligands of the benzodiazepine receptor, and nicotinic acid (NA, 500 mg/kg) diminished DL-kynurenine-(DL-K, 50 micrograms ICV) induced seizures in C57BL/6 adult male mice and only prolonged the latency of pentylenetetrazol (PTZ, 500 micrograms iCV) seizures
Nicotinamide, inosine and hypoxanthine, putative endogenous ligands of the benzodiazepine receptor, opposite to diazepam are much more effective against kynurenine-induced seizures than against pentylenetetrazol-induced seizures.

Nicotinamide is great stuff.

 

[bloom]

To be honest once I thought I had a pretty good understanding of what the major problem with PFS was, I thought fixing it would be the easy part. It seems like fixing it well and truly is the hard part. But I have a lot of time on my hands, I'm sure there's a solution, finding it though may take a lot longer than expected. However I do think we are well and truly on the right track.

 

[5 alpha victim]

Have you guys noticed any negatives from using increased sugar? I noticed i started feeling better, but I started shedding a lot, and I feel like i am developing gyno now

In general sugar makes my constipation worse. The less of it i take in the better my digestion is.

 

[5 alpha victim]

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[5 alpha victim]

To be honest once I thought I had a pretty good understanding of what the major problem with PFS was, I thought fixing it would be the easy part. It seems like fixing it well and truly is the hard part. But I have a lot of time on my hands, I'm sure there's a solution, finding it though may take a lot longer than expected. However I do think we are well and truly on the right track.

last year I would of said it's not possible. But after seeing 5adhp for my second time fill some of that missing void i know that at least getting back to a pretty good level on all fronts is possible if not completely recovered.

it's obvious that it will be the matter of finding out what else we are low in and taking it while understanding not all of us have been damaged in the same way or to the same degree.

 

[5 alpha victim]

Nicotinamide is great stuff.[/QUOTE]

I cannot wait to try this. it's on the way. 5adhp has taken number one on the top of the list for PFS treatments with super R Andro in a close second.

My experience with Prog and Preg is still limited but I'm not really sure if they will be around for the long term for me. My first two weeks on prog leads me to believe that it has no immediate benefits for relieving this condition and brings in just a shitty all-around shitty state of mind. The StressNon (preg) I'm simply feeling nothing from which I'm over a week now on.

unless preg or prog prove to have long term benefits with treating this like some claim I deff won't be making these a part of my perm protocol.

 

[5 alpha victim]

Check out this thread.
Finasteride Causes Physical Damage To Nerves, Depression, ED, Steroid Imbalance

I just read it...i guess that's exactly what I was looking for.

Did that thread inspire you to try T3 or was that next on your list anyway?

 

[bloom]

For the prog and dhea, I used 5mg dhea and 5mg of prog taken together before bed. For 5a-dhp, I tried all kinds of doses from 5mg to 50mg. What I found with the 5a-dhp is that is can be a hit or miss, sometimes when I take it, I get an extremely good response while others times I get no response even at a higher dose it is weird. I posted that study on the tolerance to allopreg, so I think that could be why.

But from my speculation, I think prog and 5a-dhp are good support, although I think I agree more with bloom in a sense that it is actually the synthesis in what needs to be corrected. Prog can convert to allopreg but if that synthesis isn't working correctly the end result will be inferior (end result being allopreg, THDOC etc.). Same thing with 5a-dhp and again 5a-dhp seems to only address one of the routes that were lowered (it doesn't raise THDOC for example).

I think 5a-dhp would have been better if it was just straight allopreg instead, that way we could get concentrations higher in the brain easier and promoting the corresponding enzymes higher.

This is why I agree with bloom in that etifoxime can help stimulate the actual synthesis (protein) of 5AR in the brain addressing all angles (allopreg, THDOC etc.)

I ordered etifoxime w/ the fast shipping as well and it shipped so hopefully will be here in a week or less.

I'm not sure that extifoxine will directly increase 5ar activity. I'm sure it will help though. GABAA receptor agonism certainly does. This is why i'm thinking nicotinamide and inosine may be a Powerful combo to increase 5ar activity. With regards to the above study. And may be a great treatment in the meantime. Im working on other stuff at the moment, it'll take a while for me figure out.

 

[bloom]

In treating PFS i think less can be more. Especially if your main problems are cognitive. Using antiestrogenic substance like vitamin e, or other T boosting treatments i think ought to be avoided, especially if you have severe cognitive symptoms.

 

[chimdp]

Interesting. To be clear though, that's 10mg as in 5 drops of progestene? Or one drop but you're coutning in the x10 factor for dmso?

10mg aka 6 drops of Progestene. I believe the full 20mg dose is 12 drops