Thiamine: One Of The Main Limiting Factors For Proper Carbohydrate Metabolism

Discussion in 'B1' started by Amazoniac, Apr 18, 2017.

  1. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    http://www.jbc.org/content/142/1/239.full.pdf

    "The relationship of vitamin B1 to carbohydrate metabolism was one of the earliest functions of a vitamin to be observed. The problem has been more or less continuously investigated up to the present time and the majority of the evidence indicates that in vitamin B1 deficiency there is some interference with glycogen storage, hyperglycemia, and characteristic errors in carbohydrate metabolism."

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    A Review of the Biochemistry, Metabolism and Clinical Benefits of Thiamin(e) and Its Derivatives

    "Because thiamine is a major factor in the metabolism of glucose, it has long been known that ingestion of simple carbohydrates, processed in the body mainly to glucose, automatically increases the need for dietary thiamine."

    "It gradually became evident that polished rice ingestion caused beriberi and that rice bran germ, barley and red beans, when taken together with polished rice, would prevent the disease. Funk and Cooper eventually isolated a substance from rice polishing and called it 'Vitamine'. This early research eventually led to the discovery of the active principle and it was named thiamine."

    "In various publications, it is spelled with and without the 'e'. The 'e' was dropped when it was found that it was not an amine. The word is used here with an 'e' is used here since it appears still to be more commonly used."

    "Considerable losses occur during cooking or other heat-processing of food."

    "It is very likely that many of the poorly understood symptomatology seen today that responds to nutrient therapy is caused by a mixture of marginal classic nutritional diseases, including beriberi, pellagra and scurvy. In our experience it is certainly true that symptoms arising from autonomic dysfunction are usually reversible by nutritional therapy."

    "Necropsy studies have suggested that TD [thiamine deficiency] is underdiagnosed in life because the classical clinical presentations are either uncommon or unrecognized. Marginal TD was found in 31% and definite deficiency in 17% of 36 non-demented, community-dwelling patients admitted to an acute geriatric unit (32). There is no doubt that severe TD is lethal but marginal deficiency can give rise to symptoms that are commonly mistaken for functional disease (1,28). A very early experiment in human subjects showed that marginal deficiency produced a multitude of symptoms that might, under ordinary clinical conditions, be regarded as functional in nature. The symptoms disappeared quickly when a thiamine sufficient diet was restored (33). Animal studies have shown that rats develop aggressive reflex behavior when marginal thiamine deficiency is induced experimentally (34,35). A live mouse, introduced to the cage where a thiamine deficient rat was housed, would be killed, but thereafter ignored and not consumed. Persistent erection suggested increased autonomic activity. It is possible that this might be a clue to poorly understood aggressive human behavior."

    "Although the full extent of nutrient interdependency is far from fully known, there is certainly evidence that thiamine activity is related to other non-caloric nutrients. For example, calcium and magnesium deficiency affects thiamine distribution in rat liver (65) and magnesium has a particularly important role since it is reported to aggravate thiamine deficiency (66). Administration of magnesium, high energy phosphates, piracetam and thiamine affected erythrocyte transketolase activity (67). A physiological concentration of magnesium can be shown to regulate TPP binding to the thiA riboswitch RNA (68)."

    "There seems to be little doubt that there are recurrent illnesses that are interpreted wrongly because of a general failure to recognize an underlying metabolic process. For example, not many physicians might think that recurrent febrile lymphadenopathy would be anything but the symptoms generated by infection."

    "In the early days of investigation of the relationship of TD with beriberi, anorexia was used as an important clinical marker of severity of the disease. Return of appetite heralded clinical improvement (Fig. 1)."

    "Neurological disorders in lead intoxicated animals, though not specified by the authors, have been observed in thiamine deficient animals (90). Three-week-old Wistar rats were treated with lead or lead plus thiamine and compared with a thiamine deficient group. Thiamine contents and transketolase activity in the brain were significantly lowered by lead intoxication and thiamine deficiency. In both cases, thresholds of electroshock stimulated seizures were decreased. Thiamine supplementation reversed these signs and decreased the brain lead concentration in the lead treated group (90). Olkowski et al. (91) studied the relative efficacy of thiamine and/or calcium disodium EDTA administration on lead excretion in lead-loaded sheep. They concluded that thiamine enhances elimination of lead from the body and that this feature may be beneficial in chelation therapy."

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    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51829999_Thiamine_The_Spark_of_Life

    "Factory workers would take their lunch between factory buildings. If the sun came round so that it shone into the corridor, some workers would get the first symptoms of the disease. It was evident that the sun’s rays would stress them sufficiently to initiate these symptoms. It was therefore hardly surprising that the etiology in the early 1900s, before its nutritional association became common knowledge, was considered to be from infection."

    "Many readers might be of the opinion that the classical forms of nutritional deficiency diseases have faded into the background of interesting history. This has caused their diverse symptoms to be neglected by most modern physicians since vitamin enrichment of many foods automatically erases them from their thinking about differential diagnosis. It must be emphasized that beriberi is a disease where the caloric intake is high, particularly in the form of simple carbohydrate foods such as starch." "It is the lack of vitamin content, particularly thiamin, that results in inefficient oxidative metabolism. Since the brain and heart have a high requirement for oxygen, it is easy to understand why the brain, nervous system and heart are the organs that are affected primarily."

    "The typical cardiac enlargement that is easily found by chest roentgenography can easily be mistaken for a viral myocardiopathy and might even lead to consideration of heart transplant if the correct diagnosis is missed."

    "Platt, an early investigator, reported that many victims had normoglycemia and were easily treated with thiamin (Platt 1967). More severe cases had hyperglycemia and responded to thiamin with greater difficulty, while others had hypoglycemia and some did not respond at all to the vitamin. Presumably this would reflect the severity and chronicity of the biochemical changes incurred and this should be noted since hyperglycemia would automatically be considered evidence of diabetes in the modern world. Some patients had achlorhydria and others had hyperchlorhydria. Curiously, under treatment with thiamin, those with achlorhydria became hyperchlorhydric before normal acid content was established. The exact opposite effect was seen in the hyperchlorhydric patients."

    "[..]beriberi symptomatology is extremely complex and not a matter of simply giving a few milligrams of thiamin. In fact, it took huge doses of the vitamin for months to abolish the symptoms."

    "Because so many different diagnosed conditions sometimes responded to the administration of thiamin as a single entity, it offended the emerging model for disease. Each disease is researched to find a cure that is specific for a given condition, sometimes referred to as the "silver bullet". Thiamin provided symptomatic responses in many different disease entities, indicating that it was addressing the underlying biochemical lesion. Perhaps, with the relatively new explosion in nutritional therapy, it is possible to start thinking that our disease model is catastrophically wrong. Since healing is a function of the body itself, all it requires is energy in order to carry out this role and it seems that a new model for disease is required (Lonsdal 2006)."

    "Vitamins fell into relative disrepute and even today they are often spurned by physicians who regard their pharmaceutical use as absurd. This is because even current teaching often provides the concept that vitamins, as cofactors, only work up to their minute physiological concentration. Pharmaceutical doses are conceived as being discarded and excreted without considering the necessary repair to damage that occurs in the enzyme/cofactor bonding as a result of prolonged deficiency."

    "The naturally occurring vitamin is found in lean pork and other meats, wheat germ, liver and other organ meats, poultry, eggs, fish, beans and peas, nuts and whole grains. Dairy products, fruit and vegetables are not good sources. The RDA is 0.5 mg per 1,000 kcal. Although this may be adequate for a healthy individual consuming a healthy diet, it may only be a marginal consumption. Considerable losses occur during cooking or other heat-processing of food. Polyphenolic compounds in coffee and tea can inactivate thiamin so that heavy use of these beverages could compromise thiamin nutrition."

    "There is no doubt that thiamin, in all its forms, has a vital role in many different aspects of energy metabolism since it catalyzes the normal use of oxygen. This is very well illustrated by the fact, discussed in relation to the symptoms of beriberi, that arterial oxygen concentration is relatively low while that of venous oxygen is relatively high. It is also pretty clear that TPP is possibly the rate limiting factor in entry of pyruvate to the citric acid cycle. Thus, besides being compared with a spark plug in an engine. it can also be compared to a throttle or accelerator."

    "Two publications have indicated that thiamin supplementation has a mild clinical effect in Alzheimer’s disease (AD) where the abnormality of the cholinergic system is part of the pathophysiology (Blass et al. 1988; Meador et al. 1993b)."

    "Creatinuria has been noted in beriberi as well as in experimentally induced thiamin deficiency. An observation in rats showed that creatinuria occurred as a result of protein calorie deficiency caused by experimental starvation. Where anorexia was caused by thiamin deprivation the creatinuria occurred much sooner and was statistically greater in concentration (Lonsdale 1987)."

    Williams et al. 1943:
    "Severe thiamin deprivation resulted in depressed mental states, generalized weakness, giddiness, backache, soreness of muscles, insomnia, anorexia, nausea, vomiting, weight loss, poor muscular tone, low blood pressure and bradycardia with the subjects at rest. On exertion, heart palpitation and precordial distress (pseudoangina) occurred. Tachycardia and sinus arrhythmia were observed. The investigators reported electrocardiographic changes and impairment of gastro intestinal motility."
    "Moderate, prolonged restriction of thiamin, but not of calories, resulted in emotional instability, reflected by irritability, moodiness, quarrelsome behavior, lack of cooperation, vague fears and agitation, mental depression, variable restriction of activity and numerous somatic complaints."
    "The effects on one subject, a 48 year old woman, were described in detail after 120 days of this deprivation. Blood pressure was between 90 and 98 and the diastolic between 50 and 60 mm Hg. Heart rate 50–60 bpm and there was marked sinus arrhythmia. Pallor and giddiness were observed when standing from the sitting position and rising from the squatting position could be accomplished only with assistance. The patellar tendon reflexes were hypoactive but could be increased through reinforcement and the Achilles tendon reflex was absent. The comments of the authors included the statement that symptoms suggestive of dysfunction of the central and peripheral nervous pathways preceded by months the gross signs of neurologic dysfunction."

    "A publication in 1962 (Bhuvaneswaran and Sreenivaran 1962) discussed problems of thiamin deficiency states and their treatment. Quoted in this paper is a reference to Yudkin who "showed that, despite the absence of thiamin, rats can survive for many months if carbohydrate is excluded from the diet. Polyneuritis and death followed the addition to the diet of as little as 5% carbohydrate"."

    "Thiamin deficiency is relative to the increased calorie content from simple carbohydrates and the reason for referring to this disastrous menace as "high calorie malnutrition"."

    "When a cofactor such as thiamin is required in huge doses in order to produce enzymatic function it is termed dependency. It is clinically deceptive because, even if the symptoms are regarded as related to vitamin cofactor action, a physiologic dose of the "missing" vitamin might be prescribed on the basic understanding that it would be curative. When no clinical response is observed, the therapist might conclude that the concept was wrong and the vitamin discontinued."

    "[..]some form of "stress" would initiate a response where metabolic efficiency [is] lacking. This is a concept that might apply to many different conditions where metabolic efficiency is marginal, as for example, with excess empty calories in the diet."
    Thyroid supplements, plenty of refined carbohydrates along with deficiencies, light bathes, exercise, casein, etc. Any sort of stimuli without proper ample support.
    I suspect that people that feel better seeking the darkness are doing the best that they can and know. It's not a coincidence that they also wear black and a lot of clothes. It's some sort of preservation at its finest, as sophisticated as burtlan wearing those pants that don't touch the shoes during a photoshoot on his private yacht #4 that's currently in Saint-Tropez.

    "A notable advance in research of thiamin metabolism in Japan was the discovery of allithiamin (Fujiwara 1965). Allicin, the compound that gives garlic its characteristic odor, is produced from alliin by the action of alliinase during the grinding of fresh garlic bulbs and conjugates with thiamin in an alkaline medium to form allithiamin (2'-methyl-4'amino-pyrimidyl-(5')methylformamino-5-hydroxy-2-pentenyl-(S) allyl disulfide)."

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    Refeeding syndrome – awareness, prevention and management

    "Starvation will usually result in several vitamin deficiencies. The most important of these with respect to refeeding is thiamine, as it is an essential coenzyme in carbohydrate metabolism."

    --
    A Review of the Biochemistry, Metabolism and Clinical Benefits of Thiamin(e) and Its Derivatives

    "Because thiamine is a major factor in the metabolism of glucose, it has long been known that ingestion of simple carbohydrates, processed in the body mainly to glucose, automatically increases the need for dietary thiamine."

    --
    ESPN: 0-8247-0428-2

    "All of the published reports indicate that beriberi, the clinical condition of thiamine deficiency, in Asian populations is always associated with high intake of carbohydrate and insufficient intake of thiamine (5,9,10,30,40–42).
    Recent studies in Thailand (10,43–46) and Japan (47–49) have confirmed that inadequate thiamine intake accompanied by high intake of carbohydrate derived from milled rice and refined carbohydrate is still the major cause of thiamine deficiency in Asian populations. For instance, dietary assessment in a village in northeastern Thailand has repeatedly shown that the villagers' protein and energy intakes are mainly supplied from a rice-based diet; 78% of their energy intake is carbohydrate, mainly derived from milled rice. Milled rice is a poor source of thiamine (Table 1), and about 85% of its thiamine content is lost when the water in which it has been soaked is discarded (10,44,50,51). Thus, their thiamine intake is low, e.g., 0.23 mg/1000 kcal (44). These dietary data are consistent with the high prevalence of biochemical thiamine depletion in that population (10,43,44). The adverse effects of the ATFs on thiamine status caused by consumption of raw fermented fish and chewing betel nuts have also been demonstrated in northeastern Thais, whereas inadequate thiamine status is also detected in northern Thais who regularly chew fermented tea leaves (16).
    The reappearance of beriberi in Japan in the 1970s is related to high carbohydrate intake derived from milled rice, instant noodles, and sweet carbonated drinks, coupled with low thiamine intake (47–49)."

    "Thiamine is stable at acid pH and becomes unstable at pH 7.0 or higher. In cooking practice, the addition of sodium bicarbonate to green beans and peas to retain green color or to dried beans to facilitate softening can lead to large losses of thiamine (2,5)."

    "Thiamine in tissues that is bound to protein is more stable to thermal destruction than is free thiamine. Thiamine losses on cooking and canning of meats, baking of breads, and cooking of vegetables are 25–85%, 5–35%, and 0–60%, respectively. The variation depends on temperature, time, and types of food products."

    "Thiamine is cleaved by residual chlorine (0.2–2.0 ppm of chlorine) in proportion to the rise in temperature, pH, and concentration of residual chlorine. When rice is boiled in an electric rice cooker, the thiamine in the rice is cleaved by residual chlorine. When rice is cooked in tap water containing 200 ng/mL of chlorine or distilled water without chlorine, thiamine losses from rice are 56.5% and 32.2%, respectively."

    "Since thiamine is highly water-soluble, significant thiamine losses occur during cooking of foods when there is the excessive use of water that is then discarded. About 85% of thiamine is lost by discarding the water after soaking the rice (5,9,10). Though parboiling rice causes the thiamine to move from the outer layers to the inner layers of the rice kernel, thus leading to greater thermal stability and smaller losses due to washing of the thiamine, parboiled rice is not widely available or widely consumed by the Asian population."

    "Processing foods in the presence of oxygen or other oxidants can lead to the formation of thiamine sulfides and disulfides, thiochrome, and other oxidation products. This can lead to irreversible loss of thiamine activity (2)."

    "Thiamine is also destroyed by x-rays, γ-rays, and UV irradiation. UV irradiation leads to the production of 2-methyl-4-amino-5-aminoethylpyrimidine (2)."

    "Sulfites destroy thiamine. Sulfites that form in the treatment of fruits during dehydration with SO2 destroy most of the thiamine present (5)."

    "Excessive alcohol ingestion is associated with thiamine deficiency. Ethanol given orally or intravenously inhibits intestinal thiamine uptake (2,5,12,13)." "The maximum absorption of 35S-thiamine in alcoholics may be as low as 1.5 mg, similar to that seen in patients with intestinal resection in whom the reduction is attributable to a decrease in receptor sites (12)."

    "Continual intake of raw freshwater fish with or without fermentation, raw shellfish, and ferns are risk factors for the development of thiamine deficiency (5,9,10,14–16)."

    "Human studies have shown that tea drinking, tea leaf chewing, coffee or decaffeinated coffee drinking, and betel nut chewing lead to biochemical thiamine depletion. Ascorbic acid intake from either pharmaceutical preparations or from foods improves thiamine status of the subjects (16,17)."
    "Thiamine deficiency caused by prolonged consumption of tea in rats was reversed by discontinuing tea consumption; brain thiamine and brain and blood transketolase activities were restored to normal levels within a week, whereas the time required for complete restoration of pyruvate dehydrogenase and α-ketoglutarate activities is about 2 weeks."

    "Folate-deficient rats absorb thiamine less efficiently than pair-fed controls (20). These data imply that folate may have a role in maintaining the integrity of the active transport process of thiamine (13). Subjects with folate or protein deficiency show a significant reduction in the maximum absorption of 35S-thiamine. The interaction of protein-energy malnutrition and thiamine absorption is demonstrated by an increase in the maximum absorption of 35S-thiamine in malnourished alcoholics, with a decreased maximum absorption of thiamine after correction of protein-energy malnutrition (21)." @whodathunkit
     
  2. sele

    sele Member

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  3. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Member

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    :thumbsup:

    Nice post. I take thiamine, too. :D
     
  4. tca300

    tca300 Member

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    Lol fruit and dairy arent good sources?
    Except it lists liver, eggs, etc as good sources???
    Oranges have ~5 times the b1 content of eggs on a calorie for calorie basis, and milk matches liver calorie for calorie.. they need to research things before they just say nonsense.
     
  5. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Westside: right again.
     
  6. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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  7. Tarmander

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    I used high doses of thiamine for I think something like nine months. For the most part it seemed to benefit but my nails began to show a flattening and signs of iron deficiency, so I stopped taking it.
     
  8. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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  9. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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  10. Lilac

    Lilac Member

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    I had a bottle of B1 in the house for my mother. I had never tried it. After reading this thread, I thought I would give it a whirl. I have generally been feeling not great this winter. The most recent problem was some subtle injury from snow and ice shoveling that lead to easily-triggered numbness in my hands. I took 100mg on Tuesday and Wednesday, and by Wednesday afternoon was feeling much more energetic. The nerve damage is subsiding, chronic mild constipation is much better, and I think body fat has gone down a bit. I skipped Thursday but took another 100mg today. I'm crossing my fingers that this is a game-changer for fat loss.
     
  11. Loachi1105

    Loachi1105 Member

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  12. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Excellent, it tastes excellent in salads , just need to get my hands on some.
     
  13. Dan Wich

    Dan Wich Member

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    I've been loving the Amazoniac Science Summary™®© posts.

    I can't remember the brand, but there was a popular one that was spraying added vitamins on theirs during production while still labeling it as just plain brewer's yeast. Lewis Labs brand explicitly claims nothing added, which seems like a good sign.

    Peat's mentioned the idea of only consuming a water-extract of the yeast, presumably to filter out something undesirable in the solids. Here's the RobT/FPS recipe:
     
  14. Dan Wich

    Dan Wich Member

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    From casual reading, it seems like the thiamine from brewer's yeast would probably survive ok from a short boil in water.

    I have no idea how reliable this is, but here's a cool overview of the light and heat sensitivity of different nutrients.
     
  15. OP
    Amazoniac

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    Dementia and Progesterone (KMUD):
    "The most intense effect you can get from the right combination of thyroid T3 and a big dose of vitamin B1 if the rest of your nutrition is good. I have told several people to try that over the years and no one has scored under 800 on the graduate record exam or the other standardized exams where that's considered as just part of perfect score. When they did it taking about 100 milligrams at the start, it lets you have access to just about everything you've ever known or thought." "[But] you have to backup your physiology, thyroid and B1 can't do it all by themselves."
     
  16. Travis

    Travis Member

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    But it is an amine.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. OP
    Amazoniac

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  18. Travis

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    I think the author of that article was slightly mistaken. Here is paragraph that I think gives a better feel for what happened to thiamine.

    Thiamine or vitamin B

    Some of the early vitamines were actually amines, but many such as ascorbate and the fat-solubles are not. They likely dropped the "e" to make the word vitamin more inclusive. The word 'vitamin' does not imply an amine group like the word 'vitamine' does.

    But many vitamins still amines by IUPAC's definition, such as:
    •Pantothenic acid
    •Riboflavin (cyclic amine)
    •Biotin
    •Folic acid
    •Cobalamin

    I did a search and it appears that at least on other person was puzzled by Lonsdale's comment. It can be found here. I think the response that he got was pretty shallow

    Thiamine is basically a substituted thiazole ring connected to an aminopyrimidine ring through a methylene bridge. The aminopyrimidine moiety carries the amino group in question (amine group) and PubChem lists alternate names as:

    •Pyrimidin-2-amine
    •2-Pyrimidinamine
    •Pyrimidin-2-ylamine

    Which of course are all named as amines. I think we can safely say that thiamine is an amine despite what Lonsdale said.

    Moreover, it was named after it was synthesized and chemically characterized, by a chemist, and the first name given to the compound was "thiamin", without the "e".

    THE CHEMISTRY OF THIAMIN (VITAMIN B1)

    I think this is a Lonsdale confabulation. He is confusing what happened to the word 'vitamine' with what happened to the word 'thiamine'.
     
  19. Gl;itch.e

    Gl;itch.e Member

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    any one want to take a stab at how much thiamine to how much carbohydrate ratio?
     
  20. belcanto

    belcanto Member

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    I believe the solids are considered estrogenic.
     
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