Terrance McKenna The Eugenicist? Psychedelics, Feminism And Transhumanism

[Herbie]

I respect it, I don't necessarily agree with the legalities.

 

[x-ray peat]

The audio can be found here.

When that quote is written down like the way you wrote it, it looks pretty bad. I mean, it does sound bad even in the audio—but a bit less incriminating.

Here is my version:

Context: He's lecturing to a bunch or middle upper-class intellectuals, quasi-intellectuals, and the just plain curious with an inclination for this stuff inside The Esalen Institute: a nice facility in Big Sur which has an interesting history. Many famous people have taught there. Lecturers have ranged from one end of the woo spectrum (Deepak Chopra, ect.) ➝ to the other (Linus Pauling, BF Skinner.)

Questioner#1: I’m real curious about one thing: Why is it important for you to do this?

Terence McKenna: I wonder myself. You mean: "Am I the alien ambassador...

Crowd: [laughter].

Terence McKenna: ...whether I like it or not?" [laughs]. Well...Often when asked this question I've said, "It beats honest work." I mean, my brother is a PhD in three subjects and works in hard science and...uh. I don't think it's brought him immense happiness—not that he's despondent—but...I was always kind of a slider, ya know? And...Certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971: I had a price on my head by the FBI; I was running-out-of-money I was at the end-of-my-rope. And then: ‡They...Recruited me.

Crowd: [laughter].

Terence McKenna: And said: "You know. With a mouth like yours, there's a place for you in our organization."

Crowd: [still laughing].

Terence McKenna: And I've worked in deep background positions—about which the best...the less-said the better. And then, you know, about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I've been there...to the present.

Questioner: ['s eyes are probably telling him to keep going. Sort of like, "I paid $1,000 for this frickin' weekend workshop McKenna.]

Terence McKenna: Uh...I think ideas get me high, and I like...the feeling of understanding. And I love...diversity to the point of weirdness. I mean I...

Questioner#2: There's more to it than that for you because, you know, being tuned-into ideas and turned-on by ideas is one thing if you can keep that just to yourself—but the sharing of it with someone else, that's what we’re getting at.

[Considering the topic, it's probably worth noting the questioner appears not to have taken what Terrence had just said as an admission of FBI-recruitment since he persists in asking for a motive. Perhaps he took Terrence's quote, "They...Recruited me." to be facetious? Maybe referring to "DMT elves from hyperspace"? Listening back on Terrence's impersonation,* "'You know. With a mouth like yours...'" [4:22:56] you might think that he was impersonating a DMT elf. Maybe so: maybe not. But if he was making a confession about an FBI recruitment, it was a pretty goofy FBI agent he was impersonating—perhaps even goofier than the cross-dressing J. Edgar Hoover.]

Terence: Well one thing is: I'm really fascinated…I think of myself as a pretty savvy person and not...easily led into false dogma. And yet! this is such a strange idea. [Probably rolling his eyes towards Deepak Chopra's office] And so—basically it's a plea for help. I am...It's—it's not a cult. It's not that I want you to join me in believing in this, it's that it's so outlandish that join me as'a scientist would join'a research team and let's cut-it-to-pieces and show that it was simply a misunderstanding-of-information-theory coupled-with bad-mathematics spliced-onto'a...weak-ontology (or something like that.)

Crowd: [laughter].

Terence:You know. Because this idea...I could unde – I could live with The Timewave if I only had to read about in Time Magazine and that it was being developed by Negroponte† and Prigogine. The thing that sets-up the cognitive dissonance for me is that I—from the point of view of most people—thought it up. And I am so aware of my limitations, that to me that's the strongest argument there is that it's malarky.

*I personally do my FBI impersonations in sternvoice.

†Jan Irvin missed this gem. This could be a reference to John Dimitri Negroponte, who was only a US Ambassador at the time but who would later go on to become the first United States Director of National Intelligence. But since McKenna was talking about his Timewave—which is a computer program—he is most likely talking about MIT computer professor Nicholas Negroponte. Hypothetically mentioning both "Negroponte and Prigogine" as creating a better Timewave makes sense when their names are parenthetically-overlaid onto his previous comment made while attacking his own Timewave: "...it was simply a misunderstanding-of-information-theory (Negroponte wouldn't) coupled-with bad-mathematics (Prigogine would do better) spliced-onto'a...weak-ontology..."

‡Perhaps go up⇑ to "They...Recruited me" and consider that he was simply referring to The Esalen Institute?

Honestly I dont see much difference. To me the joke he is making is in his open mocking of his audience by telling them that he has been a disinfo agent for his whole career. GnosticMedia and others talk a lot about how the elite loves to mock their victims. There is a ritualistic aspect to this as well that i wont get into but suffice to say it is very common. In their expose of the Grateful Dead they point to this open admission in the song US Blues.
"I'm Uncle Sam, that's who I am; Been hidin' out in a rock and roll band."
People just cannot believe that someone would be so evil as to openly tell them that they are screwing them.

Another example are the words the children in Florida were reading to President Bush seconds before he is told of the 9/11 attacks: "KITE, STEEL, PLANE, MUST, HIT" I just looked it up and another definition of kite "is a person who preys on others." Nothing is by chance

 

[Travis]

Honestly I dont see much difference. To me the joke he is making is in his open mocking of his audience by telling them that he has been a disinfo agent for his whole career.

I wasn't there. But when he said "They...Recruited me", there was considerable laughter. He could have been gesturing towards a photo of Michael Murphy and Dιck Price on the wall.

When he said "...about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations..." he could have been talking about Esalen. As far as I can tell, this was his employer. There appears to be more evidence that he was paid by Esalen than he was paid by the FBI.

The questioner didn't take this as an admission of FBI involvement.

Jan Irvin's article has an interesting comment by a man who purportedly has a quote from Dennis McKenna on this topic:

Masonic Order [username]
July 9, 2016 at 10:27 am [date]

Dear Jan, as I said, I am thoroughly versed in Terence’s work & talks, books & ideas yet barring that you believe otherwise, certainly shows you’ll go on no evidence but my initial admittedly rather lame efforts here, if it suits you! Dr Dennis McKenna was in town recently & I was directed to a discussion I will post a transcript of for all to see from someone who was always there to the end, his brother. Let people decide. You’ve spent years defending this conspiracy and it bothers me more than I 1st admitted. Here’s what Dennis says. You know him. I read the metaphor as did his own brother, without thinking twice, owing Terence’s ideas well.

“Was there no connection with the CIA with me or Terence …I can tell you neither Terence nor I had anything to do with the CIA, ah ah, if you’re talking of the Central Intelligence Agency…I could joke & say we worked for the Cosmic Intelligence Agency but then some of your audience would misconstrue that…So let me make it CLEAR, he never worked for the CIA and neither did I!
Yes, I know where it comes from I will dissect that right now, He said something casually about, (after a talk in a q & a session) “well I was Deep Cover for a while and then they moved me into PR”, right, and who the they are was never specified but I can tell you who the they are cause, those remarks, Jan Irwin was either taking them out of context, or just an idiot, because the meaning of it is clear if you listen to the whole talk and he is talking about, he worked for the mushrooms, which he did understand correctly or not to be actually a, whether it was the mushrooms themselves, or they were representative of an intelligence race, that was controlling them, he worked for the mushrooms, that was the they that he worked for, and he was deep cover, and that refers to the years he was not in public, he was in the basement growing mushrooms as furiously as he possibly could, that was deep cover, right?”

Then he decided it’s not sustainable, sooner or later their gonna catch up to me on this, so he decided to go into public relations. He started talking about it a lot more, and that‘s when he became the spokesmen that he is. But it was, he was working with the mushrooms and for Janna to take this and construe to mean he was working for the CIA was, well it’s a really tortured stretch you have to make to make that connection considering how it was, how it was, the context.”

Also, I am his brother and I think I’d know as we were involved in all this stuff together quite deeply you know. I’ve been to Esalen many times does that mean I’m working for the CIA. He seems to think that anyone working with psychedelics that happened to pass through Esalen was all part of this big conspiracy. Well That’s just utter horse ***t. Well all kinds of people passed through Esalen that doesn’t mean a conspiracy, shhht…lol…It’s just unbelievable and just such sloppy thinking and uncritical thinking that I can’t take it seriously, when all this comes out I just think poor Jan, adjust his medications or something, I don’t know! He’s seriously deluded.”

I'm not sure what Terrence meant, I wasn't there. But neither was Dennis or Jan. If someone wants to form an opinion I would suggest listening to the audio while assuming that he's talking about either the DMT elves, mushrooms, The Esalen Institute, the Human Potential Movement in general, or the FBI. Listen to the crowd's reactions. (There is a lot of information that is lost when audio is converted into text.)

Also, perhaps listen to his impersonation of The Recruiter.

 

[Sucrates]

I don't think that statement from McKenna is anything more than him making a joke about his mushroom narrative.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I don't think that statement from McKenna is anything more than him making a joke about his mushroom narrative.

 

[x-ray peat]

I don't think that statement from McKenna is anything more than him making a joke about his mushroom narrative.

Have you changed your mind on McKenna? Earlier on you seemed to be certain he was a "deep state agent."

 

[Regina]

I highly recommend listening to Michael Tsarion's podcasts. His focus is attaining Self-hood. But he is so literate and well-versed; it is an absolute refreshing joy to listen in.
Who knew Tarot cards were interesting? I sure didn't. Have a listen, if you like:
The Tarot and Evil part1
The Tarot and Evil part2

 

[Travis]

Yeah. That Micheal Tsarion guy is something else. I would have listened to him more in the past but I need a stoned and calm voice to listen to when I go to sleep. The hour before I sleep is when I hear most of my Alan Watts, Max Igan, and Terrence McKenna.

Micheal Tsarion certainly has my endorsement as well.

 

[Sucrates]

Tsarion makes weak assertions and associations and then moves forward as if that were fact, repeating and stacking the process to build a pyramid of cards, very similar to people like David Icke, though Tsarion is more verbally adept and speaks at a faster pace. In his visual presentations he also uses imagery while reading text to make associations that really can't be argued, again stacking them in to his finished pile. I watched all of his presentations up to about 7 years ago and had some personal knowledge of a small subset of topics he discussed (Irish Mythology), which were extremely misrepresented.
If you stop the tape and write down what he's saying after every statement, along with any presented images, I think what's going on becomes clear pretty quickly. There was some christian guy on youtube that had some good logical criticisms of Tsarion.

 

[x-ray peat]

Tsarion makes weak assertions and associations and then moves forward as if that were fact, repeating and stacking the process to build a pyramid of cards, very similar to people like David Icke, though Tsarion is more verbally adept and speaks at a faster pace. In his visual presentations he also uses imagery while reading text to make associations that really can't be argued, again stacking them in to his finished pile. I watched all of his presentations up to about 7 years ago and had some personal knowledge of a small subset of topics he discussed (Irish Mythology), which were extremely misrepresented.
If you stop the tape and write down what he's saying after every statement, along with any presented images, I think what's going on becomes clear pretty quickly. There was some christian guy on youtube that had some good logical criticisms of Tsarion.

+1

 

[lollipop]

Tsarion makes weak assertions and associations and then moves forward as if that were fact, repeating and stacking the process to build a pyramid of cards, very similar to people like David Icke, though Tsarion is more verbally adept and speaks at a faster pace. In his visual presentations he also uses imagery while reading text to make associations that really can't be argued, again stacking them in to his finished pile. I watched all of his presentations up to about 7 years ago and had some personal knowledge of a small subset of topics he discussed (Irish Mythology), which were extremely misrepresented.
If you stop the tape and write down what he's saying after every statement, along with any presented images, I think what's going on becomes clear pretty quickly. There was some christian guy on youtube that had some good logical criticisms of Tsarion.

+1 watched several of his "productions", stopped as I felt they were off, ultra hyped/distorted and preying of subconscious fears. Not trustworthy imho.

 

[Insaneacinamide]

"It’s just unbelievable and just such sloppy thinking and uncritical thinking that I can’t take it seriously, when all this comes out I just think poor Jan, adjust his medications or something, I don’t know! He’s seriously deluded.” - Dennis McKenna
(I couldn't quote this from Travis's quoted post #103 on this thread page, pasted it instead)

Hahaha Dennis seems very butt hurt. Tells Jan to adjust his medications, while Dennis promotes/writes about medicines himself in which Jan has already tried many of them before.

Jan has done great work exposing these people. Changing his stance on psychedelics/hallucinogens takes a lot of courage to admit he was duped.

@1:50- 3:00 Tim Leary (government agent/youtube: Tim Leary cia) talks about his friends The Grateful Dead (government agent band/youtube: Grateful Dead cia) then introduces another friend Terrance McKenna(how can he not be a government agent?)

Ray Peat is far ahead of Mckenna/Tsarion/Icke for empowering people, and health knowledge. Talking about things like metabolism, quality foods, supplements, lifting weights, hormones, neurotransmitters, blood work, studying, medicines, drugs, and keeping healthy in various ways.

 

[Travis]

Jan has done great work exposing these people.

He's done some good work on Gordon Wasson. But everything to deal with McKenna is not very well documented, in my opinion. Go through his references and see if you can find anything substantial.

I couldn't have said it better than x-ray peat, but I would have added an extra name at the end: "...makes weak assertions and associations and then moves forward as if that were fact, repeating and stacking the process to build a pyramid of cards, very similar to people like David Icke..."...Jan Irvin!

Tim Leary and The Grateful Dead are something entirely different. It wouldn't really surprise me if they had been CIA-funded; although, "St. Stephen" would still be a real good song whether CIA-funded or not. As a psychiatrist, you could have expected Tim Leary to take grants from CIA's MK-ULTRA project. Inspired by the article in Time magazine, he purportedly followed after Wasson to Mexico—for shrooms:

•Leary, Timothy, George H. Litwin, and Ralph Metzner. "REACTIONS TO PSILOCYBJN ADMINISTERED IN A SUPPORTIVE ENVIRONMENT." The Journal of nervous and mental disease 137.6 (1963): 561-573.

Of all the people who could potentially be CIA agents, I think Max Igan and Terrence McKenna are the least-likely; Alex Jones and David Icke certainly the most likely.

 

[x-ray peat]

I couldn't have said it better than x-ray peat, but I would have added an extra name at the end: "...makes weak assertions and associations and then moves forward as if that were fact, repeating and stacking the process to build a pyramid of cards, very similar to people like David Icke..."...Jan Irvin!.

that was @Sucrates, and I liked it to. FWIW I think Jan Irwin and Joe Atwill are also agents and agree that Sucrates' phrase could be applied to either one. With that said I do like a lot of their research. Atwill's Caesar's Messiah is absolutely mind blowing.

The disinfo campaign of the CIAs Project Mockingbird is very sophisticated. Agents exposing agents to build their own credibility is not that surprising.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

that was @Sucrates, and I liked it to. FWIW I think Jan Irwin and Joe Atwill are also agents and agree that Sucrates' phrase could be applied to either one. With that said I do like a lot of their research. Atwill's Caesar's Messiah is absolutely mind blowing.

The disinfo campaign of the CIAs Project Mockingbird is very sophisticated. Agents exposing agents to build their own credibility is not that surprising.

Are YOU an agent too?

 

[Insaneacinamide]

...makes weak assertions and associations and then moves forward as if that were fact

How is it a weak assertion/association on Jan's part when it is fact that Terrance is a friend with an admitted agent in the same movement he was in?


"I give the CIA a total credit for sponsoring and initiating the entire consciousness movement, counter culture events of the 1960's... The cia funded and supported and encouraged 100's of young psychiatrists to experiment with this drug (LSD)..." Tim Leary

Terence: well one thing is, I'm really fascinated… I think of myself as a pretty savvy person, and not easily led into false dogma.." taken from https://www.gnosticmedia.com/McKenna-Agent


How would such a savvy, smart person not know some of his close friends/various leaders in the hallucinogenic(counter culture) movement were agents?
Have Dennis or Terrence ever mentioned the cia sponsoring the movement they were apart of as Tim Leary admitted to?

 

[x-ray peat]

Are YOU an agent too?

Yes, I am on deep background for my mushroom overlords

 

[Regina]

Tsarion makes weak assertions and associations and then moves forward as if that were fact, repeating and stacking the process to build a pyramid of cards, very similar to people like David Icke, though Tsarion is more verbally adept and speaks at a faster pace. In his visual presentations he also uses imagery while reading text to make associations that really can't be argued, again stacking them in to his finished pile. I watched all of his presentations up to about 7 years ago and had some personal knowledge of a small subset of topics he discussed (Irish Mythology), which were extremely misrepresented.
If you stop the tape and write down what he's saying after every statement, along with any presented images, I think what's going on becomes clear pretty quickly. There was some christian guy on youtube that had some good logical criticisms of Tsarion.

Ah, I have some catching to do. And I don't mind if I do:
Authentic Lives
Although mate, I will say that he looks increasingly hypothyroid and estrogenic. There is a big difference between clips from 2011 and 2017. But maybe he'll find Peat in his quest.

 

[Travis]

How would such a savvy, smart person not know some of his close friends/various leaders in the hallucinogenic(counter culture) movement were agents?

Taking research grants from the CIA is different than being an agent, and even being an agent in the past does not make one an agent at present.

...makes weak assertions and associations and then moves forward as if that were fact.

I think much of the 60s was an organic movement. It's natural for many people that age to be appalled by the racist, pig-headedness, of people like Richard Nixon, their parents, and,...the entire Deep South. It would still be interesting to know how much LSD was funded by the CIA, how much was made by independent chemists, and which bands were de novo CIA constructs.

This is what Hunter S. Thompson has to say about the 60s:

And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting—on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .

So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.”

― Hunter S. Thompson

 

[Herbie]

I think much of the 60s was an organic movement. /QUOTE]

Do you have any thoughts of the interviews with Yuri Bezmenov on youtube?