Supraphysiological Testosterone & DHT levels

[Jremy25]

Hi all,

What are the risks of keeping free T & DHT at supraphysiological levels (I’ve attached my bloodwork) for prolonged periods of time via the use of transdermal DHT & T gels?

I’m been using transdermal 20% DHT solution & 20% T solution from Alphagels Compounding for the past year and have noticed significant masculinization benefits:

- body hair growth
- shrinkage of my pubertal gyno
- increase in beard thickness and density
- increase in penile length and girth
- more pronounced jaw and brow ridge
- denser frame (bone density?)
- increased vascularity
- increase muscle strength
- significantly harder muscles
- loss of fat from feminine regions (hips, butt, thighs, love handles, chest)

I’m hesistant to reduce my dosage given that I feel and look incredible at this dose.

Is this realistically sustainable long term without any major negative health consequences?

Appreciate any guidance/personal experiences which you can share with me.

 

[PopSocket]

With almost 20x the normal range for DHT you are essentially doing a light cycle all the time. No doubt you look your best.

The problem with T therapy is that it lowers some other hormones with progesterone being a very important one. Your E is also on the high side but I guess DHT would compensate for it. You are playing with fire my friend if you think to do it without any restarts from time to time to give the system a bit of a break imo. Transdermal usually lets the body return to normal very quickly and it makes sense to do restarts and hop on again when the system is back to its original state. Especially if you are working on improving the basics and boost metabolism and steroid profile "naturally" using nutrition and some supplements like vit E, k2 etc etc

But let some more knowledgeable/experienced people chime in. I am also interested to hear opinions on this.

 

[Jremy25]

With almost 20x the normal range for DHT you are essentially doing a light cycle all the time. No doubt you look your best.

The problem with T therapy is that it lowers some other hormones with progesterone being a very important one. Your E is also on the high side but I guess DHT would compensate for it. You are playing with fire my friend if you think to do it without any restarts from time to time to give the system a bit of a break imo. Transdermal usually lets the body return to normal very quickly and it makes sense to do restarts and hop on again when the system is back to its original state. Especially if you are working on improving the basics and boost metabolism and steroid profile "naturally" using nutrition and some supplements like vit E, k2 etc etc

But let some more knowledgeable/experienced people chime in. I am also interested to hear opinions on this.

Thanks for your feedback, I am worried about potential cardiovascular issues long term most of all.

I have been using a very low dose of HCG for most of the time in order to ensure that my fertility isn’t impacted so testicular function isn’t my main concern here.

Would it be worth running this protocol in 3 month ON, 3 month OFF cycles? Or would that mess with my hormones too much without yielding long term benefits on my body composition/mood/sexual function.

 

[PopSocket]

Would it be worth running this protocol in 3 month ON, 3 month OFF cycles? Or would that mess with my hormones too much without yielding long term benefits on my body composition/mood/sexual function.

No idea what would work for you. You need to experiment and see what works best for your body. I very much understand why you want to be on this forever ( : I was on T for 3.5 years straight back in the days but got some sides around the 3rd year, one of which was lack of proper sleep which was a deal breaker for me as I don't want wrinkles and stuff. Yet, life is short and I believe it is better to spend it looking and feeling real good as no matter what the end is the same for everyone.

I normally cycle in spring and summer and it is a short duration of 6 to 8 weeks in which my body visibly changes a lot but I drive my levels a bit higher than yours. It takes me 18-25 days to return to my natural levels that I managed to boost to the top of the range. I do feel off first 2 weeks after stopping and lose some of the visual benefits, as well as sexual function is close to 0. Then on the 3rd week everything goes back to normal and I feel better mood wise than what I feel on cycle so it is a trade off for me.

I am looking for more responses from other more experienced members who can get more insights.

I recently stumbled upon the idea of small doses of transdermal DHT as it seems to boost 5AR activity without a shutdown and can be used long term in theory but haven't tried it yet. Or maybe in between cycles. Will need a few more months to get into it.

 

[Jremy25]

I like the idea of running shorter blast cycles which allow the HPTA to recover quicker and then utilizing natural means to keep levels naturally high off cycle.

Any idea what dose would be needed to completely avoid shutdown? Using T and DHT in small doses where it provides a boost but doesn’t mess with my natty production would be the most ideal scenario.

Interestingly my free T3 levels also increased during this time, I’m guessing that DHT leads to higher T3 conversion?

 

[PopSocket]

I like the idea of running shorter blast cycles which allow the HPTA to recover quicker and then utilizing natural means to keep levels naturally high off cycle.

Any idea what dose would be needed to completely avoid shutdown? Using T and DHT in small doses where it provides a boost but doesn’t mess with my natty production would be the most ideal scenario.

Interestingly my free T3 levels also increased during this time, I’m guessing that DHT leads to higher T3 conversion?

I think for DHT the maximum is 1 to 5mg and T is like 1 mg per day or 2 mg EOD. Haven't researched this though. Just placing an order from PPL to try it out with blood tests. I suspect due to SHBG higher affinity for DHT , it frees up more T available for cells. Should have good effect in theory.

My thyroid is also accelerating a lot. Not sure whether it is the transdermal T or not.

 

[tasfarelel]

Just based from what I read out of Ray Peat's articles - prolonged exposure to even slightly raised estrogen will damage you. In this regard, I think that it doesn't matter that your T/DHT is proportionally still high enough to keep you from getting gyno, your 2x elevated estrogen will do its damage elsewhere.

 

[Michaelk3]

Estradiol is a marker of aromatization, not exactly the same as estrogen. You could start taking a few hundred IU of tocovit and a small dose of aspirin everyday and see if it helps decrease estradiol.

 

[Jremy25]

I think for DHT the maximum is 1 to 5mg and T is like 1 mg per day or 2 mg EOD. Haven't researched this though. Just placing an order from PPL to try it out with blood tests. I suspect due to SHBG higher affinity for DHT , it frees up more T available for cells. Should have good effect in theory.

My thyroid is also accelerating a lot. Not sure whether it is the transdermal T or not.

If that’s the case then I am dosing it way too high. Are you using estered T transdermally, which you can get away with eod dosing?

 

[Jremy25]

Just based from what I read out of Ray Peat's articles - prolonged exposure to even slightly raised estrogen will damage you. In this regard, I think that it doesn't matter that your T/DHT is proportionally still high enough to keep you from getting gyno, your 2x elevated estrogen will do its damage elsewhere.

I though it’s all about the ratio of free T + DHT : Estrogen. Isn’t DHT protective of Estrogen at the receptor level?

Would you suggest I add a small dose of aromasin twice weekly given my numbers?

 

[Jremy25]

Estradiol is a marker of aromatization, not exactly the same as estrogen. You could start taking a few hundred IU of tocovit and a small dose of aspirin everyday and see if it helps decrease estradiol.

Can I expect a noticeable drop from taking these or should I add in a very small amount of aromasin?

 

[Peatfan69]

Can I expect a noticeable drop from taking these or should I add in a very small amount of aromasin?

You are using the transdermal solution in DMSO right? How many drops are you doing daily? Another concern would be prolonged DMSO exposure as well....DMSO is a chelator

 

[PopSocket]

If that’s the case then I am dosing it way too high.

Those tiny 1-5mg DHT dosages are only as a 5AR boost while still relying on endogenous T production.

 

[Jremy25]

You are using the transdermal solution in DMSO right? How many drops are you doing daily? Another concern would be prolonged DMSO exposure as well....DMSO is a chelator

I’m using 1ml per day which is about 20 drops. Yes it is in DMSO.

 

[Jremy25]

Those tiny 1-5mg DHT dosages are only as a 5AR boost while still relying on endogenous T production.

That would be an interesting experiment to see if such a low dose can still maintain DHT levels above the reference range.

 

[Badger]

Estradiol is a marker of aromatization, not exactly the same as estrogen. You could start taking a few hundred IU of tocovit and a small dose of aspirin everyday and see if it helps decrease estradiol.

I have used chrysin cream, per suggestion of my functional medicine MD, to lower estradiol with only limited success. Had to switch to a prescription of Anastrozole, which works very well.

 

[Jremy25]

I have used chrysin cream, per suggestion of my functional medicine MD, to lower estradiol with only limited success. Had to switch to a prescription of Anastrozole, which works very well.

I heard anastrozole destroys lipids and joints. What dose are you using and did it crush your E2?

I imagine that aromasin or androsterone are much safer.

 

[Badger]

I heard anastrozole destroys lipids and joints. What dose are you using and did it crush your E2?

I imagine that aromasin or androsterone are much safer.

1 mg every 3-4 days. Definitely crushed the E2 in a few weeks, putting it from a highly risky zone to a completely safe zone, according to before and after blood tests. It has other bad side effects, but so far nothing bothering me. As with almost everything I take, I will stop it for a while to avoid risks like you mentioned. I've gotten E2 so low now, I might soon stop anastrozole and start up again with the chrysin cream to see if I can maintain the low number.

 

[PopSocket]

That would be an interesting experiment to see if such a low dose can still maintain DHT levels above the reference range.

I think roughly 1mg of DHT is synthesized from T per day in males. So a dose around 3mg-5mg should be a pretty good boost.

 

[Jremy25]

1 mg every 3-4 days. Definitely crushed the E2 in a few weeks, putting it from a highly risky zone to a completely safe zone, according to before and after blood tests. It has other bad side effects, but so far nothing bothering me. As with almost everything I take, I will stop it for a while to avoid risks like you mentioned. I've gotten E2 so low now, I might soon stop anastrozole and start up again with the chrysin cream to see if I can maintain the low number.

From what I’ve been told, 0.25mg of anastrozole twice per week is the usual dose for most so I’d expect you would’ve experienced an E2 crash.