Serotonin Is Involved In The Formation Of Traumatic Memories

[haidut]

The study makes several points. First, serotonin is involved in the formation of traumatic memories when under shock / stress. Second, memories do not appear to be stored in the synapses, which implies that in theory lost memories (like in patients with Alzheimers or concussions) can be restored in humans as long as the neurons are still alive. Last, traumatic memories may be a lot more difficult to erase once formed, which is not very good news for people with PTSD.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 121914.php
http://elifesciences.org/content/early/ ... Life.03896

"...They enhanced the snail's withdrawal reflex by giving it several mild electrical shocks on its tail. The enhancement lasts for days after a series of electrical shocks, which indicates the snail's long-term memory. Glanzman explained that the shock causes the hormone serotonin to be released in the snail's central nervous system."

I remember Ray wrote that when people are under chronic stress, initially they seem to develop incredibly sharp memory. he said that's due to serotonin, which the study seems to corroborate in a way. However, after sufficient time under stress has elapsed the memory forming starts to fail, and those people have a hard time forming even new memories (similar to the movie Memento).

 

[Blinkyrocket]

Great -_-

 

[Greg says]

I have complex PTSD (traumas over a long period of time from being in a situation I couldn't escape). My memory is very sharp. Especially my younger days. I can still taste tastes from being a child and feel feelings very strongly. And yes, my memory for everyday stuff is pretty poor. Maybe all that high cortisol erodes the brain.

I also got all the trimmings of high serotonin; learned helplessness, hyper vigilance, crave isolation, defensive, feel other peoples pain, strongly antiauthoritarian etc. Finding RP's work has transformed my perspective on the condition though, very interesting findings. Tianeptine helped more than anything I've tried. Interestingly my mums appendix burst when she had me (appendix has something to do with serotonin?). She also had ECT. The only time I've ever felt zero anxiety was when I took Phenibut. But that stuff ends up biting you in the ****. I felt so productive and at peace. I would love to feel this way through a safer method (GABA feelings).

I would love to know more about serotonin, trauma, PTSD, learned helplessness. There is some really interesting stuff on the forum.

 

[sugar daddy]

this is very interesting to me as I have been having memory issues for a while now

greg how much tianeptine do you take and were do you get it? and have you tried lysine?

 

[Anonymous]

You guys should try ondansetron. the stuff is great.

 

[Greg says]

Yeah, the guy I used to get it off has been banned from ebay so he's set up his own website http://nyles7.com/products/sodium-tianeptine-99-pure He told me his suppliers were being 'lent on' to cease production.

I take maybe 100mg a day. Have done for nearly 2 years. With breaks of a month or so just to check in with myself and see whats going on.

I really want to try Ondansetron. I'm in the UK, and I will get some online. The reports of migraines put me off. And the excipients are nasty.

I also have started on Lysine. Can't really say what i think so far.

 

[narouz]

Yeah, the guy I used to get it off has been banned from ebay so he's set up his own website http://nyles7.com/products/sodium-tianeptine-99-pure He told me his suppliers were being 'lent on' to cease production.

I take maybe 100mg a day. Have done for nearly 2 years. With breaks of a month or so just to check in with myself and see whats going on.

I really want to try Ondansetron. I'm in the UK, and I will get some online. The reports of migraines put me off. And the excipients are nasty.

I also have started on Lysine. Can't really say what i think so far.

Looks like it was not that he was banned,
just his selling there of tianeptine, I think.

 

[InChristAlone]

Cyproheptadine can also work since it works on serotonin receptors. It has really given me big improvements after the trauma of sleep deprivation and the stress of dealing with young kids. I tried going about 5 days w/o it and my restlessness at night came back with bad dreams relating to a traumatic emotional past.

 

[Greg says]

'Looks like it was not that he was banned,
just his selling there of tianeptine, I think.'

Yeah, I was wandering. There are still others selling Tianeptine (?)

 

[pboy]

if there was no authority selfish (sociopath) people...which is a huge portion of society...yea they claim ignorance, whatever...lol, think about how much less serotonin there would be. If people respected other peoples free choices, freedom, and trusted them to do the right job (which means what you do has to be worthy and necessary) there would be ..almost no serotonin. Self driven people, doing valuable things the right way. School alone is like...a profound trauma that most people never get over, or realize its a trauma. Combine with parents and their BS and 'rules' and 'helpful advice', and religion...its basically, people are all HIGHLY traumatized,...oh and, going to doctors from a young age and being violated and programmed. So basically every person...in most societies, is highly traumatized and it takes years to overcome if at all. Thank good for the internet...and my nuts. The people ive met and worked with that were home schooled have a profound different vibe that is extremely refreshing compared to the average robot...to someone like me its so refreshing, an actual human with a heart that can vibe back and forth. Now...yea, it makes total sense. Serotonin happens when your basic drives are suppressed, or your personal space or body or being is being defiled of its sacred nature....so translate that out to its endpoint. Who lived in a home, didn't go to school, has a job, that doesn't do those things? And you actually need that...or you'll always be subtly angry or irritated inside, your subconscious knows, your heart knows

 

[Greg says]

Cyproheptadine can also work since it works on serotonin receptors. It has really given me big improvements after the trauma of sleep deprivation and the stress of dealing with young kids. I tried going about 5 days w/o it and my restlessness at night came back with bad dreams relating to a traumatic emotional past.

I've tried Cypro. Knocked me out for sleeping but wasted the next day in a zombie state. Couldn't speak.

I still occasionally have nightmares relating to things 30+ years ago. Its strange how the body holds onto things (things that we would be better off forgetting). I can't recall where I read it, but serotonin was related to our 'defensive shield'. Known as Wei chi in Chinese medicine. I feel I have zero defensive shield. I feel very raw, open and thinned skinned. From feeling a burning sensation from EMFs to being effected by other peoples moods. I feel people are attracted to this and can sense it... I'm always being approached by strangers, whether to ask directions or within a few moments of meeting someone they are telling me personal details about their lives.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah people like to tell me personal details too, and I pick up on other's emotions too well. Being more of a sensitive person. Always been that way, more of a victim's mentality. I think Peat's work is really helping turn that around though. The zombie state starts going away the more you get used to the drug and you only need a very small amount for instance Peat told me he gets good effects from just .25 mg and he's right I feel it even at such a tiny amount.

 

[Greg says]

School alone is like...a profound trauma that most people never get over, or realize its a trauma. Combine with parents and their BS and 'rules' and 'helpful advice', and religion...its basically, people are all HIGHLY traumatized

school was crazy in the UK during the Thatcher years. high authoritarian and disciplined. the 'short, sharp' shock' approach. my school was all about survival. from teachers and other kids. 1 teacher is in gaol for being a paedo. I was terrified going to school and faked illness a lot. I got stuck in this pattern and now carry it over into adult life. I fear jobs and being stuck doing something I don't want to do. school was prison. it f**ked me up.

I'd like to do some LSD therapy.

 

[haidut]

School alone is like...a profound trauma that most people never get over, or realize its a trauma. Combine with parents and their BS and 'rules' and 'helpful advice', and religion...its basically, people are all HIGHLY traumatized

school was crazy in the UK during the Thatcher years. high authoritarian and disciplined. the 'short, sharp' shock' approach. my school was all about survival. from teachers and other kids. 1 teacher is in gaol for being a paedo. I was terrified going to school and faked illness a lot. I got stuck in this pattern and now carry it over into adult life. I fear jobs and being stuck doing something I don't want to do. school was prison. it f**ked me up.

I'd like to do some LSD therapy.

Lisuride is safer and without the hallucinogenic effects of LSD. It is also legal to import and possess, at least in the US. I think it's still available in Europe as an approved drug for Parkinson so for you might be even easier to get and use.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

What about just plain increasing CO2? CO2 antagonizes serotonin and does a bunch of good stuff too, amiright? On that note, is Thiamine HCL a good thiamine type?

 

[NathanK]

Very interesting post, Haidut. It does seem like forming new memories seem less as we get older, but I always assumed that was because we remember new experiences (a stressful state in itself) more and as we get older we just have seen a lot more and therefore less surprises us.

Greg, that seems like a very tianeptine high dose and for a very long time. I think the recommended dose is 12.5mg 3x/day and much over that does not bring much added benefit aside from super high doses (like 100mg which you take) bringing euphoria. Btw, I just received an order from powderity.com here In the states to try.

One thing that I have noticed among many people with trauma is that they tend to be very empathetic and or sensitive people. In todays world that trait is very stressful. Following Ray and his recommendations of lowering those stress hormones while increasing dopamine would be even more critical.

 

[Greg says]

Greg, that seems like a very tianeptine high dose and for a very long time. I think the recommended dose is 12.5mg 3x/day and much over that does not bring much added benefit aside from super high doses (like 100mg which you take) bringing euphoria. Btw, I just received an order from powderity.com here In the states to try.

One thing that I have noticed among many people with trauma is that they tend to be very empathetic and or sensitive people. In todays world that trait is very stressful. Following Ray and his recommendations of lowering those stress hormones while increasing dopamine would be even more critical.

Yeah, I have been mindful of Tianeptine. I do stop and check for withdrawal symptoms. There are some (at higher doses its a bit of an opioid for sure), maybe three days of poor sleep. Fine after a week. Nothing like coming off SSRIs which can be nasty. The lower dose does not really do much. I read a comment from powdercity..."At the recommended dose, I cannot say--for me--that it has any theraputic value, but at around the 100-120mg range daily, my life has changed over the past year." I can relate to this. With PTSD, the stress response is just so overwhelming and intense, you'll do anything to feel normal.

I am very empathetic, too much, its overwhelming. I always want to help people, to the point i put other peoples feelings before my own. People with PTSD become rescuers. Maybe because no one rescued them.

My PTSD came about from my empathy. I befriended a kid at school who was being bullied and beaten by his father. I sensed his pain. He went on to abuse me, mentally and physically, I let him (learned helplessness) and I couldn't tell my parents because my mum was depressed and I didn't want to cause her more pain. So I gave up and let it happen. This guy is in prison for attempted murder now, but I still empathise for him.

I'd like to know some solid ways to raise dopamine/ lower serotonin etc. Nothing comes close to Tianeptine. It literally decreases PTSD by 80%. I will try Ondesteron next, but its a bit pricey in UK. Lisuride is also not available I think.

 

[pboy]

I feel you greg, I suppose I was/kinda am the same way. When you realize...your own value, that you deserve what you are...as good as that is, you will be more careful with how you use your energy. A lot of people aren't worthy of it...focus on those that are, that have harmony in mind, or else you're leaking energy towards the same kind of forces that would cause in the future more PTSD style things

theres really only a few types of people...those absolutely hardened into their inertia, those with inertia that might have a slight chance to change, elevate, neutral people that will just do whatever those around them are or however they get built of paid, people that desire levity within but still don't know how to apply it or have consistency, and those that are full on about levity. Might be strange words to use, but you'll know what I mean, and eventually you can identify immediately. Don't waste energy on the gross people, its feeding your enemy in a sense. Serotonin is like basically moving towards the grave, and dopamine is moving towards a happy satisfied soul, that can eventually pass on in peace and happiness and a knowing. A lot of things people think is 'love' is not love at all, and its subtley toxic. Like...'oh pooor guy, here...let me comfort you..oh so sad' it might seem like love, but it isn't. Its more towards the grave than to heaven. Its promoting victim hood, which is a slap at there being ANY higher force or meaning to life or that people CAN change via changing themselves. You never want people that have a dragging energy, no matter what. You want people that create drive, hope in a tangible way, like direct course of action and understanding, that can actually coach you, be on your team of progression, not tranqulize you

Avoid serotonergic people, to where that's their wiring, they're pretty much.,.if over the age of 30, a hopeless case, or would only change if the whole society did and they were forced to

 

[narouz]

This whole dopamine thing,
I was just responding to "Elephanto" about this in another thread...

For some reason it seems to be a substance I haven't really focused on
here within the context of PeatDom.

I mean, I've probably been out to lunch on it,
but...does Peat talk much about increasing dopamine?

Seems like to me Peat mostly frames this area in terms of reducing serotonin and estrogen.
Then if you do that,
I guess one raises dopamine...yes?

But in terms of using direct tactics to raise dopamine,
I'm just kinda blanking of things Peat may've said.

Back before I discovered Peat,
I was into some health theorists who did see raising dopamine levels as a goal.
And so they would recommend herbs like mucuna pruriens.
(I ran through a lot of different theorists before Peat,
so having a hard time thinking where exactly I came upon such approaches.)

There were other herbs and supplements, too--just can't remember.
But the goal was to raise dopamine.

I just don't recall much along those lines with Peat.
I guess he does look at it as a general opposition:
Serotonin ~ Dopamine.
But seems like his general strategy is to block the increase of serotonin.

As I say, I've probably just fried a brain lobe or something....

 

[NathanK]

I am very empathetic, too much, its overwhelming. I always want to help people, to the point i put other peoples feelings before my own. People with PTSD become rescuers. Maybe because no one rescued them.

My PTSD came about from my empathy. I befriended a kid at school who was being bullied and beaten by his father. I sensed his pain. He went on to abuse me, mentally and physically, I let him (learned helplessness) and I couldn't tell my parents because my mum was depressed and I didn't want to cause her more pain. So I gave up and let it happen. This guy is in prison for attempted murder now, but I still empathise for him.

I'd like to know some solid ways to raise dopamine/ lower serotonin etc. Nothing comes close to Tianeptine. It literally decreases PTSD by 80%. I will try Ondesteron next, but its a bit pricey in UK. Lisuride is also not available I think.

Greg, yes, it's vital that you start to learn to create boundaries with people, life, and all relationships (friend, family, work, or therwise). Decide what you'll allow yourself to engage in. As Pboy said, knowing your value is very important to understanding this.

I've noticed in most people that emotions and drama can be as addictive as any substance. You just want to try to filter out the negative and focus on the positive ones that bring you joy. In a lot of ways, my work has been a two pronged approach in self development (professionally and personally). There is a psychological and physiological element and more than often "the mind follows the body". Keep following Ray to get the physical part down because without that then channeling the psychological emotions becomes a monumental task. This board is largely to focus on the physiological side of course.

Narouz, you're right, I don't think I've ever heard Ray focus explicitly on dopamine. It's just many of the methods and substances he refers via lowering serotonin and prolactin are ironically dopamine agonists so I guess it's implied, but not necessarily the "goal".

If I recall, in more extreme dopamine and catecholamine disorders, such as Parkinsons or even RLS/bruxism, taking substances like straight L-Dopa (a sulfur) or the "natural" version mucuna pruriens can be considered toxic (L-dopa will raise homocysteine in Parkinsons). Excess dopamine channels to adrenaline causing inflammation and ammonia. Ammonia can turn into toxic glutamate. Ammonia causes the brain to become too acidic, which slows down the COMT enzyme that breaks down dopamine AND adrenaline (and possibly enlarge the liver). So, in the end, by supplementing with just dopamine, particularly if you're operating with high adrenaline already, will lead to you having both high adrenaline and high dopamine because there is only so much COMT enzyme to break down both neurotransmitters and this leads your brain using even more methyl groups (contrary to RP wanting to lower methylation).

These are the reasons why Ray probably doesn't advocate "working on dopamine" because it will naturally occur if you lower dopamine antagonists like adrenaline, prolactin, estrogen, and serotonin. One thing of note with these prolactin antagonistic substances is that they can often over shoot the mark and lower dopamine as well as they can take out ALL of the catecholamines in the process. That's probably why a lot of those substances are meant, and emphasized, for short term use. It's best to do it as naturally as you can.