Serotonin Is Involved In The Formation Of Traumatic Memories

GAF

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I have had good results from L-dopa especially in the reduction of prolactin and probably serotonin. I don't think I have excess yet because I don't have an overwhelming urge to buy stuff on TV. I think pboy is correct about dopamine based on my personal experience to date. I have had no negatives.
 

narouz

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NathanK said:
Narouz, you're right, I don't think I've ever heard Ray focus explicitly on dopamine. It's just many of the methods and substances he refers via lowering serotonin and prolactin are ironically dopamine agonists so I guess it's implied, but not necessarily the "goal".

Nice to hear I'm not the only one coming up a little empty
when trying to think of stuff Peat has said/written focused on dopamine.
I mean, I'm sure he's mentioned it, talked about it, of course.
But he just doesn't seem to focus upon it at length,
as he does with serotonin or estrogen.

I'm trying to think if he has had any negative things to say about dopamine... :roll:
 
A

Anonymous

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There is no need to discuss dopamine. It is optimal for serotonin to be low and that is all that matters. If serotonin is low, then metabolism functions optimally and dopamine is properly regulated.
 

bailadora

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There are also non-pharm/drug/supplement methods for deali ng with PTSD. Look into emdr- can be very effective if you get the right practitioner. There are also other sensory techniques you can look up -such as tapping-that can be useful if you don't have resources for a practitioner.
 

NathanK

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narouz said:
I'm trying to think if he has had any negative things to say about dopamine... :roll:[/font]

The only thing I've heard him mention is "dopamine toxicity" in an Herb Doctors interview and that was partly because I had been looking for his thoughts on dopamine. Im guessing he was referring to dopamine metabolism I had mentioned or Parkinson's which doesn't metabolize it well either.
 

NathanK

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GAF said:
I have had good results from L-dopa especially in the reduction of prolactin and probably serotonin. I don't think I have excess yet because I don't have an overwhelming urge to buy stuff on TV. I think pboy is correct about dopamine based on my personal experience to date. I have had no negatives.

It's probably no big deal to supplement a little if youre healthy. Ray just doesn't go out of his way to make potentially risky claims

NathanK said:
narouz said:
I'm trying to think if he has had any negative things to say about dopamine... :roll:[/font]

The only thing I've heard him mention is "dopamine toxicity" in an Herb Doctors interview and that was partly because I had been looking for his thoughts on dopamine. Im guessing he was referring to dopamine metabolism I had mentioned or Parkinson's which doesn't metabolize it well either.
 
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haidut

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The term "catecholamine toxicity" is well-known in the medical field. One example of such toxicity would be to get a dopaminergic crisis or adrenergic storm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenergic_storm

Serotonin syndrome ironically causes the same symptoms as catecholamine toxicity but without affecting the heart. At least that's what medicine says. However, the catecholamine crises are a lot rarer than serotonin syndrome and unless you are abusing cocaine or some other illegal substance you probably have no reason to worry about dopamine toxicity.
 

NathanK

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haidut said:
The term "catecholamine toxicity" is well-known in the medical field. One example of such toxicity would be to get a dopaminergic crisis or adrenergic storm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrenergic_storm

Serotonin syndrome ironically causes the same symptoms as catecholamine toxicity but without affecting the heart. At least that's what medicine says. However, the catecholamine crises are a lot rarer than serotonin syndrome and unless you are abusing cocaine or some other illegal substance you probably have no reason to worry about dopamine toxicity.

Except that time I dosed 400mg caffeine today and created so much dopamine that my heart felt like it was jumping out of my chest :D
 

Greg says

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NathanK said:
Greg says said:
:hattip Thanks pboy + NathanK

Greg, there was some good information on tianeptine in on this page that I just ran across. I'm not sure why it works so well for some people and pretty benign for others. I'm about to try it out in the next couple weeks. viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4328&start=345#p60107

Thanks for that, I'll read that… yeah, from the moment I took it (wasn't expecting much) within 5 mins felt I so clear headed with minimal anxiety, optimissm and clear vision. But i have read about other people experiencing not so good feelings. My girlfriend also had a positive experience.

I totally agree with the concept of the 'mind follows the body', but my problem is my disordered thought process. I habitually think the worst case scenario and the inevitability of the worse case scenario causes my brain to crash (give up response/ learned helplessness). As RP mentioned once, I put up mental obstacles that aren't there. So I'm in a permanent stress response, which is just a normal feeling for me.

I've never had my serotonin measured, but I'm sure I do. Maybe tianeptine doesn't work so well for people with OK serotonin levels (?).
 

NathanK

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IDK, it's interesting that the other serotonin antagonists have little effect on you. I would start paring down what it actually is that is helping. I was reading more on it on the sub reddit and there's a lot of information there too. Could be something more to opiod receptors going on with you. If that were the case, maybe I'd look into trying some low dose naltrexone and see what happens. I think Ray recommends like 2-4mg for not much more than a week. It has some healing benefits as well.
 

tara

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Greg says said:
I befriended a kid at school who was being bullied and beaten by his father. I sensed his pain. He went on to abuse me, mentally and physically, I let him (learned helplessness) and I couldn't tell my parents because my mum was depressed and I didn't want to cause her more pain. So I gave up and let it happen. This guy is in prison for attempted murder now, but I still empathise for him.
I'm very glad you survived. :)
He can't get you anymore now.

I don't have lots of experience with TRE, but I gather it's been used quite a bit to help PTSD. I know that the few times I've really got shaking (not easy for me), I have felt hugely less stressed afterwards. TRE has a process you can learn to do to get trembling and shaking. Probably best to do it with someone guiding to begin with, i there is someone around where you are who is doing it.
Also anything you can think of that gets you laughing is good for draining old fear.
 

Kiwi

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pboy said:
I feel you greg, I suppose I was/kinda am the same way. When you realize...your own value, that you deserve what you are...as good as that is, you will be more careful with how you use your energy. A lot of people aren't worthy of it...focus on those that are, that have harmony in mind, or else you're leaking energy towards the same kind of forces that would cause in the future more PTSD style things

theres really only a few types of people...those absolutely hardened into their inertia, those with inertia that might have a slight chance to change, elevate, neutral people that will just do whatever those around them are or however they get built of paid, people that desire levity within but still don't know how to apply it or have consistency, and those that are full on about levity. Might be strange words to use, but you'll know what I mean, and eventually you can identify immediately. Don't waste energy on the gross people, its feeding your enemy in a sense. Serotonin is like basically moving towards the grave, and dopamine is moving towards a happy satisfied soul, that can eventually pass on in peace and happiness and a knowing. A lot of things people think is 'love' is not love at all, and its subtley toxic. Like...'oh pooor guy, here...let me comfort you..oh so sad' it might seem like love, but it isn't. Its more towards the grave than to heaven. Its promoting victim hood, which is a slap at there being ANY higher force or meaning to life or that people CAN change via changing themselves. You never want people that have a dragging energy, no matter what. You want people that create drive, hope in a tangible way, like direct course of action and understanding, that can actually coach you, be on your team of progression, not tranqulize you

Avoid serotonergic people, to where that's their wiring, they're pretty much.,.if over the age of 30, a hopeless case, or would only change if the whole society did and they were forced to

I can understand what you mean pboy, (Its Kiwifruit from Peatarian by the way), but I'd like you to elaborate on how you mean it a bit further. First, if you say "poor guy here let me comfort you" is not love in your opinion (I couldn't prevent myself from laughing reading that by the way), what is love in your opinion? Dont you think some people like to hear that and feel appreciated if hearing it, while people also like to say that because they can feel it helps people? And do you think that every human needs to be a 'force' or a 'creator' type of person or maybe just every person is different, and passive ones do not necessarily need to be 'serotonergic'? I think the most important thing about the environment is just that you should always be around people you feel appreciated, 'loved' by if you want to say it like this. People you just know they want you to be good and have good intentions. I don't think its necessary to be around people that are 'creator'-types or have a dominating, 'forcing' type of energy, I'd just avoid really toxic people and energy suckers besides 'bad' ones.

The longer you are with people that you feel appreciated with, the easier it is to naturally enfold and evolve. Often times you see shy people that can only be 'themselves' with friends and are much more open and feel more normal and better adjusted with them. Well, this a good example of what I mean. The more often people are in those environments, the happier and thus healthier they become, so people should try to be in those environments pretty much all the time.

I totally understand what you mean with serotonergic people and can definitely relate to it, but I don't think it has much to do with their energy or how 'driven' they feel. Maybe not every person does need to be a force or a 'creator' and there's just also 'passive' humans and I don't think you need/should be around 'coach' type of people only. There are active, high-energy 'good' people with good intentions, but also ones with bad ones and the same can be said to 'passive-low-energy' people (2 extremes, there are also passive people with high energy in certain things, so dont get me wrong) And I also think some people actually enjoy hanging out with more 'passive' ones, it's really all just about synergy. Well, that's my opinion on that matter.
 

pboy

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well to actually stay afloat in life, without letting things start sucking you under, it takes a focus, and a lot of energy, and you have to manage your lifestyle in a certain way...and since we all share the same space, air, water, environment, ect....if people become malaise and then get comforted in it, really they will eventually start having gunk build up in their life and it effects everyone around them. Love to me is cleaning up after yourself, and always be as fresh as possible with energy and focus, in a sense. Consolence for anything that would lead a person to harboring an energy that could effect the environment and others in a burdening way, is not love, its crabs in a bucket and ultimately leads to clicks and groups of one against the other, because eventually someones gonna get upset at those people for not holding down their life and spreading dirt of just a negative energy onto them, in which case, them and their whole group of consoling sloths will attempt to (serotnergically, estrogenically) gang up on the good person. Its not about people being coaches, and domineering, its about each person being capable, with an eye on how their actions are affecting everything around them, and being very mindful and heartful about it...taking into consideration equally how much what they do affects them as everything around them.

No one wants to be weak and passive, this doesn't mean you have to be a leader or domineering, it means independent and capable. If you console peoples bad habits or things they are doing that, whether they know it or not, are adding a heavy or dirty energy to those around them, it perpetuates their cycle of suffering dependence and negativity and they'll always be bitter and have a judging mind of anger within them looking for an enemy...deep down no one wants that, not them or anyone around them

I guess to sum it up...compliment people on what they do that is pleasant and admirable, rather than console what people to that is non admirable. And also...if someone is doing something that is leaking bad energy to that around them, if they seem like they know and want to change its easy to have compassion and help them and feel for them, but if they are selfish and bitter towards others, then that's when its a major problem and they deserve little to no aid
 

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haidut said:
Greg says said:
pboy said:
School alone is like...a profound trauma that most people never get over, or realize its a trauma. Combine with parents and their BS and 'rules' and 'helpful advice', and religion...its basically, people are all HIGHLY traumatized

school was crazy in the UK during the Thatcher years. high authoritarian and disciplined. the 'short, sharp' shock' approach. my school was all about survival. from teachers and other kids. 1 teacher is in gaol for being a paedo. I was terrified going to school and faked illness a lot. I got stuck in this pattern and now carry it over into adult life. I fear jobs and being stuck doing something I don't want to do. school was prison. it f**ked me up.

I'd like to do some LSD therapy.

Lisuride is safer and without the hallucinogenic effects of LSD. It is also legal to import and possess, at least in the US. I think it's still available in Europe as an approved drug for Parkinson so for you might be even easier to get and use.

Sorry for resurrecting this old thread. I think I can add some value to it :

I think what Greg calls "LSD therapy" has nothing to do with taking lisuride periodically for lowering serotonin/increasing dopamine.

LSD Therapy is taking some LSD and then, taking advantage of the dissolution of mental/emotional barriers, carry a psychotherapy session with a qualified therapist.

Of course this is forbidden but it was very revolutionary in the 50's and 60's before Timothy Leary ****88 it up all (or maybe not! ;) )
 

Makrosky

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Greg says said:
I've tried Cypro. Knocked me out for sleeping but wasted the next day in a zombie state. Couldn't speak.

I still occasionally have nightmares relating to things 30+ years ago. Its strange how the body holds onto things (things that we would be better off forgetting). I can't recall where I read it, but serotonin was related to our 'defensive shield'. Known as Wei chi in Chinese medicine. I feel I have zero defensive shield. I feel very raw, open and thinned skinned. From feeling a burning sensation from EMFs to being effected by other peoples moods. I feel people are attracted to this and can sense it... I'm always being approached by strangers, whether to ask directions or within a few moments of meeting someone they are telling me personal details about their lives.

Greg, I used to feel like that as well. Not the PTSD thing, just the parts i placed in bold. It was very uncomfortable but at the same time it allowed me to sense the world in many ways people don't even imagine exist. The connection with nature, the feeling of energies in places, the strong intuition, etc.

Anyway, it stopped completely after discontinuing any kind of herbal therapy, 5-htp, lots of vegetables, mini fasts (1 day max), aerobic exercise and the kind of "healthy" stuff. And more important after adding saturated fat and dairy to my diet which I was avoiding like the plague. And more calories.

That's my personal experience by the way.

It's better in a way, and worse in another. I really miss it sometimes. REALLY miss it. It reminds me that old Carl G. Jung phrase "you kill the symptom, and you lose the angel that comes with it".

I think it also depends on the environment you live in. It's very hard to be so sensitive in a competitive society, in a job where people try to rip you off, a big crowded polluted over-stimulating city, etc.

Edit:some clarifications and new thoughts
 

James_001

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Greg says said:
I have complex PTSD (traumas over a long period of time from being in a situation I couldn't escape). My memory is very sharp. Especially my younger days. I can still taste tastes from being a child and feel feelings very strongly. And yes, my memory for everyday stuff is pretty poor. Maybe all that high cortisol erodes the brain.

I also got all the trimmings of high serotonin; learned helplessness, hyper vigilance, crave isolation, defensive, feel other peoples pain, strongly antiauthoritarian etc. Finding RP's work has transformed my perspective on the condition though, very interesting findings. Tianeptine helped more than anything I've tried. Interestingly my mums appendix burst when she had me (appendix has something to do with serotonin?). She also had ECT. The only time I've ever felt zero anxiety was when I took Phenibut. But that stuff ends up biting you in the ****. I felt so productive and at peace. I would love to feel this way through a safer method (GABA feelings).

I would love to know more about serotonin, trauma, PTSD, learned helplessness. There is some really interesting stuff on the forum.

I thought anti-authoritarian is low serotonin?
 

James_001

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NathanK said:
Greg, yes, it's vital that you start to learn to create boundaries with people, life, and all relationships (friend, family, work, or therwise). Decide what you'll allow yourself to engage in. As Pboy said, knowing your value is very important to understanding this.

Can you explain more about "boundaries"

I have heard people talk about this but never really understood the concept
 

Makrosky

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James_001 said:
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NathanK said:
Greg, yes, it's vital that you start to learn to create boundaries with people, life, and all relationships (friend, family, work, or therwise). Decide what you'll allow yourself to engage in. As Pboy said, knowing your value is very important to understanding this.

Can you explain more about "boundaries"

I have heard people talk about this but never really understood the concept

I think he means being assertive. For example if you have a co-worker that always comes to your desk to rant about something, and you passively hear him just to be polite or a good coworker, but that puts you in a negative mind state every time... then be assertive and don't allow him to do that. You set up a boundary that can't be trespassed. Or people that always tries to put on you responsability that it's theirs, then cut that crap. Set the boundary.

You have to be strong at the beginning since people is used to use you and they will get upset or surprised. But will respect you more on the long run.

Of course that doesn't mean closing up completely like you are a psychopath. It means stablishing a hard limit.
 
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