Vinny

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
1,438
Age
51
Location
Sofia, Bulgaria
Ok, I bought some propranolol, 10 mg pills.
Any suggestions how, when and how much to use it? I also did not understand the connection with sleep from the study haidut posted.
 

Pointless

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2016
Messages
945
Ok, I bought some propranolol, 10 mg pills.
Any suggestions how, when and how much to use it? I also did not understand the connection with sleep from the study haidut posted.

From the OP:

“…A single 40-mg dose of oral propranolol, judiciously timed, constitutes an outside-the-box yet highly promising treatment for anxiety disorders, and perhaps for posttraumatic stress disorder as well, Marieke Soeter, PhD, said at the annual congress of the European College of Neuropsychopharmacology. “

From Wikipedia:


Contraindications[edit]
See also: Beta blocker § Contraindications
Propranolol may be contraindicated in people with:[29]

Adverse effects[edit]
See also: Beta blocker § Adverse effects
Propranolol should be used with caution in people with:[29]

 

miki14

Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2016
Messages
154
After using it for awhile I think this is accurate :(

Taking Propranolol is more of a short-term intervention, 2-3 days might be enough, one week should be the maximum I guess. Taking thyroid in the meantime is probably very helpful. Something dopaminergic helps, I eat some ginger with dinner, makes me a bit up-beat.
 

meatbag

Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Messages
1,771
Taking Propranolol is more of a short-term intervention, 2-3 days might be enough, one week should be the maximum I guess. Taking thyroid in the meantime is probably very helpful. Something dopaminergic helps, I eat some ginger with dinner, makes me a bit up-beat.
yeah I think most of these things like propranolol, cypro, mirtazpine are more useful as acute therapies. They seem to cause some problems when used chronically -_-

Nice, yeah ginger ale usually makes me feel quite chipper :joyful:
 

Soren

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
1,648
Would cardenosine possibly have any application to acutely lower adrenaline in the way described in this study? I know some people have had some success with Inosine but i can't find any information on the dose and I also don't know if the other ingredients in it would help.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
19,798
Location
USA / Europe
Would cardenosine possibly have any application to acutely lower adrenaline in the way described in this study? I know some people have had some success with Inosine but i can't find any information on the dose and I also don't know if the other ingredients in it would help.

It may, but I don't have any studies to back it up. As you said, the studies on inosine directly deactivating adrenaline is all that is available about that ingredient.
 

aguineapig

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
159
I would be curious to read any conjectures as to how/if beta blockers would be useful in the context of complex PTSD and the tangled web of triggers and symptoms that accompany decades of inescapable family and work stress, as opposed to singular/acute stresses.
 

bionicheart

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
142
As someone who was prescribed beta-blockers at a young age (21) and took for 6 years.... I have lots of experience with carvedilol and propranolol. took carvedilol for the majority of the time--i had low blood pressure, but it eliminated all of my physical anxiety symptoms! I've suffered from anxiety for so long and that drug kept me calm and immune to mean people. I stopped taking them--thinking it was bad in the long-run (prescribed to prevent abnormal rhythms) but I've been struggling ever since I got off it... propranolol prevented headaches and works differently than carvedilol but i'm not sure how... if anyone has any light they could share on this or their experiences that would be awesome!
 

Vinny

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
1,438
Age
51
Location
Sofia, Bulgaria
As someone who was prescribed beta-blockers at a young age (21) and took for 6 years.... I have lots of experience with carvedilol and propranolol. took carvedilol for the majority of the time--i had low blood pressure, but it eliminated all of my physical anxiety symptoms! I've suffered from anxiety for so long and that drug kept me calm and immune to mean people. I stopped taking them--thinking it was bad in the long-run (prescribed to prevent abnormal rhythms) but I've been struggling ever since I got off it... propranolol prevented headaches and works differently than carvedilol but i'm not sure how... if anyone has any light they could share on this or their experiences that would be awesome!
I took propranolol a few times. Up to 80 mg per time. Felt nothing. May be I`ll try higher doses in the future.
 

bionicheart

Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
142
I took propranolol a few times. Up to 80 mg per time. Felt nothing. May be I`ll try higher doses in the future.
you didn't even feel sleepy?
I would keep an eye on your blood pressure if you're taking any amount over 10mg for the first time. 80mg would probably knock me out--but dosage will vary when you factor in height/weight.
I would be super cautious if you take more than 80mg in one sitting, and wouldn't recommend it... but if you don't have anxiety or, you're currently taking anti-anxiety medication, you probably won't "feel" anything. Like when I take it, it completely eliminates hand tremors, lowers my heart rate, and I'm physically more calm. It's not like taking a benzo kind of calm. Beta-blockers slow down your physical stress response, and dims your "fight or flight" mode.

(Also, DO NOT take beta-blockers if you're taking any stimulants/medication for ADD, narcolepsy, etc.. basically anything chemically manufactured that increases your heartrate or raises your blood pressure--mainly because the danger of this combo is-- it strains your heart as the two drugs have opposing actions, so it's counterproductive to take together.)
 

Vinny

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
1,438
Age
51
Location
Sofia, Bulgaria
you didn't even feel sleepy?
No, not at all. And currently not taking anti-anxiety medication. Strange, but generally I`m a bad responder, as it seems, to supplements and medications. Will not experiment exceeding the dose further. A little disappointed it didn`t work for me after the good study, plus it`s cheap and I can get it without prescription here, but I already noticed several times, that research results do not apply to me.
 

aguineapig

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
159
I came across this "study" (meta analysis) reading into propranolol for situational anxiety. A true gem!

Propranolol for the treatment of anxiety disorders: Systematic review and meta-analysis

This sentence;

"These meta-analyses found no statistically significant differences between the efficacy of propranolol and benzodiazepines regarding the short-term treatment of panic disorder with or without agoraphobia."

Was followed by this one;

"In conclusion, the quality of evidence for the efficacy of propranolol at present is insufficient to support the routine use of propranolol in the treatment of any of the anxiety disorders."

and later on, this one (shills gotta shill);

"Therefore, it would seem most reasonable not to divert from current treatment guidelines recommending SSRIs as the first-line medication for panic disorder (Baldwin et al., 2014) until robust data regarding the comparative efficacy and tolerability of propranolol versus SSRIs become available."

I actually started chuckling. Maybe I am exceedingly stupid, but it seems like right before dismissing its usefulness, it declared comparable effect to benzos (which are commonly prescribed for controlling acute symptoms and are addictive and can ruin your life)?
 

Sativa

Member
Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
400
@Makrosky @James b @ecstatichamster @KellyP
If adrenaline is indeed the culprit, then the drug clonidine should also work. Ray calls it "the antistress drug" in one of his articles and even though it lowers adrenaline levels instead of blocking the beta receptors, the effects should be the same.
  • Since agmatine has been identified as a clonidine displacing substance (CDS), the aim of this study was to investigate whether agmatine can mimic CDS‐induced cardiovascular reactions in organ bath experiments, pithed spontaneously hypertensive rats (SHR) and anaesthetized SHR.
  • Intravenously‐administered agmatine significantly reduced the blood pressure and heart rate of anaesthetized SHR at doses higher than 1 and 3mg/kg−1, respectively.
  • Agmatine reduces noradrenaline release in pithed SHR while α2‐adrenoceptors are irreversibly blocked with phenoxybenzamine, but not while I1‐binding sites are selectively blocked with AGN192403. This suggests that agmatine may modulate noradrenaline release in the same way that clonidine does, i.e. via imidazoline binding sites; this involves a reduction in sympathetic tone which in turn reduces blood pressure and heart rate.
source: BPS Publications

Here's a link to my thread on Agmatine - A 'Peaty' Substance With Potential?
 

Soren

Member
Forum Supporter
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
1,648
Could this potentially be a tool to help people deal with grief?
 

Yody

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
82
I got a wonderful idea while reading through this thread:

Theoretically, psychedelics with propranolol may allow one to simultaneously summon and destroy some of their darkest demons.

Just a thought
 

GAF

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Messages
789
Age
67
Location
Dallas Texas
“…A single 40-mg dose of oral propranolol, judiciously timed, constitutes an outside-the-box yet highly promising treatment for anxiety disorders, and perhaps for posttraumatic stress disorder as well, Marieke Soeter, PhD, said at the annual congress of the European College of Neuropsychopharmacology. “

The protocol I think is to recall the bad memory while you’re on the propanolol and really feel it with terrible emotion. Then you need to go to bed and sleep. That’s really it.

The memory remains but the emotional content has drained.

I had the opportunity perform this procedure on a 48 yr old female having HORRIBLE meltdowns, amygdala hijacks, PTSD memories about 2 weeks ago. These meltdowns had been going on for months. Specific situations would trigger a flood of memories, including domestic violence that occurred 18 months ago.

I brought her to my house after she was stuck parked at a convenience store having giant meltdown for an hour and the meltdown not stopping so she could drive.

I had filched a few propranolol from my hospice Mom's stockpile and just happened to still have them.

I read portions of this thread to her and told her there was no chance it would not work and that when she woke up, the meltdowns would never happen again.

I got her some salty soup and made her warm and comfy in the bed and she konked out.

In the morning she was emotionally much better. She was always a very strong woman physically and emotionally, full of magical enthusiasm for life.

Two weeks later and no meltdowns, she is moving forward with her life and gaining more confidence the past is just the past. She is taking action and focusing on an open future.

She also now knows that if there is a relapse, we know for sure how to fix the problem, so it is no big deal. I have a a few more 40mg tablets.

Bottom Line: This experiment is worth trying if the situation comes your way.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom