Seborrheic Dermatitis Thread

[ExCarniv]

Hey Lecarpeton is your SD still, miraculously, gone?

Not Lecarpeton, but mine gone by supplementing 400 mg of elemental Magnesium and 1 liter of orange juice daily.

Before that I barely got any vitamin c and of course I was Magnesium deficient since I used to have lot of cramping legs at night.

I had SD for decades, I think dropping PUFAs had some impact too.

 

[Lecarpetron]

Hey Lecarpeton is your SD still, miraculously, gone?

It did eventually return but with nowhere near the severity. And it took months to return that small amount.

 

[YUPEATER]

It did eventually return but with nowhere near the severity. And it took months to return that small amount.

Good to know. I will try amoxicillin if Nizoral doesn’t get rid of it. Thanks Lecarpetron

 

[Korven]

Diluted honey applied every other day for 3 hours cleared up SD in this study Therapeutic and prophylactic effects of crude honey on chronic seborrheic dermatitis and dandruff. - PubMed - NCBI

I have had good results with using honey as a cleanser/face mask for my fungal acne

 

[YUPEATER]

Diluted honey applied every other day for 3 hours cleared up SD in this study Therapeutic and prophylactic effects of crude honey on chronic seborrheic dermatitis and dandruff. - PubMed - NCBI

I have had good results with using honey as a cleanser/face mask for my fungal acne

Good tip. I will try this. Thanks

 

[yerrag]

I'll continue on it for another month at least, but hoping I can get minocycline to replace it with. I think it's helpful to take it as I take proteolytic enzymes.

I'm monitoring improvements on my left knee. While I can walk up a steep ladder with no pain anymore, I can still feel pain on my left knee when I attempt to get up from a sitting position using my left foot. I have no problem doing the same using my right foot.

Sorry, I got mixed up with the arthritis thread but I'm continuing on with this also in the hope my seborrheic dermatitis condition can be totally fixed.
s
Here's CLASH's post on minocycline, which I'm still going through, but it answers questions on dosage. It's interesting that treatment is intermittent instead of sustained, in addition to being low-dosage and long term:

Danny Roddy's New Video On Baldness Is Very Interesting

My seborrheic dermatitis (SD)came back with a vengeance. But the good news is that it's because I didn't continue with low-dose doxy (40mg/day). I also think that had I stayed on low-dose doxy, intermittently, I would have kept SD off my scalp. I think this is an immune complex issue, where antigens and antibodies form a complex, and this complex has some downstream effects.

In my case, the effect is manifested 3 ways - increased high blood pressure, arthritis, and seborrheic dermatitis. Therefore, it was no coincidence that I began to experience these three at close proximity to each other. I couldn't make the connection then, at around 2000. The complex would bind to my glomerular capillaries, and this would be the cause of my hypertension, as well as increased serum creatinine due to kidney filtration being impaired by the complex. Before I noticed my increased blood pressure, I was already starting to experience SD, but back then I kept thinking it was related to a 10-day survival backpacking trip I made with friends in the Smokey Mountains. And in one winter morning jog uphill near University of Cincinnati, I had this left knee pain, and ever since it stayed with me until only recently.

I believe the antigen involved is endotoxin, and the endotoxin came from a chronic periodontal issue that was not discovered until last year. But even with the source of the infection finally eliminated, I continue to suffer from its effects, in the form of endotoxin (and possibly, dormant bacteria) that had become embedded in my vasculature.

I could only speculate as to how low-dose doxy helped with clearing my scalp of SD. It helps to know that I experienced an SD relapse when I was on a higher dose doxycycline at 200mg/day. This makes me think that slow and steady works well than something that would overwhelm. This is yet another example of more not being better, another classic case of Paracelsius "the dose makes the poison," and it makes me finally understand why Ray Peat would use low-dose doxycycline. And even at low dosage, he would only do it intermittently.

Given that my vasculature has plaque, and that my plaque (I say 'my' as I don't want to say this applies to all plaque, given my context) harbors dormant bacteria and endotoxin, and that the plaque goes through a regular erosion where slowly bacteria and endotoxins are released, a steady stream of immune complex particles is produced, which finds its way to the scalp (and to my kidneys, and my left knee) and causes an inflammatory response. But I'm not certain though if it's the immuno complex that's causing the inflammatory response. It could very well be that the complex causes only my kidneys to be clogged by the complexes, but the arthritis and the SD could be more the result of bacteria producing an inflammatory response, and this manifests as arthritic pain and SD.

If I used low-dose doxy, it would be strong enough to keep bacteria low enough to not cause an inflammatory response. Bacteria would be killed and endotoxin would be released as a result, but at the rate endotoxin is being released, it does not overwhelm the body's defenses, such that inflammatory action is minimized. In this way, arthritic pain is not felt, and SD is not manifested. The response is low-level enough to go beneath the radar of pain.

But if I shifted the dose of doxy to 200mg from 40mg/day, more bacteria would be killed and more endotoxin would be released. This endotoxin load would be large enough and it would cause enough inflammatory activity that would manifest as arthritic pain and the appearance of SD in the scalp.

So, I would suggest going with about 2 months of low dose doxy (as I did) therapeutically and then throttling down to having an intermittent use of doxy. I'm not sure how to use doxy intermittently, is it about using it 3 days straight every week? @ecstatichamster how would you go about it?

I also think that it would help to also take a suitable proteolytic enzyme blend along with taking doxycycline. Since I have used ZymEssence made by Dr. Wong and have found it very helpful, I think it would be suitable. A bottle of it would be sufficient, as it contains enough to last for 2 months at a rate of use of 3 capsules a day. The blend is strong enough while being gentle as it's a formulation that's well-balanced. I say this from my experience in trying out serrapeptidase at a high dose. A day of using 3 capsules of serra capsules that pack a punch of 120,000 SUs really got my immune system too worked up - not good for what I'm trying to do.

I think it's best though to just use doxycyline first without any enzymes. I just like to keep things simple and not add too many variables if the benefits are marginal or iffy especially.

 

[foodandtheworld]

Just going to quote one of my previous posts in case it helps people:

"I don't know if what I had was dandruff or "seborrheic dermatitis" but I was recently having some thick yellow waxy flakes on the top of my scalp (they looked like the 2nd picture here: Seborrheic dermatitis - Symptoms and causes ). Eating more canned oysters seemed to have gotten rid of it. Maybe I was very deficient in zinc. I had one can a day for a week and haven't noticed those flakes that I used to see on the top of my scalp."
How Often Should I Eat Liver To Remedy Dandruff

I haven't had a recurrence of those thick yellow flakes since then.

 

[yerrag]

Just going to quote one of my previous posts in case it helps people:

"I don't know if what I had was dandruff or "seborrheic dermatitis" but I was recently having some thick yellow waxy flakes on the top of my scalp (they looked like the 2nd picture here: Seborrheic dermatitis - Symptoms and causes ). Eating more canned oysters seemed to have gotten rid of it. Maybe I was very deficient in zinc. I had one can a day for a week and haven't noticed those flakes that I used to see on the top of my scalp."
How Often Should I Eat Liver To Remedy Dandruff

I haven't had a recurrence of those thick yellow flakes since then.

That's quite plausible as zinc is needed for alkaline phosphatase, and alkaline phosphatase can destroy endotoxins and keep it from translocating from the gut. Increased fat intake stimulates production of alkaline phosphate, as I learned from a member (my memory is failing me like Biden forgetting the name of his boss - endotoxin!)

 

[ecstatichamster]

I use around 30mg every day or so @yerrag

 

[yerrag]

I use around 30mg every day or so @yerrag

Do you use it continually or intermittently? I have the impression Ray uses low dose 3 continuous days every week.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Do you use it continually or intermittently? I have the impression Ray uses low dose 3 continuous days every week.

Continuous. Then I stop for a bit.

 

[yerrag]

Continuous. Then I stop for a bit.

Thanks.

I hope you're taking it not in a liquid preparation. This is common for doxycycline for pets, but not for humans. I had taken low-dose doxy for 2 months. I happened to see my dentist, and he noticed erosion of enamel on my teeth. It took awhile for me to figure it out. I happened upon a link about all antibiotics, and saw that doxycycline has contraindications for calcium. As I was mixing the syrup with a cup of water to drink it, it was getting the doxy to touch my teeth. That could very well explain the erosion of enamel.

Next time around, I should take it as a syrup, and avoid touching teeth, and then follow up with water after swallowing the syrup.

 

[yerrag]

I wonder if this recommendation by the American Association of Dermatology on using doxycyline (and minocycline) for acnes can just be as effective for some cases of seborrheic dermatitis. In it, low-dose doxycycline usage (20-40mg/day) is said to be as effective and they recommend use to the shortest time possible, but I'm comforted when they qualify that by stating the time frame as 3 months. They recommend it should be used with topical retinoid and BP (don't know what that is). But I'm thinking that instead, I can accompany its use with ZymEssence, an oral systemic enzyme.

Systemic antibiotics: Recommendations | American Academy of Dermatology

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thanks.

I hope you're taking it not in a liquid preparation. This is common for doxycycline for pets, but not for humans. I had taken low-dose doxy for 2 months. I happened to see my dentist, and he noticed erosion of enamel on my teeth. It took awhile for me to figure it out. I happened upon a link about all antibiotics, and saw that doxycycline has contraindications for calcium. As I was mixing the syrup with a cup of water to drink it, it was getting the doxy to touch my teeth. That could very well explain the erosion of enamel.

Next time around, I should take it as a syrup, and avoid touching teeth, and then follow up with water after swallowing the syrup.

I carry a 500mg capsule and periodically put a bit on some food. It lasts 12 or 14 days of use.

 

[yerrag]

I carry a 500mg capsule and periodically put a bit on some food. It lasts 12 or 14 days of use.

I see. Avoid contact with teeth. Check your teeth to see if there are signs of enamel erosion near the gums.

 

[ecstatichamster]

No signs. The antibiotic is wrapped in food for the most part.

 

[yerrag]

No signs. The antibiotic is wrapped in food for the most part.

That's a good way of taking it, avoiding direct contact with teeth.

 

[yerrag]

My seborrheic dermatitis (SD)came back with a vengeance. But the good news is that it's because I didn't continue with low-dose doxy (40mg/day). I also think that had I stayed on low-dose doxy, intermittently, I would have kept SD off my scalp. I think this is an immune complex issue, where antigens and antibodies form a complex, and this complex has some downstream effects.

In my case, the effect is manifested 3 ways - increased high blood pressure, arthritis, and seborrheic dermatitis. Therefore, it was no coincidence that I began to experience these three at close proximity to each other. I couldn't make the connection then, at around 2000. The complex would bind to my glomerular capillaries, and this would be the cause of my hypertension, as well as increased serum creatinine due to kidney filtration being impaired by the complex. Before I noticed my increased blood pressure, I was already starting to experience SD, but back then I kept thinking it was related to a 10-day survival backpacking trip I made with friends in the Smokey Mountains. And in one winter morning jog uphill near University of Cincinnati, I had this left knee pain, and ever since it stayed with me until only recently.

I believe the antigen involved is endotoxin, and the endotoxin came from a chronic periodontal issue that was not discovered until last year. But even with the source of the infection finally eliminated, I continue to suffer from its effects, in the form of endotoxin (and possibly, dormant bacteria) that had become embedded in my vasculature.

I could only speculate as to how low-dose doxy helped with clearing my scalp of SD. It helps to know that I experienced an SD relapse when I was on a higher dose doxycycline at 200mg/day. This makes me think that slow and steady works well than something that would overwhelm. This is yet another example of more not being better, another classic case of Paracelsius "the dose makes the poison," and it makes me finally understand why Ray Peat would use low-dose doxycycline. And even at low dosage, he would only do it intermittently.

Given that my vasculature has plaque, and that my plaque (I say 'my' as I don't want to say this applies to all plaque, given my context) harbors dormant bacteria and endotoxin, and that the plaque goes through a regular erosion where slowly bacteria and endotoxins are released, a steady stream of immune complex particles is produced, which finds its way to the scalp (and to my kidneys, and my left knee) and causes an inflammatory response. But I'm not certain though if it's the immuno complex that's causing the inflammatory response. It could very well be that the complex causes only my kidneys to be clogged by the complexes, but the arthritis and the SD could be more the result of bacteria producing an inflammatory response, and this manifests as arthritic pain and SD.

If I used low-dose doxy, it would be strong enough to keep bacteria low enough to not cause an inflammatory response. Bacteria would be killed and endotoxin would be released as a result, but at the rate endotoxin is being released, it does not overwhelm the body's defenses, such that inflammatory action is minimized. In this way, arthritic pain is not felt, and SD is not manifested. The response is low-level enough to go beneath the radar of pain.

But if I shifted the dose of doxy to 200mg from 40mg/day, more bacteria would be killed and more endotoxin would be released. This endotoxin load would be large enough and it would cause enough inflammatory activity that would manifest as arthritic pain and the appearance of SD in the scalp.

So, I would suggest going with about 2 months of low dose doxy (as I did) therapeutically and then throttling down to having an intermittent use of doxy. I'm not sure how to use doxy intermittently, is it about using it 3 days straight every week? @ecstatichamster how would you go about it?

I also think that it would help to also take a suitable proteolytic enzyme blend along with taking doxycycline. Since I have used ZymEssence made by Dr. Wong and have found it very helpful, I think it would be suitable. A bottle of it would be sufficient, as it contains enough to last for 2 months at a rate of use of 3 capsules a day. The blend is strong enough while being gentle as it's a formulation that's well-balanced. I say this from my experience in trying out serrapeptidase at a high dose. A day of using 3 capsules of serra capsules that pack a punch of 120,000 SUs really got my immune system too worked up - not good for what I'm trying to do.

I think it's best though to just use doxycyline first without any enzymes. I just like to keep things simple and not add too many variables if the benefits are marginal or iffy especially.

In this article, A letter to the ME/CFS research community (+ doctors, + patients) | Microbe Minded, shared by Llight, I may have found the answer to my question as to why some chronic bacterial infections are associated with seborrheic dermatitis, and it explains why my use of doxycycline over a period of a month got my seborrheic dermatitis to disappear (at least for the time I was on it). In my opinion, this has a lot to do with the recently discovered human CNS lymphatic system (see attached illustration). I believe that the wastes from the antigen-antibody interaction involving the innate immune system and the bacteria is being excreted through the scalp, and this excretion in expressed as flakes on the scalp and called seborrheic dermatitis:

...the recent discovery of the human CNS lymphatic system strengthens the likelihood that microbes easily traffic in/out of brain tissue.

The recently discovered CNS lymphatic system
connects the body to the brain.

 

[brix]

@yerrag so your sebhorreic dermatitis came back after stopping doxy?

I was on minocycline for a few weeks but not sure if it helped me or not. Might revisit.

 

[yerrag]

@yerrag so your sebhorreic dermatitis came back after stopping doxy?

I was on minocycline for a few weeks but not sure if it helped me or not. Might revisit.

Yes, it came back after I stopped.

I wasn't really paying attention nor intending to fix my sb, so I don't really know when my sb disappeared. I just noticed it one day and as I looked back, it had to be my intake of doxy at 2x20mg/day for 50 days that did it. It was 50 days because that's when the bottle was used up.

I haven't used mino but I think it could be as effective or better. I think the dosage with mino can be lower to minimize on purported side effects from it.