Low Toxin Supplements PSA: DO NOT START ON NIACIN IF YOU ARE STILL LIVING A TOXIC LIFESTYLE

[charlie]

I actually found it weirdly pleasant,

Yes, that is the body coming alive.

Around 5am, this morning I woke up feeling AWFUL. I had horrible stomach cramps and nausea and honestly felt like death. I wondered if I’d rather go through my hard 20 hour labor again, with my last child, than feel how I felt. I vomited dark green bile around 20 times and couldn’t keep down anything, not even water. I finally was able to fall asleep for a bit and now it’s 2:30 pm and though I still feel pretty bad, I feel much better and the vomiting has stopped. Do you think this is due to the niacin and is some type of detox? I plan to stop the niacin and just focus on the diet for a while, but I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced something like this. The niacin is the only supplement I’ve been taking.

Wowsers, something really special is happening here at the forum. I have been watching the low toxin groups for 5 years now and I have not seen the speed and level of healing anywhere close to what is happening here. It is truly incredible to watch. Yes, that was a detox event and you just purged a ton of poison from your body. Personally, I would get some binders going, charcoal, soluble fiber, etc to mop things up. And if it were me, I would stay on very low dose Niacin for a while if tolerated. You are well on your way to Restoration.

 

[Ledo]

While I agree with vitamin a and copper being toxic without a doubt. I still believe that something happened in the past 20 years that messed up our bodies from being able to metabolize it correctly rather than them actually being toxins. I personally am way more sensitive since covid for some reason. I got sick in 2022 and every since then cheese, anything with gluten or added folic acid really mess me up. Nasal congestion off and on as well.

Hi matt, yes something definitely seems different in the last 20 years. An accumulative toxic soup of various increasingly nasty substances and frequencies that are taking a toll not to mention the mind games and psycho social stress meant to push us over the edge. But I don't think that lets the good old days off the hook regarding vitamin A and copper. Grant G's first book and its account of Charles Darwin is really an eye opening 19th century account of these poison being with us along time. He and others have more accounts too.

Detoxing was never given its due in the Peat framework and certainly not by Ray himself who seemed to imply the body will just handle it after you take the hormones which was his real catch all. Yes its going to be the other side of the bio-energetic approach after this is all said and done with "detoxing" being the mandatory 21st century skill.

 

[lilrawhoney]

Yes, that is the body coming alive.

Wowsers, something really special is happening here at the forum. I have been watching the low toxin groups for 5 years now and I have not seen the speed and level of healing anywhere close to what is happening here. It is truly incredible to watch. Yes, that was a detox event and you just purged a ton of poison from your body. Personally, I would get some binders going, charcoal, soluble fiber, etc to mop things up. And if it were me, I would stay on very low dose Niacin for a while if tolerated. You are well on your way to Restoration.

Thank you, Charlie! That definitely makes me feel better. Intuitively it felt like I was detoxing, which definitely brought me comfort through the awful purging symptoms. My two youngest have also been having tons of dark green bowel movements all week.

Over the past few years I feel like I lost my ability to get sick, which means I wasn’t purging at all. Now I feel like I’m purging so much.

I didn’t see any ill effects from niacin at 50mg so maybe I’ll stick to that. I did take activated charcoal today as well.

 

[charlie]

Over the past few years I feel like I lost my ability to get sick, which means I wasn’t purging at all.

Exactly!

which definitely brought me comfort through the awful purging symptoms

It can be quite a ride at times. I had mentioned earlier at first for some people it seems the body is just like:

hey look at me, no more toxins coming in! Wooohooo, open the flood gates!!

And then the body gets smarter and slows things down to a more manageable level. Either way you and your kiddos are doing great!

 

[Makrosky]

Hoffer was giving his patients IIRC up to... 3g/day of Niacin? Or was it 1g? Can't remember.
His patients being schizophreniacs etc. probably had a much much worse level of intoxication of heavy metals, etc.
Yet he still saw tremendous improvements.
I ordered some and will start with low doses and report my results. Excited to finally test this substance after 15 years of knowing about it and never trying it.

 

[mosaic01]

Hoffer was giving his patients IIRC up to... 3g/day of Niacin? Or was it 1g? Can't remember.

Up to around 100g of niacin, and up to 4.5g of niacinamide.

But starting dose was 1.5g a day and then he told patients to increase until nausea sets in, then go to previous dose. Niacin dose was usually 3-10g per day.

 

[taralynne]

Up to around 100g of niacin, and up to 4.5g of niacinamide.

But starting dose was 1.5g a day and then he told patients to increase until nausea sets in, then go to previous dose. Niacin dose was usually 3-10g per day.

I don't think Dr. Hoffer's patients followed a particular diet and they still benefitted greatly from the higher doses. Do we know why it is being recommended to only use a low dose if one is still taking in some toxins?

 

[Richiebogie]

what 500 detox pathways does niacin open?

That would be a great question for trivia night!

I am guessing the main detox pathways are:

1) breath exhaled from lungs via nostrils
2) breath exhaled from lungs via mouth
3) defecation from food on its first pass through the digestive tract
4) urination via kidneys
5) defecation of toxic bile products sent from the liver to the duodenum
6) sweat from skin
7) lymph node waste + sweat expelled from armpits
8) lymph node waste + sweat expelled from groin
9) lymph node waste expelled from nostrils
10) lymph node waste from tonsils expelled via defecation
11) lymph node waste expelled from nose
12) oils and sweat expelled from ears
13) vomit from toxic bile products sent from the liver to the duodenum
14) lymph node waste from tonsils expelled from mouth
15) cough expelling waste from lungs into digestive tract to defecation
16) cough expelling waste from lungs and out mouth

Some of these appear as symptoms previously associated with flu.

Possibly asthma too!

 

[mosaic01]

I don't think Dr. Hoffer's patients followed a particular diet and they still benefitted greatly from the higher doses. Do we know why it is being recommended to only use a low dose if one is still taking in some toxins?

Hoffer's treatment was still allopathic in nature, in the sense that his treatment regimen just suppressed symptoms. He said once the patients stopped niacin, all symptoms came back. It was a treatment for life. He did not make his patients detox.

Hoffer had his patients on a sugar-free protein-rich diet, focusing on meat, complex carbs, and vegetables.

Taking niacin with the goal to detox only makes sense when not ingesting toxins anymore, but niacin is usually tolerated well independent of diet.

 

[taralynne]

Hoffer's treatment was still allopathic in nature, in the sense that his treatment regimen just suppressed symptoms. He said once the patients stopped niacin, all symptoms came back. It was a treatment for life. He did not make his patients detox.

Hoffer had his patients on a sugar-free protein-rich diet, focusing on meat, complex carbs, and vegetables.

Taking niacin with the goal to detox only makes sense when not ingesting toxins anymore, but niacin is usually tolerated well independent of diet.

appreciate the clarification :)

 

[jay123]

Niacin is life, so it supports every single detox pathway in the body. It is estimated that there are over 500 detox pathways in the body although an exact number is not known. From my personal experience when taking Niacin the toxins are literally oozing out of every pore and bodily fluid I have.

If you are in-toxing while taking Niacin it can make things really uncomfortable for a person due to heavy detoxing that can happen and akin to trying to swim upstream. This person will then say, "oh boy, that Niacin is some bad stuff". When in fact, it was the constant bombardment of toxins that the Niacin was trying to remove that was the issue.

Niacin is life, plain and simple. It is truly a remarkable substance that needs to be respected.

I have a family member who is super toxic, she wont change her diet and wont clean up her life. However, she wants to take a pill. We all have those family members. Well, here she goes, on the Niacin, and low and behold she is just having an awful time with it. Well DUH!!!! Stop poisoning yourself sis so the Niacin can do its job easier.

Hi Charlie. I have a question about this from something that happened to me. If you find older posts from me I talk about how I lost my taste in smell for almost 3 years and then used a nicotine patch (7mg) for two weeks. And when I started the patch I was peeing a ton and knew I was detoxing something. And my smell and taste came back (I would say I am about 80 to 85 percent better from that). And the theory was that a toxin was blocking the nicotinic "pathways" in the body. And since it was nicotine, would that be the same pathway that Niacin would help to detox if you were on the proper dosage to "unbind" what was blocking the pathway? From what I have read about this, things like glyphosate also can lead to blocking this pathway. Just wondering about it. Thanks.

 

[Makrosky]

Hi Charlie. I have a question about this from something that happened to me. If you find older posts from me I talk about how I lost my taste in smell for almost 3 years and then used a nicotine patch (7mg) for two weeks. And when I started the patch I was peeing a ton and knew I was detoxing something. And my smell and taste came back (I would say I am about 80 to 85 percent better from that). And the theory was that a toxin was blocking the nicotinic "pathways" in the body. And since it was nicotine, would that be the same pathway that Niacin would help to detox if you were on the proper dosage to "unbind" what was blocking the pathway? From what I have read about this, things like glyphosate also can lead to blocking this pathway. Just wondering about it. Thanks.

Maybe the nicotine simply raised up your metabolism so you could heal that.

 

[jay123]

Maybe the nicotine simply raised up your metabolism so you could heal that.

I guess its possible. But honestly, in my opinion, my metabolism has been very good all of my life. I am the same weight I am now as I was when I was 19. Im 51 now. But it is a possibility. What was interesting is I was massively urinating the first two days. And I had no weight change.

 

[mosaic01]

And since it was nicotine, would that be the same pathway that Niacin would help to detox

I also took the nicotine patch for a week when I saw the thread here. It helped me a lot, and during that week my urine turned from white to dark yellow.

Nicotine has a completely different effect than nicotinic acid. Nicotine acts on the Nicotine Acetylcholine Receptors, and niacin has nothing to do with those receptors.

The reason nicotine helps is probably because it regulates the nervous system and calms it down via stimulating the vagus nerve and parasympathetic activity.

 

[Peater]

I also took the nicotine patch for a week when I saw the thread here. It helped me a lot, and during that week my urine turned from white to dark yellow.

Nicotine has a completely different effect than nicotinic acid. Nicotine acts on the Nicotine Acetylcholine Receptors, and niacin has nothing to do with those receptors.

The reason nicotine helps is probably because it regulates the nervous system and calms it down via stimulating the vagus nerve and parasympathetic activity.

I'm off tobacco at the moment, I thought it was a promoter of high acetylcholine.

 

[jay123]

I also took the nicotine patch for a week when I saw the thread here. It helped me a lot, and during that week my urine turned from white to dark yellow.

Nicotine has a completely different effect than nicotinic acid. Nicotine acts on the Nicotine Acetylcholine Receptors, and niacin has nothing to do with those receptors.

The reason nicotine helps is probably because it regulates the nervous system and calms it down via stimulating the vagus nerve and parasympathetic activity.

Thanks for the response! So if that is the case, then what happened was more of a relaxed response to calm down the receptors to "let go" of what may be the toxin?

 

[mosaic01]

So if that is the case, then what happened was more of a relaxed response to calm down the receptors to "let go" of what may be the toxin?

I'm also puzzled by this. Is this one guy correct who said the nicotine replaces some kind of snake venom covid virus from the receptors?

When the nervous system is in a "blocked" state, then it can't really detoxify. Vagus nerve stimulation helps with that and activates processes that are not strictly necessary for survival, including repair.

Recent studies indicate that the vagus nerve (which is the longest of the cranial nerves and innervates most of the peripheral organs) can modulate the immune response and control inflammation through a 'nicotinic anti-inflammatory pathway' dependent on the alpha7-nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (alpha7nAChR).

The vagus nerve and the nicotinic anti-inflammatory pathway - PubMed

Physiological anti-inflammatory mechanisms are selected by evolution to effectively control the immune system and can be exploited for the treatment of inflammatory disorders. Recent studies indicate that the vagus nerve (which is the longest of the cranial nerves and innervates most of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[jay123]

I'm also puzzled by this. Is this one guy correct who said the nicotine replaces some kind of snake venom covid virus from the receptors?

When the nervous system is in a "blocked" state, then it can't really detoxify. Vagus nerve stimulation helps with that and activates processes that are not strictly necessary for survival, including repair.

The vagus nerve and the nicotinic anti-inflammatory pathway - PubMed

Physiological anti-inflammatory mechanisms are selected by evolution to effectively control the immune system and can be exploited for the treatment of inflammatory disorders. Recent studies indicate that the vagus nerve (which is the longest of the cranial nerves and innervates most of the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Well, I was actually amazed it worked! And believe me I am not complaining becuase it was a huge return of quality of my life being able to taste and smell again. I'm puzzled about it too. I understand what you are saying about the "blocked" state. Maybe just not the best way to describe it from me.

 

[cfeehan]

I'm just starting out with niacin. I'm up to 100mg twice a day with meals. I've only had one 'flush' experience, and that seemed a bit random about 3 hours after the meal. But two things I've noticed: (1) poop has suddenly turned very pale (2) I'm suddenly SUPER HUNGRY and have gained 2lbs over the last week and a half. I've been eating more but staying on track with Low A / Low Toxin foods - just a much higher volume.

Has anyone else had similar experiences? Should I stop niacin, stay at this level or keep adding more?

 

[TurboTime]

Dr. Garrett Smith is seeing the less copper people have in their bodies the healthier they are.

I doubt he measured it in their bodies. More likely he measured it in their blood where copper indicates toxicity in the patient because copper is used by the body for... DETOX! It's more likely that the unhealthy people have less copper in their BODIES because they've used up more of it detoxing. This eventually leads to things like nerve issues and heart failure as copper gets taken from nerves and organs for detoxing.

>After adjusting for other risk factors of heart disease, those with serum copper levels in the two highest quartiles had a significantly greater risk of dying from CHD. Three other case-control studies conducted in Europe had similar findings. One small study in 60 patients with chronic heart failure or ischemic heart disease reported that serum copper was a predictor of short-term outcome (36). Another prospective cohort study in 4,035 middle-aged men reported that high serum copper levels were significantly related to a 50% increase in all-cause mortality; however, serum copper was not significantly associated with cardiovascular mortality in this study (37). Additionally, serum copper has been found to be elevated in patients with rheumatic heart disease (38).

>It is important to note that serum copper largely reflects serum ceruloplasmin and is not a sensitive indicator of copper nutritional status (39). Serum ceruloplasmin levels are known to increase by 50% or more under certain conditions of physical stress, such as trauma, inflammation, or disease. Because over 90% of serum copper is carried in ceruloplasmin, which is increased in many inflammatory conditions, elevated serum copper may simply be a marker of inflammation that accompanies atherosclerosis. In contrast to the epidemiological findings linking increased serum copper levels to heart disease, two autopsy studies found copper levels in heart muscle were actually lower in patients who died of CHD than those who died of other causes (40).

Source: Copper


And this is from Ray Peat's book Generative Energy
>Someone suspected that copper accelerated aging by causing free radical reactions, and fed a chelator (gluconic acid) to animals, and extended their lives by 10 or 12%. In his next experiment, he fed them both the chelator and extra copper, thinking he would counteract the life extension, but these animals lived 22% longer. He next fed copper alone, and found that it extended the life-span by about 11%, so its effect was additive with that of the chelator. I suspect the chelator was removing iron, and maybe other toxic metals. At a dose about 50 times larger than normal, copper did shorten the lifespan by several percent.