Progesterone Oral Vs Topical

opethfeldt

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I was wondering what kind of experiences you guys have had with progesterone using different routes of administration. Personally, I find oral and topical completely different in terms of effects. Topical, it seems to have the stronger anti estrogen effect. I assume it gets into the blood unconverted. Weirdly, it doesn't seem to have any anti stress effects for me administered this way. Orally, it doesn't seem to have the same anti estrogen effects but has a great mood boost and stress relieving effect. I think this may be from allopregnanolone conversion, something I'm woefully deficient in. It also dramatically increases my confidence. It's basically like being drunk without the impairment. Basically, it almost feels like a different supplement. Curious if anyone can chime in with their experience. If anyone is wondering, I use 3mg per day.
 

Michael Mohn

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Try applying progesterone on the neck. Very relaxing! If you're hairy on your neck you might wanna shave beforehand.
 
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I find the topical vs oral effects of supplements interesting, although I've almost always used oral so I don't have anything to contribute. But for your progesterone example, is that 3mg you are using in both oral or topical administration? I wonder if the amount absorbed topically affects what you notice. BTW do you use progest-E and just apply it directly when using topical? Or putting olive oil or something first.

It'd be great if that purported Theranos technology had been real so we could quickly observe the lab values of questions like these.
 
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opethfeldt

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I find the topical vs oral effects of supplements interesting, although I've almost always used oral so I don't have anything to contribute. But for your progesterone example, is that 3mg you are using in both oral or topical administration? I wonder if the amount absorbed topically affects what you notice. BTW do you use progest-E and just apply it directly when using topical? Or putting olive oil or something first.

It'd be great if that purported Theranos technology had been real so we could quickly observe the lab values of questions like these.
I use Health Natura. So it has mct and vitamin E I believe. Anyway, I think progesterone has lower bioavailability topically than orally. Idk if that explains the difference in effects.
 

opethfeldt

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Two posts from Haidut on topical vs oral administration (although it is specifically discussing K2/kuinone):
Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)
C. Difficile Gut Infection Or Even IBD May Be Due To Low Vitamin D Or PPI Drugs
Yeah, my guess is the liver is metabolizing the prog into other downstream hormones. I know there was a study posted showing a test and DHT increase from oral prog but I have high levels of both so I doubt any contribution the small dose of prog has explains the effects. At any rate, I recommend people under stress to try oral dosing. It's been the only thing that's really reduced my stress so far. No amount of androgens, preg, aspirin, DHEA, etc. has touched it.
 

Mito

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Peat has talked about oral vs topical progesterone in interviews and in his last newsletter. He said topical progesterone is only about 10 to 20% absorbed. Oral progesterone is absorbed much better but it has to be dissolved in longer chain fatty acids not MCT oil. If it’s dissolved in MCT oil and taken orally it will go to the liver and be metabolized so the progesterone wont reach the tissues. If the progesterone is dissolved in long chain fats, then it will get incorporated into chylomicrons and go directly to the blood stream and tissues which is similar to endogenously produced progesterone.
 

Mossy

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Peat has talked about oral vs topical progesterone in interviews and in his last newsletter. He said topical progesterone is only about 10 to 20% absorbed. Oral progesterone is absorbed much better but it has to be dissolved in longer chain fatty acids not MCT oil. If it’s dissolved in MCT oil and taken orally it will go to the liver and be metabolized so the progesterone wont reach the tissues. If the progesterone is dissolved in long chain fats, then it will get incorporated into chylomicrons and go directly to the blood stream and tissues which is similar to endogenously produced progesterone.
This is very helpful to know—thank you. Could you relay what long chain fat is preferred or ideal?
 

Mito

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This is very helpful to know—thank you. Could you relay what long chain fat is preferred or ideal?
upload_2020-1-14_19-34-55.jpeg

Not sure what would be ideal but you want a fat that goes into chylomicrons and the lymph system rather than direct to the liver through the portal vein. According to the figure above that would a fat with 12 or more carbons. Or on the chart below lauric acid and below. Although lauric acid is 12 carbons long so part of it will go to the liver and part to chylomicron circulation.
1F4FE4E7-E51E-4D7A-96AE-F4D55167482E.jpeg
 

opethfeldt

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So maybe I got a little over excited. Bout a week of use and I felt basically castrated. Weird how it can be so positive for days, just to come crashing down. Maybe other people can chime in on long term use.
 

Mossy

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View attachment 16346

Not sure what would be ideal but you want a fat that goes into chylomicrons and the lymph system rather than direct to the liver through the portal vein. According to the figure above that would a fat with 12 or more carbons. Or on the chart below lauric acid and below. Although lauric acid is 12 carbons long so part of it will go to the liver and part to chylomicron circulation.
View attachment 16347
Once again, very helpful. :chaplin

Coincidentally, I’ve stumbled upon another thread that reminded me of the pro-stearic acid position of many on this forum, which ties in nicely to your “12 or more carbons” direction. So, looks like cocoa butter, or straight up stearic acid, would fit the bill. Thank you for the added detail.
 

Michael Mohn

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So maybe I got a little over excited. Bout a week of use and I felt basically castrated. Weird how it can be so positive for days, just to come crashing down.
Adding a bit of dhea can help. If your estrogen goes too low your libido crashes. Don't put it on your balls neither. Temples, neck, under the tongue is better for anti stress.
 

cyclops

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Adding a bit of dhea can help. If your estrogen goes too low your libido crashes. Don't put it on your balls neither. Temples, neck, under the tongue is better for anti stress.

Isn't that progesterone castrated effect from lowering testosterone? Its been talked on here before, thats why men have to be careful with progesterone.
 

Mauritio

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Progesterone is more androgenic and anti estrogenic orally in very small doses 0,5-1mg for me
 

schultz

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Isn't that progesterone castrated effect from lowering testosterone? Its been talked on here before, thats why men have to be careful with progesterone.

Actually low estrogen is the cause of dozens of things on the forum now. Half the guys on here have low estrogen, haven't you heard this?

(I am being sarcastic)

Yah you're right about the progesterone. It will lower androgens temporarily if you take too much. Ray has mentioned this a few times on various radio shows.
 

cyclops

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Actually low estrogen is the cause of dozens of things on the forum now. Half the guys on here have low estrogen, haven't you heard this?

(I am being sarcastic)

Yah you're right about the progesterone. It will lower androgens temporarily if you take too much. Ray has mentioned this a few times on various radio shows.

Yeah Progesterone has actually been the most frustrating substance for me to understand in all of Peatdom. Its extra frustrating because it seems so damn important as well. Every other word out of Peats mouth is how great and important progesterone is/can be (and he never says progesterone is great only for women though). But in his articles he has written it is not a male hormone and can lower androgens as you say.

Many threads on here about men loving progesterone (usually in lower amounts but sometimes higher) and many threads where people are telling men they are crazy for using progesterone and should be using preg instead. I believe Peat uses it or has it least used it in the past and he obviously holds it in very high regard.

I wish I could get a better grasp on it, so I could take full advantage of this substance in the right way.
 

Michael Mohn

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Isn't that progesterone castrated effect from lowering testosterone? Its been talked on here before, thats why men have to be careful with progesterone.

Comparing progesterone's effect with castration, a permanent effect, is highly misleading. I wonder what or who gave you that idea. It may reduce libido in some men. Rarely longer then 48 hours I would guess, less than 24 hours in most. Progesterone can restore/ increase libido in men with high estrogen. Adding a few milligrams of dhea solves any problems in most men. Some do better with pregnenolone + dhea though.
 

cyclops

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@cyclops haidut recommends taking it with DHEA for males. Try that, problem will be solved.

Yes, I have seen that and been experimenting with it and progesterone. I dont seem to feel anything from up to 20mgs of progesterone, but when I add Dhea (5mg oral) I always get acne which probably means it raising androgens. I will keep experimenting with the progesterone, maybe in higher doses, to see if I feel it helping me any. Truth be told I dont really feel anything from the 3 youth steroids: prog, prog, and dhea, so besides the acne from dhea its hard for me to tell what they are doing. The one exception is the very first time I took pansterone way back in dmso topically on the skin, a full dose, I remember feeling beyond incredible, so much energy, then never again, weird.
 

cyclops

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Peat has talked about oral vs topical progesterone in interviews and in his last newsletter. He said topical progesterone is only about 10 to 20% absorbed. Oral progesterone is absorbed much better but it has to be dissolved in longer chain fatty acids not MCT oil. If it’s dissolved in MCT oil and taken orally it will go to the liver and be metabolized so the progesterone wont reach the tissues. If the progesterone is dissolved in long chain fats, then it will get incorporated into chylomicrons and go directly to the blood stream and tissues which is similar to endogenously produced progesterone.

Well that sucks, because I have the healthnatura one which I believe is in MCT oil, maybe that is why I dont feel anything from it.
 
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