Topical or oral androsterone??

[Cameron]

What was more effective for individuals topical or oral androsterone? I’m curious if the effect of 5ar activation in the skin with topical Andro is noticeably superior than oral convenience and bioavailability. Will oral convert more likely to an inactive weaker back door androgen via liver metabolism? Is either route of administering a waste? My main question is what route of administration is more worth while per dose? @haidut @Hans anyone else share their experience.. I will be using androsterone with thyroid for awhile to experiment :)

 

[Hans]

What was more effective for individuals topical or oral androsterone? I’m curious if the effect of 5ar activation in the skin with topical Andro is noticeably superior than oral convenience and bioavailability. Will oral convert more likely to an inactive weaker back door androgen via liver metabolism? Is either route of administering a waste? My main question is what route of administration is more worth while per dose? @haidut @Hans anyone else share their experience.. I will be using androsterone with thyroid for awhile to experiment :)

Sublingual probably gave me the strongest effect, followed by topical.

 

[Cameron]

Sublingual probably gave me the strongest effect, followed by topical.

Cool I may split dose half oral half topical. I like the 5ar skin effects in theory with androgens put I can’t help but think at small doses not much is really going to absorb. Oral is pretty reliable reminds me of low dose androgens like anavar that are effective in small mg doses. Obviously very different androgens. Did you do naval for topical?

 

[Hans]

Cool I may split dose half oral half topical. I like the 5ar skin effects in theory with androgens put I can’t help but think at small doses not much is really going to absorb. Oral is pretty reliable reminds me of low dose androgens like anavar that are effective in small mg doses. Obviously very different androgens. Did you do naval for topical?

Androsterone is already 5 alpha reduced so you don't have to apply it on the skin for that benefit. DHEA topically will give you that benefit. I used it a little in my navel, sometimes on my glans as an experiment (didn't notice anything) and then on my cheeks (for beard growth). But in terms of subjective feeling, sublingual was the strongest.

 

[Cameron]

Androsterone is already 5 alpha reduced so you don't have to apply it on the skin for that benefit. DHEA topically will give you that benefit. I used it a little in my navel, sometimes on my glans as an experiment (didn't notice anything) and then on my cheeks (for beard growth). But in terms of subjective feeling, sublingual was the strongest.

Interesting. Did it help with beard growth since already 5 alpha reduced? What was the highest amount you ran orally? It’s interesting to see old studies used in injection at really high doses 200-300 mg with no real Negative effect. On here most people run it very low but I’m interested in what the higher dosages have to offer as a nervous system androgen activator. Most prohormones are horrible so naturally I wonder if andro by nature gets a skeptical view unnecessarily.

 

[Cameron]

Androsterone is already 5 alpha reduced so you don't have to apply it on the skin for that benefit. DHEA topically will give you that benefit. I used it a little in my navel, sometimes on my glans as an experiment (didn't notice anything) and then on my cheeks (for beard growth). But in terms of subjective feeling, sublingual was the strongest.

I saw you used both androsterone and 11 keto dht in a podcast once. Great show btw! What have you found to be more useful? Human studies on 11 keto dht are lacking.

 

[Hans]

I saw you used both androsterone and 11 keto dht in a podcast once. Great show btw! What have you found to be more useful? Human studies on 11 keto dht are lacking.

Thanks man! I like the feeling with 11-keto DHT more than andro. Andro made me agro or short-tempered, whereas 11 keto doesn't. Andro also had a strong pheromone effect.

 

[Cameron]

Thanks man! I like the feeling with 11-keto DHT more than andro. Andro made me agro or short-tempered, whereas 11 keto doesn't. Andro also had a strong pheromone effect.

Do you subscribe to the idea 11 keto dht is actually THE strongest androgen in the body? Simply ketone groups are making the androgen stronger and longer half life? Weird it seems so unstudied in most endocrinology papers. I’ll try andro first then 11 keto dht. I use nicotine to lower 3 a diol levels currently as well and as a cognitive aid

 

[Cameron]

Thanks man! I like the feeling with 11-keto DHT more than andro. Andro made me agro or short-tempered, whereas 11 keto doesn't. Andro also had a strong pheromone effect.

Did you try them both together at one point? And 11 keto orally or topical?

 

[Hans]

Do you subscribe to the idea 11 keto dht is actually THE strongest androgen in the body? Simply ketone groups are making the androgen stronger and longer half life? Weird it seems so unstudied in most endocrinology papers. I’ll try andro first then 11 keto dht. I use nicotine to lower 3 a diol levels currently as well and as a cognitive aid

According to in vitro studies 11-keto has the same affinity to the AR compared to DHT, but it's half life is much longer which does make it stronger.

 

[Hans]

Did you try them both together at one point? And 11 keto orally or topical?

I have not but I do have a little andro left so perhaps I can try that.

 

[Cameron]

I have not but I do have a little andro left so perhaps I can try that.

That’s what I’m going to do. T3 alone has been good for energy in the gym (16 mcgs) but not very “androgenic” tbh. I really like the idea of these compounds I think finding the right dose not too small but not crazy large is the idea. Giving time for tissue androgens to increase without obliterating cortisol or estrogen. Importantly 11 keto dht is found in small amounts. 4-8 mgs test ->convert 5-10% dht so really trace amounts of keto bound dht would likely be in otherwise healthy men. Keto steroids maybe being higher in stressed organisms or fish.

 

[Cameron]

According to in vitro studies 11-keto has the same affinity to the AR compared to DHT, but it's half life is much longer which does make it stronger.

This is interesting as far as detection and plasma dht higher in females..
“11KDHT levels did not show sexual dimorphism, whereas DHT levels were much higher in females. It is noteworthy that plasma DHT levels in female eels were higher than those in men. In addition, plasma 11KDHT was undetectable in both sexes in humans, despite the presence of 11KT. Three srd5a genes (srd5a1, srd5a2a and srd5a2b) were cloned from eel gonads. All three srd5a genes were expressed in the ovary, whereas only both srd5a2 genes were expressed in the testis. Human SRD5A1 was expressed in testis, ovary and adrenal, whereas SRD5A2 was expressed only in testis. Human SRD5A1, SRD5A2 and both eel srd5a2 isoforms catalyzed the conversion of T and 11KT into DHT and 11KDHT, respectively, whereas only eel srd5a1 converted T into DHT. DHT and 11KDHT activated eel androgen receptor (ar)α-mediated transactivation as similar fashion to T and 11KT. In contrast, human AR and eel arβ were activated by DHT and11KDHT more strongly than T and 11KT. These results indicate that in teleosts, DHT and 11KDHT may be important 5α-reduced androgens produced in the gonads. In contrast, DHT is the only major 5α-reduced androgens in healthy humans.”

 

[japanesedude]

Is it ok to use SFA/Ethanol formula orally?

 

[ecstatichamster]

I have not received any benefit from androsterone personally.

 

[opethfeldt]

I have not received any benefit from androsterone personally.

I once thought I did but I think it's simply placebo. You read all the positive reports on the various threads and imagine benefits that aren't there. I mean, there's people taking 20+mg of oral t and not noticing anything. But 1mg of androsterone is having dramatic benefits? As a pheromone, it's definitely powerful but it's not that noticeable in any other way, for me. Even combined with DHEA.