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I too have post finasteride syndrome, with all of the severe symptoms.
Overall, I think the ebst prescription is time+ ray peat dieting/light+ low frequency resistance training+ plenty of sleep and rest
Minimizing stressful factors in your lfie is very important, so that you can focus mentally and physically on your recovery.
topical dhea seems to help everyone because of the DHT conversion. I have beent rying 11 keto and androsterone to good results altely. Some people swear by pregnenlone, but for me it gives me strange brain fog.
Funny you say that about preg, I get the same thing when I was supplementing it orally at 20-50mg per day. I think what is happening is my cholesterol is getting backed up from preg (or another neurosteroid not converting fast enough or the right steroids/hormones). Because when I added Vitamin A in at 30,000iu I definitely noticed something in terms of libido and just overall better feeling. I'm debating on going even higher with the vitamin A as I read that is a cofactor for cholesterol-->preg and all the other neurosteroids.
Over the past 6 months I made some of the best recoveries from a prohormone product called R-Andro which is basically androsterone and also pine pollen powder in high amounts daily. The R-andro is what got me interested in trying haidut's product as they both seem to contain the same ingredient but hairdut's is topical.
If you haven't tried this already, try getting your cholesterol up way higher and add in higher doses of vit A along with E, D3 and K2. I feel way better eating a ton of saturated fats and fruit compared to when I was on keto.
As far as the niacinimide goes, the 3 gram dose daily has gave me so weird effects in terms of like chills, fatigue, brain fog and my libido is definitely up, but I started the vit A, K2, D3 and niacinimide all at the same time so it's hard to pinpoint what is actually helping probably they are since they are all anti-estrogenic.
Does my thyroid look ok?
I actually have considerred your "cholesterol back-up" theory myself. After my disastrous crash, for the first couple of years this actually had me substantially worried that I would have cardiovascular disease or arterial blockage or something along that vein (no pun intended). A general stuffiness in my chest, accompanied by mild aching, and what seemed like poor circulation were the symptoms. After learning more about how arterial build up is actually caused by unsaturated fats, I became less worried and realized my poor vascular function was do to lower 5-AR function. 5-ar is responsible for a variety of hormones, not just DHT, although that is a positively vital one for males.
Lately I have been primarily concering myself with the effects of DHEA and preg. DHEA is smaller doses does seem to help. However it is clearly addictive/suppressive because after using it for even a day, I wake up the next mroning feeling zonked and a little out of balance. When I use DHEA for a month or so, at maybe 10-20 grams a day, I felt real weird when I stopped. I stayed off of it for a couple weeks and I am not certain if things came back to homeostasis mentally, where they should be that far along in mf post finasteride recovery, or if I was still feeling depersonalized from the DHEA. I really don't know, because for the past 2 days I have not used any pansterone and I am remarkably tired, lackluster, and find it difficult for anything to mentally stimulate. So this morning I applied 2 drops of pansterone because I know I need some extra energy for today, and while it is clear I have more energy, I also have more brain fog-like a broad empty space in the front of my brain. I suppose I want the energy, the metabolic boost of preg, without the weird mental side effects.
I am going to jsut have to keep experimenting, but if I can't figure out how to get my mind somewhat mroe comfortable and reliable, than I believe I am going to drop all of my supps save for some of the fat soluble vitamins, and focus on eating good food and resting a lot.
@sladerunner69 how is your sleep, are you able to sleep 8hrs deep, go long hours between eating with no crashing? Would working on liver glycogen storage help with respect to getting energy levels and storage way up, so you can experiment with andro/11-keto/pansterone.
I try using them and since I am running on stress hormones and cant sleep through the night, those three supps have knock me down hard, draining liver stores and causing insomnia. I think I am 5-ar depressed from 2 rounds of accutane...
Last few days I have been following @Mittir thoughts on experimenting with more sugar, milk, coconut oil, apple juice, this quickly bumped up energy, well feeling and sleep is improving.
You might look at what people said about UNIQUE E. It's basically useless.
Yeah niacinamide needs a lot of sugar to be effective as it increases metabolism and makes you a sugar burner as apposed to a fat burner.I wanted to update that with the fat soluble vitamins I have been taking along with the niacinimide I feel like I'm on 50-75mg of proviron. My libido and mood is up definitely and I'm very dry and tight (anti E effects). My vascularity also increased and my appetite is up for sure.
note: I mentioned earlier that the niacinimide made me feel "weird" well I found out it was making me go hypo LOL and a cup of orange juice and a bunch of fruit, ice cream resolves it now.
Also pure encap also includes 50mg of alpha lipoic acid in their niacinimide which I didn't know about.
Were you not already eating a ton of saturated fat while on keto, or is it the addition of the fruit that's helping?I feel way better eating a ton of saturated fats and fruit compared to when I was on keto.
Yeah niacinamide needs a lot of sugar to be effective as it increases metabolism and makes you a sugar burner as apposed to a fat burner.
Don't you get puffy face from UNIQUE E? I get that anytime I interact with soya. And it makes me weak like mushy muscles.
Vitamin D, K2, and A work synergically and increases my libido too. I think of D as the coach, it needs good players to win matches. In this case, K2 delivers goals and A calms down the coach (D) in stressful situations so D can think rationally and puts the best formation for his team. Without A, sometimes D makes me irritable if any of this makes sense. Magnesium is the assistant of goals and calcium is the ball :)
I think there are posts that say vitamin D, A, and niacinamide help with androgen enzymes activities or some sort. Glycine is another substance that could help in raising androgens.
I like vitamin E alone or with vitamin A. It's better consumed away from vitamin K2 to ensure they are not canceling each other's effects.
Were you not already eating a ton of saturated fat while on keto, or is it the addition of the fruit that's helping?
I'm not too strong on reading most of the lab results, but the TSH looks highish, CO2 might be a bit lower than optimal,Here are my latest bloods from a week ago
Looks maybe lowish in carbohydrates, esp with three eggs and coffee and high dose niacinamide?Breakfast (smoothie):
Peat has recommended pure white salts over coloured ones - many of us get more than enough iron as it is.Lunch
I wonder if your keto experience may have been better if you'd focused on saturated fat, but it seems what you're doing now is working for you. I know there's at least a couple other members here that get the bulk of their calories from saturated fat with good results.During keto I was eating signicnatly less saturated fats and way more PUFA like olive oil. I am actually eating a ***t ton of saturated fat now compare to keto. My main fat sources are coconut oil, butter and ice cream. I completely cut out olive oil. fruits and OJ I think are helping a lot though. I feel way more energy and higher body temp. My waist is tighter that it was compared to on keto which is crazy (never thought eating sugar would do that) with the diet I'm doing (peating).
I also try and keep up with the coffee and K2 to keep the fat flushed out.
Funny you say that about preg, I get the same thing when I was supplementing it orally at 20-50mg per day. I think what is happening is my cholesterol is getting backed up from preg (or another neurosteroid not converting fast enough or the right steroids/hormones). Because when I added Vitamin A in at 30,000iu I definitely noticed something in terms of libido and just overall better feeling. I'm debating on going even higher with the vitamin A as I read that is a cofactor for cholesterol-->preg and all the other neurosteroids.
Over the past 6 months I made some of the best recoveries from a prohormone product called R-Andro which is basically androsterone and also pine pollen powder in high amounts daily. The R-andro is what got me interested in trying haidut's product as they both seem to contain the same ingredient but hairdut's is topical.
If you haven't tried this already, try getting your cholesterol up way higher and add in higher doses of vit A along with E, D3 and K2. I feel way better eating a ton of saturated fats and fruit compared to when I was on keto.
As far as the niacinimide goes, the 3 gram dose daily has gave me so weird effects in terms of like chills, fatigue, brain fog and my libido is definitely up, but I started the vit A, K2, D3 and niacinimide all at the same time so it's hard to pinpoint what is actually helping probably they are since they are all anti-estrogenic.
Does my thyroid look ok?
I'm not too strong on reading most of the lab results, but the TSH looks highish, CO2 might be a bit lower than optimal,
Ccholesterol is marked high, but it's not very high and possibly not a bad thing to have it up there if you are needing to create more downstream steroid hormones.
Have you had a go at monitoring body temps for more metabolism data?
Looks maybe lowish in carbohydrates, esp with three eggs and coffee and high dose niacinamide?
If you are looking for the gut cleaning benefits Peat recommends raw carrot for, you'd probably get more of that effect by having the carrot separate from your meals, and either grating it a bit more coarsely rather than blending it (so the fibres don't get chopped so small) (optionally eating it with a little vinegar or coconut/olive oil may make it a little more effective.
Peat usually favours cooking leaves, and esp drinking the cooking water, rather than eating raw - more digestible, still get the minerals.
Peat has recommended pure white salts over coloured ones - many of us get more than enough iron as it is.
While there does seem to be some benefit from having some saturated fat with meals (and minimising PUFA), I've not seen Peat suggest eating 'a ton' of butter or coconut oil. For many of us, it seems good to make carbohydrates at least as much the energy staple.
For an active young man, I'm wondering if you could use more carbs - maybe more sugars in the form of fruit, juice etc?
I wonder if your keto experience may have been better if you'd focused on saturated fat, but it seems what you're doing now is working for you. I know there's at least a couple other members here that get the bulk of their calories from saturated fat with good results.
PFS crew checking in. I also get the exact same thing from preg. It makes me unbelievably depressed actually and I feel next to no emotion from it. I thought op's cholesterol was pretty good at 214, pretty interesting though.
My thought on PFS now is it is some kind of fungal overload type thing that is blocking the metabolism. The first time I took an anti fungal, flucanazole, I noticed an immediate spike in my hunger right away. I also felt my emotions and feelings come back. I also noticed very interestingly my hunger came back STRONG. However, I am now on my 3rd round of it and it is not as effective as it initially was, albiet a lot of fungus did clear from my body, I still do have some fungal spots near my genitals that have not left yet though which keeps me hopeful that it is a fungal issue that is not yet resolved.. that's what I'm doing at least for now.
It seems to me the most important part of PFS is fixing the digestion.. whenever I've had times where I had a perfect bowel movement or I emptied my bowels, I really felt way better and sometimes had the libido spikes, however, if I have any trouble going to the restroom, I will get the PFS feelings back.
It is really some kind of digestive problem, I don't know the root cause though. I have been peating for over a year trying to fix the problem so have a lot of trial and error on a lot of stuff, I'd say digestion is most important for when I've found myself feeling more normal, but really I don't know at this point.
I really wonder sometimes what the consequences of are increasing your Testosterone from taking a 5ar inhibitor... I really think it somehow left us in an energy deficit because you are creating too much testosterone, requiring more energy, if you have hair loss, you are probably in an energy scarce state to begin with, then you go and take a bunch of testosterone boosting pills which finasteride basically is at the end of the day, really what is going to happen to you...