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Orange Juice + Baking Soda

Jib

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Mar 20, 2013
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575
After reading some of Ray Peat's ideas about sodium and carbon dioxide, as well as his reasons for recommending orange juice as a dietary staple, on top of some of Matt Stone's thoughts on large amounts of potassium not balanced with additional sodium being potentially aggravating for people in a low metabolic state, I thought using baking soda and orange juice together would accomplish a number of things:

-increase sodium intake

-balance the high potassium content of orange juice

-add carbon dioxide via the reaction between the baking soda and acids in the orange juice

-for people avoiding orange juice because of acid reflux, this is a great way to enjoy orange juice without triggering any episodes, and could be an alternative to storebought low-acid orange juice

-I suspected that baking soda and water with meals might be disruptive to digestion because of the dilution of stomach acids. The taste is also not that great. Mixing the baking soda with orange juice, the baking soda reacts with the acids in the juice, and can go into the stomach without having the buffering effect of straight baking soda. I don't have any solid ratios for baking soda to orange juice yet (I've been using around 1/3 to 1/2 teaspoon for around 12oz of orange juice), but when it tasted about right and had a good amount of fizz, the pH of the final drink was right around 6.0, for whatever that's worth.

Anyway, the first and foremost reason that I've been doing this regularly for a couple months now is because of the flavor. I was really craving carbonation and the carbonated orange juice really tastes awesome to me, and that's the main reason I keep drinking it this way. But I was wondering if anyone else had tried this, and if not, if anyone had any thoughts on it or would be willing to try it and see how it works for them.
 

Asimov

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Jan 19, 2013
Messages
162
Short answer: yes

I've been doing salt+OJ since I was a child, strictly for taste. Salt completely eliminates the bitterness of pure orange juice.

After reading Peat and his ideas on baking soda, tried it, and as you've noted, better physiological effects + same great taste. It's a winner for sure.
 

key

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Jan 27, 2013
Messages
122
I drink about 12 cups of OJ that way. You get the same carbonation tingle in your throat like soda; feels good. It works best to add baking soda to cold OJ. Also I've found lower quality OJ has weird foam whereas higher quality OJ has normal foam that dissipates off.
 

Jenn

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Feb 24, 2013
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Baking soda is a good thing. Good for the pancreas, good for the kidney. Excess sodium is stored in the stressed cells....edema. You can get too much sodium.
Potassium is water soluble and is eliminated through the colon. You can't get too much potassium in food form. Potassium helps excess sodium leave stressed cells.
You want to make sure you are getting enough salt too so you have sufficient stomach acid, HCl.
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
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2,034
I have noticed baking soda worsens my asthma and sleep. It does increase urination and possibly this causes loss of nutrients.
In a recent interview Ray Peat suggested to use bag breathing to increase co2 instead of baking soda. He did not explain why.
 

Jenn

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Feb 24, 2013
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Have you checked your pH? My friend also has asthma and is too alkaline (the 2 can go hand in hand) and so therefore does avoid baking soda, except in a bath. She does the bag and uses a dust mask for her young son.

People with asthma may also want to avoid bananas and avocados especially, unless cooked, due to chitinase, which is also implicated in celiacs.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml
 

Nici

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Jan 15, 2013
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I tried OJ with baking soda 3 hours before exercising, noticed positive difference in the way I felt whilst working out.

I did not have protein or fat with the OJ and baking soda, should I?
 

HDD

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Nov 1, 2012
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Had some eggs w/o enough OJ this a.m. and having hypo symptoms. Is there an easy fix once it starts? Have had more OJ+milk and hash browns but still feel shaky.
 

Birdie

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Aug 10, 2012
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We've been using the baking soda in our oj too. For about a year and a half now. My husband uses quite a lot but I like just a pinch. I didn't drink oj prior to reading Peat, so have no experience with plain oj's triggering reflux.

I also do the bag breathing for CO2, especially on breaks during my exercise/yoga. CO2 is a part of my regimen (with protein and progesterone) for curing anemia a la Peat. :!:

Another CO2 enhancer has been learning to breathe through my nose, and from the belly. I tape my mouth at night to encourage nose breathing. A side benefit is that my chapped lips have improved hugely!! :)
 

juanitacarlos

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Dec 31, 2012
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Mittir said:
I have noticed baking soda worsens my asthma and sleep. It does increase urination and possibly this causes loss of nutrients.
In a recent interview Ray Peat suggested to use bag breathing to increase co2 instead of baking soda. He did not explain why.

I can't remember the exact quote, but I'm sure its from an interview with the Rubins in which RP said that you wouldn't get much benefit from baking soda with the OJ because the CO2 would dissolve to fast because of the acidity of the OJ. Something like that...
 

Birdie

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Nici said:
I tried OJ with baking soda 3 hours before exercising, noticed positive difference in the way I felt whilst working out.

I did not have protein or fat with the OJ and baking soda, should I?
Ray has said that orange juice alone is okay.
Edit: meaning without fat or protein. He said it in a discussion on one of the Herb Doc interviews.
 

Jib

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Thread starter
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Mar 20, 2013
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Birdie said:
We've been using the baking soda in our oj too. For about a year and a half now. My husband uses quite a lot but I like just a pinch. I didn't drink oj prior to reading Peat, so have no experience with plain oj's triggering reflux.

I also do the bag breathing for CO2, especially on breaks during my exercise/yoga. CO2 is a part of my regimen (with protein and progesterone) for curing anemia a la Peat. :!:

Another CO2 enhancer has been learning to breathe through my nose, and from the belly. I tape my mouth at night to encourage nose breathing. A side benefit is that my chapped lips have improved hugely!! :)

I've been taping my mouth at night too. Love it. I stick the tape to my pants a couple times to take a bit of the tackiness off. I use Nexcare durable cloth tape (durapore surgical tape). I was using Transpore tape but it was leaving my lips pretty sticky in the morning and that was kind of annoying!

Anyway, have you heard of John Mew and orthotropics? Or George Caitlin? I first heard of Buteyko and practiced reduced breathing for a while, and learned to breathe exclusively through my nose --

-- but eventually I found out about John Mew and George Caitlin too. Mew's thing is orthotropics -- the concept of 'natural orthodontics,' i.e. influencing proper facial development and jaw structure via proper oral posture. "The tongue is the best orthodontic device in the world" (not sure if he said that, but I've seen that while reading about orthotropics).

If you look up pictures online it's absolutely amazing how well it's worked. Night and day difference, and these were kids with serious problems (severe overbites/underbites, lots of crowding, etc.). It's amazing how much more attractive their faces became too.

George Caitlin was around in the 1800's. He observed Native American tribes and noticed how the mothers would close their baby's mouths while they slept, if they happened to open. He believed that this practice encouraged proper facial development (he more hinted at it or implied it, as far as I remember), although his primary focus was nasal breathing. The book he wrote was called "Shut Your Mouth and Save Your Life."

-- and he was especially concerned with keeping the mouth shut and breathing through the nose at night. He believed that people's health was devastated during the night when they had no conscious control over their breathing and their mouths would open and let cold, unfiltered air pass into their lungs, instead of going through the nose.

Tape wasn't even invented yet at the time he wrote that. If it was I'm sure he would've been on that bandwagon. He saw how the Native Americans slept on their backs, wrapping their robes around themselves, and propping their heads up on a small pillow or anything that could serve as a pillow. This encouraged them to keep their mouths closed the whole night through.

Anyway, all of that's very fascinating stuff. I think the CO2 thing is absolutely important, and nasal breathing alone will help with that (although I'm also a fan of diaphragmatic breathing and I think that's very important too)...

...but proper rest oral posture (tip of the tongue just behind the front teeth, lips comfortably closed, teeth lightly touching or slightly apart, tongue against the roof of the mouth) not only creates the habit of nasal breathing, but also the encouragement of proper facial development.

Orthotropics is primarily aimed at younger kids that have a chance to change their facial structure before it becomes more permanent. But I've been using proper oral posture for probably close to a year now and while the difference is subtle, it's definitely there. I think that's pretty cool. The proper swallowing thing too (how swallowing is anterior, and the tongue should not thrust forward -- there should be very little if any visible movement of the face during proper swallowing) has helped me a lot.
 

chris

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Oct 8, 2012
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I tried taping my mouth again last night,. As usual I woke up to the tape neatly folded on my floor and don't remember taking it off. Very annoying.
 

4peatssake

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Feb 7, 2013
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chris said:
I tried taping my mouth again last night,. As usual I woke up to the tape neatly folded on my floor and don't remember taking it off. Very annoying.

:rolling

OH my God Chris, I am so sorry. I know I shouldn't laugh - but the
neatly folded on my floor
bit has me in hysterics.

I don't even think I could fall asleep with tape on my mouth so props to those who take on this particular challenge.
I wonder though about taping my husband's mouth at night.... :mrgreen:
 

tomisonbottom

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Apr 17, 2013
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Jib said:
But I've been using proper oral posture for probably close to a year now and while the difference is subtle, it's definitely there. I think that's pretty cool. The proper swallowing thing too (how swallowing is anterior, and the tongue should not thrust forward -- there should be very little if any visible movement of the face during proper swallowing) has helped me a lot.


What is proper oral posture?
Keeping the mouth closed, tongue on the roof of the mouth?
 

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