Nothing Works

[Vinero]

If it works for you, that's great. I'm not sure it's what Peat would recommend in general for most people. This doesn't match my interpretation.

I'm not saying you should only eat White rice, Meat, Milk, Coco-cola and coffee. But the OP is clearly stuck and in bad health even though he takes massive amounts of supplements and foods.
Something isn't working for him. Who's healthier? Someone with zero health issues eating just those simple foods I mentioned? Or someone like the OP taking a ton of supplements and saying nothing works?
The reason I mention those foods is because they are very safe and I have thrived a long time with greath health on those foods. In fact, that is the bulk of my diet right now. Most of my experiences with adding a lot of different supplements have been very poor. I am just sharing my experience.
Easy to digest and no gut irritation can work wonders to heal your metabolic rate, thyroid and digestion. Every supplement you take increases the chance of gut-irritation and exposure to contaminants which prevent healing. That is the point I like to get across.

 

[Luckytype]

thanks mate, I completely underlooked vitamin C

This is the funny thing, I went to a Doctor when I was 17 saying I thought I was Hypothyroid and she couldn't give less of a s**t what I thought,
I don't have a thermometer rn, But I'll start taking temps in the future.

Getting an idea of wakingtemps and pulse, and also in response to food would give all of us trying to point you in a good direction a much better idea of whats going on and will allow you to make a much better choice going forward. This would likely save you time and money and get healthier faster

 

[CLASH]

Hi, been Peating for about a year now,
I supplement with Taurine, thyroid, red light, Vitamins ADEK, calcium, aspirin, niacinamide
I'll interchange uses between cypro and methylene blue. diet consists of OJ, milk, eggs, spinach, coffee, coconut oil, mushrooms, chicken, prawns, oranges, bananas, cheese, pate, sometimes liver, salami, occasional tortillas. avoidance of pufas.

it's changed quite a fair bit, as a teen, in order to stay slim I'd under eat, then at around 17 I noticed my hair thinning extensively so I became somewhat obsessed with nutrition, which led me to Chris Kresser and the paleo world, previous to that I had started to gravitate to vegetarianism, although never fully adopting it.
My diet was probably a myriad of fruits and vegetables with some protein, I remember I counted like 10 servings of different fruits/vegetables in one day, but yeah I was anti milk and cheese, cos of acne and halitosis, anti bread cos of gluten and weight gain, I'd cook everything in olive oil thinking I was being so healthy, I was definitely over hydrating myself, I'd drink jugs of water at my desk doing work, to mitigate kidney pains.
Scouring Youtube for hair loss solutions I came across Danny Roddy,
My main health problem was my Hair loss in which led me to RP, but tbh I suffered with acne, gynocomastia, fatigue, depression/anxiety, cold hands and feet, and mental fog.
Since peating I've noticed I've never been this lucid and sharp mentally in my entire life, whilst I still suffer with some of my problems, I do feel somewhat improved.
I remember summertime one of my friends was showing a person we'd met an old photo of us all from about a year and a half ago, and I remember the guy saying I looked much older in the photo than I did now, and that was when I'd just started supplementing with niacin, taurine and vitamin E.

@franc0
I just made a post to another guy in university that has similar experiences as you. I also went through a similar journey with my health; generally accepted healthy, somewhat vegetarian, paleo, peat and now basically the whatever works for you diet. I can share a few things that helped me pretty significantly if your interested.

1) for me dropping all dairy was a huge improvement because the opiate effect was too pronounced leading to decreased dopamine and thus increased prolactin (gyno, weight gain), decreased motivation, decreased sex drive and constipation. Something interesting to keep in mind is I’m also genetically lactose tolerant, so you’d think I’d be able to drink milk... I’d replace the milk with fatty cuts of red meat and organs, coconout oil, beef tallow and cocoa butter or chocolate. I’d make sure to eat another type of fat besides coconut oil, coconut oil is mostly medium chain tryglycerides, its helpful to have some long chain fatty acids to stimulate the gallbladder/ liver, beef fat and chocolate work well.

2) i’d also try experimenting with losing the orange juice and replacing it with cane sugar soda. The oj in my experience makes me cold and brain foggy. Check this out:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4089052/

3) if i was going to eat the bananas I’d probably cook them with some cocoa butter or butter, and sugar.

4) the eggs are ok, they might have a decent amount of PUFA, but if you like them and/or theyre from a good source then thats your call. The chicken I’d make sure is the breast with as little fat as possible, just becuase most of the fat is PUFA.

5) I’d add some carrots and I’d keep the leafy greens to make up some of what you lost with the milk. The carrot fiber does work pretty well over time.

6) I’d stay away from starch for the most part, atleast until your digest is much improved.

7) If you’ve always drunken coffee and had no issue with it then I’d say keep
It but if you just added it in because peat uses it, I’d go for a period without it, find your baseline and then add it back in once your stable overall.

8) I’d try to stick to three square meals a day and limit the snacking to give your body time to digest. I’d space the meals 4 hours between to allow the migrating motor complex to complete a cycle and enhance your digestion overall.

9) I’d try to eat .6g/lb of fat per day minimum to start and adjust from there. .6g/lb of protein and atleast 200g of carb minimum to start. You can always adjust up or down if u need. But for carbs i’d try to stay there for a minimum. You can use cronometer to track for this.

For supps I’d stick with vit k2-mk4, vit D3, vit E (from health natura or from health natura in combination with tocovit: this is due to the gamma:alpha ratio), energin, vit c from dried camu camu or acerola cherry. The methylene blue and cypro are your call, I havent used them.
Hope this helps, just a few things to try for yourself if your interested that worked for me.

 

[meatbag]

thanks mate,
What are your thoughts on using thyroid or pregnenolone instead, as I have a safe preg source and not progesterone or dhea

Yeah I think it would be helpful to consider exploring thyroid. Have you checked out Danny Roddy's stuff on hair and Peat's interviews on thyroid? Also the email advice depository on here is pretty helpful.
http://www.dannyroddy.com/

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/

Also I would really check out the interviews with Peat before using the vitamin C supplements and also I second the recommendation to use the temperature and pulse rate;
http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2012/03/25/ray-peat-phd-on-thyroid-temperature-pulse-and-tsh/
Also since you said you dont have much budget for blood tests maybe you could try the achilles reflex test which Peat has just mentioned in interviews and in email correspondence.
http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2011/12/05/achilles-tendon-reflex/

 

[franc0]

Yeah I think it would be helpful to consider exploring thyroid. Have you checked out Danny Roddy's stuff on hair and Peat's interviews on thyroid? Also the email advice depository on here is pretty helpful.
http://www.dannyroddy.com/

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/ray-peat-email-advice-depository.1035/

Yea I've been using tyromix for I'd say a month or two, I have bout 1 to 2 drops a day on my tongue, sometimes topically on my temples.
I've watched all of Danny Roddy's videos on hair as well.

 

[meatbag]

Yea I've been using tyromix for I'd say a month or two, I have bout 1 to 2 drops a day on my tongue, sometimes topically on my temples.
I've watched all of Danny Roddy's videos on hair as well.

My experience is that t3 can work topically but it is probably a good idea to eat the t4 so that is digested and goes to the liver where it can be converted and that's how Ray Peat has recommended to use it as well.. I haven't noticed anything from using T4 topically but t3 in dmso did effect my pulse and temps in a positive way. That may not be enough thyroid and if a persons using thyroid its a good idea to track changes in the temperature and pulse rate. You can find charts online

 

[franc0]

My experience is that t3 can work topically but it is probably a good idea to eat the t4 so that is digested and goes to the liver where it can be converted. That may not be enough thyroid and if a persons using thyroid its a good idea to track changes in the temperature and pulse rate. You can find charts online

cheers mate,
I'm a little apprehensive bout using larger doses of thyroid cos I've read ppl on the forum having adverse reactions from too much.

 

[meatbag]

t

cheers mate,
I'm a little apprehensive bout using larger doses of thyroid cos I've read ppl on the forum having adverse reactions from too much.

Yeah its definitely good to be cautious and I wish I had been more so when I first started trying things. I just think its hard to know how much to use if your not tracking outcomes from a given dose especially given the stress of school etc, but yeah I'm in a similar boat and can definitely relate. Good luck with everything

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I socialise in the kitchen with my flatmates everyday, and do little bits of work throughout the day, I play guitar for at least half an hour. A snack would be a cheese, salami/ham and spinach tortilla
Standard dinner for me would look like sausages with vegetables both cooked in coconut oil and herbs, or prawns and rice for example.

I would do a two day cleanse with a large dose of activated charcoal (10 tablespoons, blended in a gallon of water, drank through the 2 days as your primary liquid). In addition to this, consider supplementing bamboo extract (it's cheap and an abundant source of silica, it really works for speeding up hair growth). If you abuse booze, consider supplementing around the party days with NAC, extra salt, and vit B1, and sticking to clear spirits. Perhaps your liver needs to heal.

Then I would cut out all preserved meats. This is totally just my unsubstantiated observation, but it always looks to me like the early hair loss crowd has a tendency to consume ample booze and to eat a lot of nitrite. If it is a matter of convenience: you can batch pre-cook fresh meat for the week, or cook once a month. Go for full cuts, not ground which is much higher in endotoxin. Eat liver and kidneys once a week.

 

[Vinero]

I would do a two day cleanse with a large dose of activated charcoal (10 tablespoons, blended in a gallon of water, drank through the 2 days as your primary liquid). In addition to this, consider supplementing bamboo extract (it's cheap and an abundant source of silica, it really works for speeding up hair growth). If you abuse booze, consider supplementing around the party days with NAC, extra salt, and vit B1, and sticking to clear spirits. Perhaps your liver needs to heal.

Then I would cut out all preserved meats. This is totally just my unsubstantiated observation, but it always looks to me like the early hair loss crowd has a tendency to consume ample booze and to eat a lot of nitrite. If it is a matter of convenience: you can batch pre-cook fresh meat for the week, or cook once a month. Go for full cuts, not ground which is much higher in endotoxin. Eat liver and kidneys once a week.

Does ground meat contain endotoxin? Did I read that right?
I sometimes eat ground beef and have noticed disturbed bowels after eating..

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Does ground meat contain endotoxin? Did I read that right?
I sometimes eat ground beef and have noticed disturbed bowels after eating..

Yes, it has been exposed to more air, has more surface area, been processed in sub-sterile conditions, and normally features older meat that has not moved off the shelves fast enough. I had a reference I was just reading yesterday, sorry cannot find it.

 

[theLaw]

Does ground meat contain endotoxin? Did I read that right?
I sometimes eat ground beef and have noticed disturbed bowels after eating..

Grass-fed ground beef is pretty tough, and a very different food than standard meat from the supermarket. It usually needs some sort of tenderizer (coke?).

I think that Peat mentioned that they inject something (gum?) into the meat to make it retain water, so that it increases the weight with less actual product.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

@franc0
2) i’d also try experimenting with losing the orange juice and replacing it with cane sugar soda. The oj in my experience makes me cold and brain foggy. Check this out:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4089052/

Interesting, if I got this right the dose of fresh oj they gave the rats was pretty small, in human equivalent even less than a full cup per day....

 

[tara]

I'm not saying you should only eat White rice, Meat, Milk, Coco-cola and coffee. But the OP is clearly stuck and in bad health even though he takes massive amounts of supplements and foods.

OK, good to clarify that wasn't what you meant.

Something isn't working for him. Who's healthier? Someone with zero health issues eating just those simple foods I mentioned? Or someone like the OP taking a ton of supplements and saying nothing works?

I agree something is amiss. (I'm not seeing the relevance of the comparison.)

The reason I mention those foods is because they are very safe and I have thrived a long time with greath health on those foods. In fact, that is the bulk of my diet right now. Most of my experiences with adding a lot of different supplements have been very poor. I am just sharing my experience.

That's great that they worked for you and seem to be safe for you. Good that you clarify that you are just talking about your own experience. That diet would not be safe for everyone (certainly not for me).

Your points about gut irritation from hard-to-digest foods and about contamination in supplements being potential impediments to healing are ones I'd expect Peat to agree with.

 

[Vinero]

OK, good to clarify that wasn't what you meant.

I agree something is amiss. (I'm not seeing the relevance of the comparison.)

That's great that they worked for you and seem to be safe for you. Good that you clarify that you are just talking about your own experience. That diet would not be safe for everyone (certainly not for me).

Your points about gut irritation from hard-to-digest foods and about contamination in supplements being potential impediments to healing are ones I'd expect Peat to agree with.

Which of the foods I mentioned would not agree with you? They are all very hypoallergenic. Except milk maybe, some people have difficulty digesting lactose.

 

[Jamo77]

@franc0

I am new to Peating. I experienced tremendous hair loss a few years back but it was halted by using regenpure shampoo and biotin conditioner which I use 3 times per week. The shampoo I use liberally on scalp and leave for 5-8 minutes before rinsing. It may be a bandaid solution but one that has been good. I should also point out at the same time I hit the Cutler protocol for mercury detox for 18 months which its proponents also say helps with hair loss. Out of curiosity have you had mercury exposure or any metal fillings drilled out recently?

 

[tara]

Which of the foods I mentioned would not agree with you? They are all very hypoallergenic. Except milk maybe, some people have difficulty digesting lactose.

Milk:
I personally don't get along with milk. Seems to be the response to proteins, not lactose, at play. (I've tried lots of variants.) This is me. But it seems there are a number of others for whom dairy is difficult, sometimes the lactose, sometimes maybe the protein. There are possible explanations for why (eg Travis and others have discussed issues related to casomorphins). I don't rule out milk as a good food for those that it suits - sounds as though it's working well for you, and there are some long-live milk-drinkers around. I just don't assume it's safe and good for everyone.

Coffee:
Seem to be hazardous to me after a few days, even if I only drink modest quantities of decaf.

Coca-cola:
Seems I can get away with a little refined sucrose in my diet, but not too much. My working assumption is that minerals have become too deleted, and if I overdo the refined sugars I displace more mineral rich foods sources of sugar/carbs. So I'd probably be fine with just a little coca cola in my day, but not as a significant contributor to my nutrition. (Also, my attempts to displace too much starchy foods with sweet ones always seem to hit a limit where I feel sick from eating too much sugar before I've eaten enough to feel satisfied or get sustained energy.
I've never experimented enough with coca cola to observe whether the caffeine affects me in ways similar to coffee.

Rice:
I do eat rice regularly, but only as a minority of my carbs. When I let it get too big a portion of my diet things feel off - again, I think it's short-changing me mineral-wise, compared with roots, veges, fruits. (Rice does not seem to be safe for everyone though - some people do seem to do better avoiding starchy foods.)

Restriction of fruits, roots, vegetables:
It is so limited that it could risk having difficulty sustainably meeting mineral needs, especially for someone needing extra for healing.

Perhaps some people (possibly including you) have robust mineral reserves, and therefore can go a long time before noticing any difficulties related to deficits.

Not saying the diet you posted mightn't work for some people. But they'd have to consider and observe, not assume it's all safe for everyone.

 

[EIRE24]

@franc0
I just made a post to another guy in university that has similar experiences as you. I also went through a similar journey with my health; generally accepted healthy, somewhat vegetarian, paleo, peat and now basically the whatever works for you diet. I can share a few things that helped me pretty significantly if your interested.

1) for me dropping all dairy was a huge improvement because the opiate effect was too pronounced leading to decreased dopamine and thus increased prolactin (gyno, weight gain), decreased motivation, decreased sex drive and constipation. Something interesting to keep in mind is I’m also genetically lactose tolerant, so you’d think I’d be able to drink milk... I’d replace the milk with fatty cuts of red meat and organs, coconout oil, beef tallow and cocoa butter or chocolate. I’d make sure to eat another type of fat besides coconut oil, coconut oil is mostly medium chain tryglycerides, its helpful to have some long chain fatty acids to stimulate the gallbladder/ liver, beef fat and chocolate work well.

2) i’d also try experimenting with losing the orange juice and replacing it with cane sugar soda. The oj in my experience makes me cold and brain foggy. Check this out:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4089052/

3) if i was going to eat the bananas I’d probably cook them with some cocoa butter or butter, and sugar.

4) the eggs are ok, they might have a decent amount of PUFA, but if you like them and/or theyre from a good source then thats your call. The chicken I’d make sure is the breast with as little fat as possible, just becuase most of the fat is PUFA.

5) I’d add some carrots and I’d keep the leafy greens to make up some of what you lost with the milk. The carrot fiber does work pretty well over time.

6) I’d stay away from starch for the most part, atleast until your digest is much improved.

7) If you’ve always drunken coffee and had no issue with it then I’d say keep
It but if you just added it in because peat uses it, I’d go for a period without it, find your baseline and then add it back in once your stable overall.

8) I’d try to stick to three square meals a day and limit the snacking to give your body time to digest. I’d space the meals 4 hours between to allow the migrating motor complex to complete a cycle and enhance your digestion overall.

9) I’d try to eat .6g/lb of fat per day minimum to start and adjust from there. .6g/lb of protein and atleast 200g of carb minimum to start. You can always adjust up or down if u need. But for carbs i’d try to stay there for a minimum. You can use cronometer to track for this.

For supps I’d stick with vit k2-mk4, vit D3, vit E (from health natura or from health natura in combination with tocovit: this is due to the gamma:alpha ratio), energin, vit c from dried camu camu or acerola cherry. The methylene blue and cypro are your call, I havent used them.
Hope this helps, just a few things to try for yourself if your interested that worked for me.

Do you think cooked carrots would have the same outcome as raw or would the cooked just be easier for bacteria to ferment?

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Buy:
https://redlightman.com/product/infrared-mini-830/
And:
https://www.amazon.com/ABI-Booster-Flowering-Spectrum-Enhancement/dp/B01H2Y5U4M

Use on your scalp at a distance of ~4 inches for 15 minutes (one in the morning, the other in the evening). Should help slow it down for now.

 

[CLASH]

I think raw carrots are better than cooked from the intestinal perspective. The cooked are more digested by us.