Your not making any point clear and have not done so In this thread in relation to the title ,I have been clear and giving you reasonable responses but now you insist on creating a strawman and the last 2 responses contain passive aggressive ad hominem.
The title of the thread you created is,"NICOTINE THROUGH A PEAT PRISM", in your first post you posit nicotine to have similar effect to caffeine, THIS IS WELL KNOWN BY MANY ON THE FORUM.
What is also well known is he CURRENTLY does not recommend it ahead of other adaptive substance, you have the quote from an email response.
I have said repeatedly that many substances that increase metabolism can be seen to be acting similarly, I don't refuse to see this, you refuse to see that I do see it.
Earlier in this thread you claim there is not a lot of research on isolated nicotine use, now you say there is lots of clinical trials on nicotine use.
You say no trials yet in non smokers show addiction yet you admit nicotine can cause dependence withdrawal....... I will take a wild guess and say trials will show addiction based on socioeconomic status,current diet,metabolism.
Nitroglycerine is a typo but you mock instead of asking about the use of glycerine in e cigarettes. I'm on a phone.
"I'm ignoring this because I don't care" , you say this in relation to anecdotal evidence of the forum about nausea and stomach upset caused by small amounts of nicotine gum?? This is one of the many advantages of the forum.
You then say,"people would smoke for Mao inhibition alone", this is your own opinion,a form of anecdotal evidence,clearly it's ok for you but not for others.
Ray Peat puts HDAC inhibitions into context, mild hdac inhibition is adaptive. Allows gene expression,allows the organism to function,adapt better,this feels good,too much is not good,balance.
In certain contexts like cancer ,more potent hdac inhibitor like vorinostat is helpful and is have seemingly positive effects.
phenibut,valrian,nicotine are stronger inhibitors ,niacinamide and some other Peat recommended are mild .
Cocaine acts as demthylating agent not as a hdac inhibitor ,co2 helps demethylate, glucose fuelled metabolism does the same.
cocaine one is too strong and can have side effects. The overall outcome of demethylating and hdac inhibition is SIMILAR but not the same, you have also quoted a study that nicotine use will increase the likelihood of cocaine addiction.
Food is having these effects,COFFEE! as do hormones. All the substances mentioned have other effects also ,valerian is tougher on the liver for example.
This above partially explains withdrawals because all the substances have a spring back effect, spring back effects are not nice, check the forum for threads on phenibut, I believe benzodiazepines might act like a potent hdac inhibitor, withdrawals from benzos is not nice.
You claim to understand the big picture, perhaps putting the word "trying" in that sentence would be better, you don't understand the big picture,non of us here do.
Studies are not facts particularly when it comes to a substance like nicotine that is hugely profitable even in e cigarettes,it's also addictive which makes it the perfect money making product.
I'm not missing the point of your posts,you are not comparing nicotine to caffeine with a thread titled ,"NICOTINE THROUGH A PEAT PRISM".
coffee/caffeine is consumed like food every few hours depending on your metabolism, like many people who have just one coffee a day don't need more as time passes, if you have one nicotine hit a day,the demand for this will increase as time passes to the point where you need a hit every hour to function,just like cocaine or phenibut the dose needs increasing,nature gives no magic bullet.
Stress levels ,socio economic status all relevant and will make things worse .
I'm sure Peat is putting nicotine through his own prism for years now yet still does not recommend nicotine over other adaptive less addictive substance.
Your beginning to sound like a politican with your responses, "intelligent rebuttal" , give you ,"good evidence", this all been given, how about you stop ignoring that RAY PEAT DOES NOT CURRENTLY RECOMMEND NICOTINE over other safer adaptive substance.
Here are some cherry picked studies showing increases in nitric oxide, there are loads more to be cherry picked.
A study showing nicotine effecting pregnancy negatively .
Chronic Nicotine Exposure Abolishes Maternal Systemic and Renal Adaptations to Pregnancy in Rats. - PubMed - NCBI
A study showing negative effects of nicotine treated rats,one of the groups were nicotine only. Decreased gluthatione,decreased SOD, increased nitric oxide and more.
Investigation of the protective effect of ellagic acid for preventing kidney injury in rats exposed to nicotine during the fetal period. - PubMed - NCBI
This shows the nicotine only group had an increase in nitric oxide,liver effected also it claims.
Protective Role of Crocin Against Nicotine-induced Damages on Male Mice Liver. - PubMed - NCBI
Interesting effect involving nicotine on nitric oxide.
Striatal NOS1 has dimorphic expression and activity under stress and nicotine sensitization. - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotine increases nitric oxide in males,causes weight gain in males.
Effects of chronic nicotine administration on body weight, food intake and nitric oxide concentration in female and male rats. - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotine significantly increased nitric oxide in one group.
Role of vitamin C and selenium in attenuation of nicotine induced oxidative stress, P53 and Bcl2 expression in adult rat spleen. - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotine causes increased insulin sensitivity with prolonged use, decreases sensitivity with short term use. Dual opposing roles.
Nicotinic acetylcholine receptors in glucose homeostasis: the acute hyperglycemic and chronic insulin-sensitive effects of nicotine suggest dual op... - PubMed - NCBI
Nicotine exposure in adolescence regardless of amount consumed results in increased nitric oxide activity in frontal cortex of rats, which persists through adulthood.
Brain nitric oxide metabolites in rats preselected for nicotine preference and intake. - PubMed - NCBI
Prenatal nicotine exposure,negative effects.
Angiotensin II-mediated vascular changes in aged offspring rats exposed to perinatal nicotine. - PubMed - NCBI
This is a great study showing nicotines paradoxical effects mainly on nitric oxide, at times nitric oxide is alleviating anxiety, Peats recent newsletter was called,Procrustean adaptogen -nitric oxide.
http://www.iricss.org/fa/Documents/Articles-91-92/91-19.pdf
Increasing nitric oxide,angiogenesis.
Nicotine and pathological angiogenesis. - PubMed - NCBI
1. I don't care what Peat recommends I can form my own opinions.
2. Peat has never advised specifically to avoid nicotine like he advises about PUFA.
3. Peat has recommended nicotine in some instances.
4. Your first study shows a decrease in nitric oxide activity which contradicts all the rest of the studies you posted. The rats were also force fed nicotine which isn't fair. I presented studies that show decreased self administration of nicotine during pregnancy. Given the choice then these rats probaly wouldn't take the same doses forced on them.
5. Most of the rest of your studies show acute nicotine increases nitric oxide... I agree with this and I have gone over this. There is a big difference between acute and chronic usage.
6. I already discussed nicotines role in angiogenesis and metastasis earlier in the thread.
7. People getting a stomache ache from nicotine gum doesn't concern me in the slightest.
8. I'm sorry if you feel i'm mocking you
9. If I at any point said that there aren't many trials on nicotine then I will admit I was mistaken
10. How do you know niacinamide is a mild inhibitor of HDAC and nicotine is a strong inhibitor out of curiosity? One of the studies I posted on nicotine show only 28% inhibiton of HDAC which doesn't seem massive. I haven't found any studies that say exactly the % inhibition from niacinamide if you can post them that'd be great. I don't claim to be an expert on HDAC I know little about it because I haven't really looked into it.
11.
Fair enough but I stand by my arguement that some people would still smoke cigarettes if they contained no nicotine. You claimed the contrary and can't prove it either. Again I will state that people drink decaf even though it contains no caffeine.You then say,"people would smoke for Mao inhibition alone", this is your own opinion,a form of anecdotal evidence,clearly it's ok for you but not for others.
12. My statement that there are no nicotine dependency studies done on non-smokers is not wrong.
13. Earlier in the thread you said:
I got the impression that you have used nicotine before based on this post as you are claiming to have experienced its "nootropic effects"... thats why I accused you of being an ex smoker and harbouring bias.Nicotine does not compare in nootropic effects to pregnenlone,b1 ,t3 ,niacinamide or theanine IMO. You don't need this stuff every 2 hours, once adjusted to t3 you can take it with meals.
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