Nicotine Is An Anti-Depressant And Reverses Learned Helplessness

ATP

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A few days ago I finally decided to try nicotine. I purchased nicotine 2mg nicotine lozenges. I had one lozenge around midday and within about 20 minutes I started noticing the effects and was pleasantly surprised, the veil of fog that I had been experiencing for years had started to lift, colors seemed a little brighter, I seemed more articulate, increased motivation, much more energy, the list goes on. Nothing I have ever taken has came close in recent years to the positive effects I experienced from nicotine. The improvements started to lessen about 4 hours later but a mild improvement stayed for the rest of the day.

This is the third day that I have used nicotine and I haven't experienced any negative side effects and the positive seems about the same, with no change in anxiety that I already experience.
 

Energizer

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Nicotine by itself I think is a lot less useful in terms of nootropic effects than smoking the entire tobacco leaf. Smoking delivers the nicotine in a controlled fashion that is much harder to overdose on and provides an avenue for hormesis whereas pure nicotine seems to invoke more of a stress response based on my experience, though it can certainly be mitigated by keeping blood sugar stable. The tobacco plant has thousands of compounds besides nicotine, many of which provide more of a synergistic effect than nicotine alone can offer, so using pure nicotine instead of pure tobacco is a bit like using isolated caffeine powder instead of just drinking coffee.
 

DaveFoster

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Nicotine by itself I think is a lot less useful in terms of nootropic effects than smoking the entire tobacco leaf. Smoking delivers the nicotine in a controlled fashion that is much harder to overdose on and provides an avenue for hormesis whereas pure nicotine seems to invoke more of a stress response based on my experience, though it can certainly be mitigated by keeping blood sugar stable. The tobacco plant has thousands of compounds besides nicotine, many of which provide more of a synergistic effect than nicotine alone can offer, so using pure nicotine instead of pure tobacco is a bit like using isolated caffeine powder instead of just drinking coffee.
Tobacco also has other carcinogens, as well as harmala alkaloids that inhibit MAO-B and probably extend lifespan. High doses of nicotine tend to upregulate the pituitary. On its own nicotine has mixed effects, as it tends to put stress on the cardiovascular system and inhibits collagen synthesis, but it also acts on UCP-1 and uncouples mitochondria.
 

Filip1993

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Nicotine by itself I think is a lot less useful in terms of nootropic effects than smoking the entire tobacco leaf. Smoking delivers the nicotine in a controlled fashion that is much harder to overdose on and provides an avenue for hormesis whereas pure nicotine seems to invoke more of a stress response based on my experience, though it can certainly be mitigated by keeping blood sugar stable. The tobacco plant has thousands of compounds besides nicotine, many of which provide more of a synergistic effect than nicotine alone can offer, so using pure nicotine instead of pure tobacco is a bit like using isolated caffeine powder instead of just drinking coffee.

100% agree. I've tried isolated nicotine and caffeine a couple of times, never felt good. Coffee and tobacco on the other hand, very positive results. Trying to quit smoking and just using coffee, pretty hard to stop though. Especially when I'm under a lot of stress.
 

Energizer

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Tobacco also has other carcinogens, as well as harmala alkaloids that inhibit MAO-B and probably extend lifespan. High doses of nicotine tend to upregulate the pituitary. On its own nicotine has mixed effects, as it tends to put stress on the cardiovascular system and inhibits collagen synthesis, but it also acts on UCP-1 and uncouples mitochondria.

The evidence seems ambiguous to me. There are statistical associations with tobacco and lung cancer, for example, but the animal research seems completely different. For example the user nightlight on longecity points out the animals given near asphyxiation levels of tobacco smoke live longer and are thinner and sharper. Seems like if tobacco was more harmful there would be more robust research of it killing off animals via massive cancer rates instead of making them sharper and live longer. http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/61248-the-intelligent-smoker-what-should-a-smoker-take-to-nullify-harm/#entry564686

Seems like a paradox, smoking contains carcinogens, yet it extends lifespan in animals... raises youth associated hormones in humans, lowers estrogen, lowers risk of dementia, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's... I find it hard to believe it's as harmful as people often claim. I could be wrong, but it looks like tobacco been the subject of advanced cultural brainwashing rather than measured science. Wouldn't be the first time nearly everyone has jumped on the bandwagon. And now more than ever there is incentive for there to be a bandwagon, since some of the therapeutic effects of tobacco are competitive with common drug therapies (antidepressants, antipsychotics). I used to be against smoking but I think I was just parroting conditioning. When I first read that thread on longecity it lead to me questioning and doing research on antismoking science. further investigation lead me to doubt my own former antismoking views.
 
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Energizer

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100% agree. I've tried isolated nicotine and caffeine a couple of times, never felt good. Coffee and tobacco on the other hand, very positive results. Trying to quit smoking and just using coffee, pretty hard to stop though. Especially when I'm under a lot of stress.

Do you have good thyroid function? Only reason I ask is because smokers are often hypothyroid and self-medicate because smoking increases T3 and lowers TSH and usually have stronger dependencies on cigarettes than someone in good health. I believe Broda Barnes mentioned he never met a smoker or alcoholic that wasn't hypothyroid. I can relate to the cigarette cravings during times of stress, the one thing that reduced them was supplementing thyroid in my case (hypothyroidism runs in my family).
 

Filip1993

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I don't think my thyroid function is optimal, TSH 1,7 last time I checked (while smoking). Still struggling with low energy, depression, anxiety and acne from time to time. But most of the time I feel pretty good and cigarettes definitely helps. Have been eating pretty bad lately, need to clean up my diet.
 

denise

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100% agree. I've tried isolated nicotine and caffeine a couple of times, never felt good. Coffee and tobacco on the other hand, very positive results. Trying to quit smoking and just using coffee, pretty hard to stop though. Especially when I'm under a lot of stress.
Then don't quit! I made the mistake of quitting when I was mentally ready rather than when I was physically ready, and I'm still trying to recover. (Did you by chance see this post I wrote last fall?)

If you want to be able to quit without repercussions, do as Energizer suggested and get your thyroid (and other hormones) in order first. Then, read the Alan Carr book I mentioned in that post I linked to, and it'll be easy peasy.

I actually started smoking again last September, and I found that it can completely replace my thyroid meds. I'd like to not be a habitual smoker (mostly because it would be easier on me financially and socially), but I won't quit again until my body's ready for it.
 

Filip1993

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Then don't quit! I made the mistake of quitting when I was mentally ready rather than when I was physically ready, and I'm still trying to recover. (Did you by chance see this post I wrote last fall?)

If you want to be able to quit without repercussions, do as Energizer suggested and get your thyroid (and other hormones) in order first. Then, read the Alan Carr book I mentioned in that post I linked to, and it'll be easy peasy.

I actually started smoking again last September, and I found that it can completely replace my thyroid meds. I'd like to not be a habitual smoker (mostly because it would be easier on me financially and socially), but I won't quit again until my body's ready for it.

Yes, I've seen that post. I'm not ready to quit right now. But as you said, in the long run I prefer not to be a regular smoker.
 
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Nicotine might just be the real deal. I'm surprised Peat isn't far more in favor of it. I could see him coming around in in the coming years in the same way he did with mushrooms.
 

DaveFoster

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The evidence seems ambiguous to me. There are statistical associations with tobacco and lung cancer, for example, but the animal research seems completely different. For example the user nightlight on longecity points out the animals given near asphyxiation levels of tobacco smoke live longer and are thinner and sharper. Seems like if tobacco was more harmful there would be more robust research of it killing off animals via massive cancer rates instead of making them sharper and live longer. http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/61248-the-intelligent-smoker-what-should-a-smoker-take-to-nullify-harm/#entry564686

Seems like a paradox, smoking contains carcinogens, yet it extends lifespan in animals... raises youth associated hormones in humans, lowers estrogen, lowers risk of dementia, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's... I find it hard to believe it's as harmful as people often claim. I could be wrong, but it looks like tobacco been the subject of advanced cultural brainwashing rather than measured science. Wouldn't be the first time nearly everyone has jumped on the bandwagon. And now more than ever there is incentive for there to be a bandwagon, since some of the therapeutic effects of tobacco are competitive with common drug therapies (antidepressants, antipsychotics). I used to be against smoking but I think I was just parroting conditioning. When I first read that thread on longecity it lead to me questioning and doing research on antismoking science. further investigation lead me to doubt my own former antismoking views.
Edward J. Edmunds (and others) touches upon the propellants and other additives in cigarettes as contributing factors to the negative effects on the respiratory tract; if those rats were given non-tobacco smoke, they probably would suffer negative effects. It's not to say smoke is beneficial, but that tobacco smoke may well have a net benefit in some individuals.

Beta carotene also increases oxidative stress while smoking; the average American or Westerner does not avoid beta carotene to my knowledge. It's likely that the concentrated PUFA in the Western (particularly American diet) results in a far more harmful effect from nicotine's effect of raising free fatty acids. PUFA consumption, along with other unaccounted factors (iron overload as a hypothetical example) could worsen the oxidative stress caused by CO.
 

Filip1993

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Okay thanks! It seemed like they thought it did raise NO. The 2 things apparently wrong with smoking are increased CO and increased NO. I would think the CO would depend on the actual smoke?
I'm not sure. I can only speak from personal experience, coffe/caffeine seems like a much better/safer option. 3-5 ciggarettes (smoke 0,3 mg nicotine ciggs) seems to be the sweet spot for me, more and I lean towards anxiety and stress. It definitely has some positive effects which helps me in the short term, especially concentration when I'm studying.
 

Antonello

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What is a "coherent substance" and why is nicotine not one? Nicotine raises dopamine, lowers estrogen, lowers serotonin, lowers prolactin, raises progesterone and pregnenolone, reverses learned helplessness, increases cognitive function etc... Sure it can be harmful just like caffeine can be harmful- raise stress, elevate FFA etc... this only happens in a particular context such as low blood sugar. In general I would consider nicotine potentially just as useful if not more useful than caffeine in certain contexts.
Nicotine has been a game changer for me, completely stop my withdrawal from antiserotonin drugs, stopped my diarrhea, fixed my digestion, increase mood, focus and energy through the day. Only downside is a bit of restless at night but If I stay under 5 cigarettes a day sleep is not affected.
Coffee on the other hand only increase stress hormones.
 
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Dopamine

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A few years down the road now and as an update I will say that I wish I could delete these nicotine posts and threads. I think there are better ways of reducing learned helplessness such as through exercise.

"Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain"
This is a great book for learning about how exercise can benefit depression and learned helplessness among other things.


It is disturbing to me that many people are using these nicotine posts to justify smoking tobacco which is proven highly carcinogenic and addictive.

Use at your own risk I guess...
 
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Jib

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A few years down the road now and as an update I will say that I wish I could delete these nicotine posts and threads. I think there are better ways of reducing learned helplessness such as through exercise.

"Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain"
This is a great book for learning about how exercise can benefit depression and learned helplessness among other things.


It is disturbing to me that many people are using these nicotine posts to justify smoking tobacco which is proven highly carcinogenic and addictive.

Use at your own risk I guess...

There's no denying, for me, that smoking gives me a horrible chronic cough and very obviously negatively affects my lungs and circulatory system as a whole.

It's slightly better by using a filter such as a Tar-Gard, which does trap a lot of tar.

I always advise people to use an additional filter if they smoke tobacco. For a long time I wouldn't smoke at all if I didn't have one on me, and it did work. At the very least it may help minimize some of the damage while retaining some of the positive benefits. It's hard to continue smoking after you use a Tar-Gard and see how much gunk builds up in there after even a single cigarette.

I still smoke, but only very occasionally, and only whole leaf tobacco that I shred and blend myself. I had one yesterday morning and it had been at least 3 months since I had one before that. But I want one again tonight. Any time I have one, I want another, like with any other addictive drug.

I do seem to get a lot of mental and emotional benefits, and even some physical, from smoking, but it always comes at the cost of coughing and shortness of breath. I would agree: use at your own risk. I advise whole leaf tobacco as it's cheaper, and takes much, much longer to process and make into your own cigarettes, so you are much more prone to smoke only occasionally and forego it more readily. Buying packs is just way too easy and I myself would likely be killing an entire pack right now if I had bought one. Keeping it only to whole leaf, home-processed tobacco is a major factor that led to me cutting way, way back on my smoking.

It does help with stress and thinking but I do believe there is a price to pay. That's up to each individual to monitor and regulate for himself.
 

Beefcake

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Yes somewhat. I only used it occasionally or during emergencies, maybe once per week or less. There definitely is a crash the day after using it, with a bit of anxiety and depression. But still, it's safer than many other drugs people do.


Nicotine can't be compared with cocaine, since it's much weaker. But even cocaine may have some merit, since it raises progesterone levels:

"Female Fischer rats injected with cocaine in a "binge" pattern (15 mg/kg, IP, three times a day, at 1-h intervals) for 1 day had significantly higher levels of progesterone than saline-treated controls (p < 0.001)."
Cocaine affects progesterone plasma levels in female rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Of course you can compare nicotine and cocaine. Nicotine is much stronger then cocaine. If you took tobacoo leaves and extracted 100% pure nicotine and took it even close to the same dose as cocaine you would die. Cocaine is before cut 100% pure of the substance from the leaves of the plant. Unlike tobacoo. Chewing coca leaves like your supposed to I think cocaine could be less addictive than nicotine. Its just that the drug market dont want to sell something that is not highly addictive. Its like saying DMT is stronger than LSD. Well the effects are stronger but LSD in the same dose as DMT or any other psychedelic drug would likely kill you. And I bet if you took higher dose of LSD you would get more tripped out than on DMT.
 

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