Nicotine [Through A Peat Prism?]

Travis

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I can chime in and say eye colour is definitely related to neurotransmitters, norephiprene being hazel, dopamine and serotonin being blue.

Any play between colours is from my perspective showing your neurotransmitter ratio.

I was just reading about that. You are onto something.

Some pigments, like melanin, are actually polymerized indoles made from dopachrome and adrenochrome (and perhaps others), metabolites of adrenaline and dopamine.

Not many people realize how closely adrenaline and dopamine can become indoles; a non-intuitive ring condensation occurs:


adrenochrome.png


Adrenochrome is red in color. Dopachrome and adrenochrome polymerize together forming pigments. Below is melanin.

220px-Eumelanine.svg.png


Addison's Disease is characterized by both an adrenal malfunction and a pigmentation disorder of the skin. Schizophrenics are thought by Dr. Osmond and Dr. Hoffer to have a difficult time reducing adrenochrome to leuco-adrenochrome (colorless). An excess of adrenochrome is thought to produce the very effects of schizophrenia. Schizophrenics maintain colored hair for longer than controls, and injections of adreochrome have been shown to produce a "freckle" at the injection site, showing that catecholamines have an effect on pigmentation through their subsequent formation of indoles.

You might expect the color of the pigments to change with variations in the types of indoles present, be they seratonin, melatonin, adrenochrome, or dopachrome.

Another metabolite of adrenaline is adrenolutin, which is green.

Read all about Dr. Hoffer and Dr. Osmond's experiments with adrenochrome and adrenolutin here: THE HALLUCINOGENS [p.275−441]

schizo.png
 

ilikecats

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@DaveFoster I remember reading that and experimenting with that method. No offense but I think both you and the poster on reddit are just experiencing the placebo effect. I worked up to massive doses topically and felt absolutely nothing.
 

ilikecats

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I was using custom e juices with just nicotine and VG and I also experimented with varying amounts of propylene glycol added to the mix to increase topically. Ive been experimenting with nicotine for the last year. Snus, Patches, and gum. Finally stopped just recently and it made a big improvement in my health.
 

DaveFoster

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I was using custom e juices with just nicotine and VG and I also experimented with varying amounts of propylene glycol added to the mix to increase topically. Ive been experimenting with nicotine for the last year. Snus, Patches, and gum. Finally stopped just recently and it made a big improvement in my health.
This is a short-term experiment to get through a stressful period while working on the thyroid. I highly doubt it's placebo, but the cholinergic effect worries me a bit.

How has your health improved since stopping?
 
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Jsaute21

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Does anybody have a source of additive free nicotine? Would like to incorporate it into my pre workout routine. All of the gums have a lot of questionable fillers such as nicorette, etc.
 

TubZy

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This is a short-term experiment to get through a stressful period while working on the thyroid. I highly doubt it's placebo, but the cholinergic effect worries me a bit.

How has your health improved since stopping?

Dave, besides caffeine, what else have you found to be a good stack with nicotine? Any co-factors in terms of nutrients/minerals that can prevent the stress response or enhance the effectiveness of nicotine (or better yet any idea what nutrients nicotine can deplete)? From another post I think it was @tyw said to use plenty of methylation supps with it (managese, zinc etc.) for protection.

I know exactly what you are talking about the burning throat from the gum, that seems to be the only downside of the gum. I have used high doses before (over 4mg) and not every time but sometimes I get muscle twitches (mag deficiency?), but it is pretty effective

About 70% of my friends use some form of tobacco/nicotine mainly snus.
 

DaveFoster

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Dave, besides caffeine, what else have you found to be a good stack with nicotine? Any co-factors in terms of nutrients/minerals that can prevent the stress response or enhance the effectiveness of nicotine (or better yet any idea what nutrients nicotine can deplete)? From another post I think it was @tyw said to use plenty of methylation supps with it (managese, zinc etc.) for protection.

I know exactly what you are talking about the burning throat from the gum, that seems to be the only downside of the gum. I have used high doses before (over 4mg) and not every time but sometimes I get muscle twitches (mag deficiency?), but it is pretty effective

About 70% of my friends use some form of tobacco/nicotine mainly snus.
I only use nicotine very rarely (a handful of times every year), but Edward J. Edmonds talks quite a bit about it on his blog, Coffee, Chocolate, and Cigarettes.

Aspirin and niacinamide could be beneficial at attenuating the rise in free fatty acids, and chronic nicotine consumption probably pays off here as well. Niacinamide also acts as a TLR-4 antagonist, and should synergize with nicotine's protection against LPS (lipopolysaccharides). Keeping the intestine clean could probably reduce the need for nicotine, and nicotine itself upregulates thermogenesis through UCP-1 (uncoupling protein 1), and T3 also works in that direction, increasing heat production and energy expenditure without depleting ATP (like caffeine for example).

Nicotine also heavily influences GABA, so using progesterone can achieve a similar effect, and it's been mentioned on the forum that DHT should be able to achieve a similar effect to nicotine. Using thyroid should optimize DHT production if the individual's 5-ar enzyme has not been downregulated from chronic stress. Too much nicotine should not be used, as it tends to upregulate the pituitary hormones through cholinergic mechanisms, and here again, aspirin should help as it tends to downregulate the pituitary, and aspirin should also offset some of the cardiovascular risks associated with nicotine. Smokers should never eat carrots or sweet potatoes due to the amplification of oxidative stress. Mr. Edmonds believes nicotine and high-fat diets to be synergistic in that they promote fatty acid oxidation, but the evidence points to some problems with the combination, so a high-carbohydrate diet would probably be protective, but centenarians tend to eat more fat anyway.

Nicotine in Combination With a High-Fat Diet Causes Intramyocellular Mitochondrial Abnormalities in Male Mice
 

TubZy

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I only use nicotine very rarely (a handful of times every year), but Edward J. Edmonds talks quite a bit about it on his blog, Coffee, Chocolate, and Cigarettes.

Aspirin and niacinamide could be beneficial at attenuating the rise in free fatty acids, and chronic nicotine consumption probably pays off here as well. Niacinamide also acts as a TLR-4 antagonist, and should synergize with nicotine's protection against LPS (lipopolysaccharides). Keeping the intestine clean could probably reduce the need for nicotine, and nicotine itself upregulates thermogenesis through UCP-1 (uncoupling protein 1), and T3 also works in that direction, increasing heat production and energy expenditure without depleting ATP (like caffeine for example).

Nicotine also heavily influences GABA, so using progesterone can achieve a similar effect, and it's been mentioned on the forum that DHT should be able to achieve a similar effect to nicotine. Using thyroid should optimize DHT production if the individual's 5-ar enzyme has not been downregulated from chronic stress. Too much nicotine should not be used, as it tends to upregulate the pituitary hormones through cholinergic mechanisms, and here again, aspirin should help as it tends to downregulate the pituitary, and aspirin should also offset some of the cardiovascular risks associated with nicotine. Smokers should never eat carrots or sweet potatoes due to the amplification of oxidative stress. Mr. Edmonds believes nicotine and high-fat diets to be synergistic in that they promote fatty acid oxidation, but the evidence points to some problems with the combination, so a high-carbohydrate diet would probably be protective, but centenarians tend to eat more fat anyway.

Nicotine in Combination With a High-Fat Diet Causes Intramyocellular Mitochondrial Abnormalities in Male Mice

Thanks, niacinamide is my go to for pretty much when I pair anything, sweet.

Also, do you have a study about nicotine raising pituitary hormones at high doses? Reason I ask is because @bloom has developed a theory around low pituitary hormones in regards to PFS so high doses of nicotine in that respect could be beneficial.
 

Regina

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I only use nicotine very rarely (a handful of times every year), but Edward J. Edmonds talks quite a bit about it on his blog, Coffee, Chocolate, and Cigarettes.

Aspirin and niacinamide could be beneficial at attenuating the rise in free fatty acids, and chronic nicotine consumption probably pays off here as well. Niacinamide also acts as a TLR-4 antagonist, and should synergize with nicotine's protection against LPS (lipopolysaccharides). Keeping the intestine clean could probably reduce the need for nicotine, and nicotine itself upregulates thermogenesis through UCP-1 (uncoupling protein 1), and T3 also works in that direction, increasing heat production and energy expenditure without depleting ATP (like caffeine for example).

Nicotine also heavily influences GABA, so using progesterone can achieve a similar effect, and it's been mentioned on the forum that DHT should be able to achieve a similar effect to nicotine. Using thyroid should optimize DHT production if the individual's 5-ar enzyme has not been downregulated from chronic stress. Too much nicotine should not be used, as it tends to upregulate the pituitary hormones through cholinergic mechanisms, and here again, aspirin should help as it tends to downregulate the pituitary, and aspirin should also offset some of the cardiovascular risks associated with nicotine. Smokers should never eat carrots or sweet potatoes due to the amplification of oxidative stress. Mr. Edmonds believes nicotine and high-fat diets to be synergistic in that they promote fatty acid oxidation, but the evidence points to some problems with the combination, so a high-carbohydrate diet would probably be protective, but centenarians tend to eat more fat anyway.

Nicotine in Combination With a High-Fat Diet Causes Intramyocellular Mitochondrial Abnormalities in Male Mice
"Smokers should never eat carrots or sweet potatoes due to the amplification of oxidative stress." :wtf
 

DaveFoster

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Thanks, niacinamide is my go to for pretty much when I pair anything, sweet.

Also, do you have a study about nicotine raising pituitary hormones at high doses? Reason I ask is because @bloom has developed a theory around low pituitary hormones in regards to PFS so high doses of nicotine in that respect could be beneficial.
Detailed Benefits of Tobacco - Ray Peat Q&A

It's Dewitt's words. The evidence says that chronic smokers' prolactin levels tend to decrease.

Smoking and hormones in health and endocrine disorders

This study shows that nicotine exaggerates the HPA axis' response to stress:

Repeated stress alters the ability of nicotine to activate the hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis - Lutfy - 2006 - Journal of Neurochemistry - Wiley Online Library

"Repeated exposure to stress increased the ability of nicotine to stimulate plasma ACTH (p < 0.05) and beta-END (p < 0.05), but not corticosterone secretion. In contrast, repeated exposure to stress increased the post-saline injection levels of corticosterone (p < 0.05), but not ACTH and beta-END. The present results suggest that chronic stress leads to an enhanced sensitivity of some components of the HPA axis to a subsequent nicotine challenge."

"Smokers should never eat carrots or sweet potatoes due to the amplification of oxidative stress." :wtf
Beta-carotene and lung cancer in smokers: review of hypotheses and status of research. - PubMed - NCBI

"There are a number of hypotheses concerning the beta-carotene/tobacco smoke interaction including alterations of retinoid metabolism and signaling pathways and interaction with CYP enzymes and pro-oxidation/DNA oxidation. The animal models consistently demonstrate negative effects only in the ferret, and following dosing with beta-carotene in corn oil at pharmacological dosages. No effects or even protective effects against smoke or carcinogen exposure were observed when beta-carotene was applied at physiological dosages or in combination with vitamins C and E, either as a mixture or in a stable formulation. In conclusion, human and animal studies have shown that specific circumstances, among them heavy smoking, seem to influence the effect of high beta-carotene intakes. In normal, healthy, nonsmoking populations, there is evidence of beneficial effects."

Beta-carotene in multivitamins and the possible risk of lung cancer among smokers versus former smokers: a meta-analysis and evaluation of national... - PubMed - NCBI

"High-dose beta-carotene supplementation appears to increase the risk of lung cancer among current smokers. Although beta-carotene was prevalent in multivitamins, high-dose beta-carotene was observed among multivitamin formulas sold to promote visual health."
 

Regina

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Detailed Benefits of Tobacco - Ray Peat Q&A

It's Dewitt's words. The evidence says that chronic smokers' prolactin levels tend to decrease.

Smoking and hormones in health and endocrine disorders

This study shows that nicotine exaggerates the HPA axis' response to stress:

Repeated stress alters the ability of nicotine to activate the hypothalamic–pituitary–adrenal axis - Lutfy - 2006 - Journal of Neurochemistry - Wiley Online Library

"Repeated exposure to stress increased the ability of nicotine to stimulate plasma ACTH (p < 0.05) and beta-END (p < 0.05), but not corticosterone secretion. In contrast, repeated exposure to stress increased the post-saline injection levels of corticosterone (p < 0.05), but not ACTH and beta-END. The present results suggest that chronic stress leads to an enhanced sensitivity of some components of the HPA axis to a subsequent nicotine challenge."

Beta-carotene and lung cancer in smokers: review of hypotheses and status of research. - PubMed - NCBI

"There are a number of hypotheses concerning the beta-carotene/tobacco smoke interaction including alterations of retinoid metabolism and signaling pathways and interaction with CYP enzymes and pro-oxidation/DNA oxidation. The animal models consistently demonstrate negative effects only in the ferret, and following dosing with beta-carotene in corn oil at pharmacological dosages. No effects or even protective effects against smoke or carcinogen exposure were observed when beta-carotene was applied at physiological dosages or in combination with vitamins C and E, either as a mixture or in a stable formulation. In conclusion, human and animal studies have shown that specific circumstances, among them heavy smoking, seem to influence the effect of high beta-carotene intakes. In normal, healthy, nonsmoking populations, there is evidence of beneficial effects."

Beta-carotene in multivitamins and the possible risk of lung cancer among smokers versus former smokers: a meta-analysis and evaluation of national... - PubMed - NCBI

"High-dose beta-carotene supplementation appears to increase the risk of lung cancer among current smokers. Although beta-carotene was prevalent in multivitamins, high-dose beta-carotene was observed among multivitamin formulas sold to promote visual health."
:bucktooth: phew thx
 

Travis

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That was originally a finding of a very large trial on antioxidants. They found that vitamin E supplementation (α-tocopherol) slightly decreased cancer but that β-carotene slightly raised the incidence. As an antioxidant, you would expect β-carotene to lower cancer incidence.

I think this can only be explained by the cleavage of β-carotene into retinol and subsequent retinoid acid formation. The epithelial cells respond strongly to vitamin A. I did see a skin-turnover study that used the disappearance of dye as an indicator which showed almost double the normal skin turnover rate with retinoic acid.

This is why I think vitamin A is one of the most dangerous vitamins (iron too). It is powerful and seems to have a low margin of error. The people in the trial were getting β-carotene on top of whatever they were eating, and it was probably a good deal of retinol.

The rate of cell division seems to be associated with some cancer types.
 

ilikecats

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@DaveFoster didnt Edward say that he thinks the main benefit of nicotine is probably that it protects from glucose toxicity? :/ lol it's hard for me to take him seriously sometimes especially since he's added in a lot of carbs recently. Mostly ones that contain gluten... it's like if Peat said "I'm starting to supplement with some fish oil every morning"
 

ilikecats

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He also said that he was going to rewrite most of his old posts to include his current theories about Carbs not being so bad... he never did that.
 

ilikecats

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He's obviously a very intelligent dude but most of his posts recently have thrown science out the window and he just waxes poetic about nutrition
 

DaveFoster

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@DaveFoster didnt Edward say that he thinks the main benefit of nicotine is probably that it protects from glucose toxicity? :/ lol it's hard for me to take him seriously sometimes especially since he's added in a lot of carbs recently. Mostly ones that contain gluten... it's like if Peat said "I'm starting to supplement with some fish oil every morning"
Specific complex 1 inhibition seems to lower ROS, and niacinamide may have overlapping effects with nicotine in this regard.

In vitro effects of nicotine on mitochondrial respiration and superoxide anion generation. - PubMed - NCBI

"In this study, we investigated the effects of nicotine on rat brain mitochondria. The polarographic studies determined the effects on the respiratory chain, whereas enzymatic assays and [3H]-nicotine binding allowed us to precisely identify its target and site of action. The measurements of oxygen consumption showed a significantly concentration-dependent inhibition by nicotine (EC50 was 4.95x10(-11) M), and a maximal decrease of 23.90% at 10(-7) M. Nicotine bound to complex I of the respiratory chain and inhibited the NADH-Ubiquinone reductase activity. We also showed that nicotine and NADH were competitive on complex I. Effects of cotinine, the main nicotine metabolite, and nornicotine, were also investigated: nornicotine inhibited the mitochondrial respiration whereas cotinine did not. Because the complex I generates superoxide anion, we investigated the effects of nicotine, following NBT oxidation, and showed that nicotine was able to inhibit this reactive oxygen species (ROS) generation by 15.74% with an EC50 of 2.02x10(-11) M. In conclusion, the present study shows that nicotine interacts with the complex I of brain mitochondrial respiratory chain and decreases ROS generation. This may explain a part of the beneficial and protective effects of nicotine in few neurodegenerative diseases, as suggested by many epidemiological studies."

High doses of nicotinamide prevent oxidative mitochondrial dysfunction in a cellular model and improve motor deficit in a Drosophila model of Parki... - PubMed - NCBI

"Nicotinamide, the principal form of niacin (vitamin B3), has been proposed to be neuroprotective in Parkinson's disease. However, the effects and mechanisms of nicotinamide on motor function in animals and on mitochondrial function in cellular systems have not been well studied. We hypothesized that niacin-derived NAD(P)H as antioxidants and enzyme cofactors could inhibit oxidative damage and improve mitochondrial function and thus protect neurodegeneration and improve motor function. In the present study, the effects of nicotinamide on mitochondrial function and oxidative stress were studied in a 1-methyl-4-phenylpyridinium (MPP(+))-induced cellular model of Parkinson's disease, and the effects of improving motor dysfunction were studied in an alpha-synuclein transgenic Drosophila Parkinson's model. Mitochondrial function was tested by measuring the activity of mitochondrial complex I and alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase, and oxidative damage was tested by measuring reactive oxygen species, DNA damage (8-oxo-7,8-dihydro-2'-deoxyguanosine and Comet assay), and protein oxidation (protein carbonyls) levels. Nicotinamide at a relatively higher concentration, that is, 100-fold of the level in the cell culture medium (101 mg/L), significantly protected SK-N-MC human neuroblastoma cells from an MPP(+)-induced decrease in cell viability, complex I and alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase activity, and an increase in oxidant generation, DNA damage, and protein oxidation. In the Drosophila model, nicotinamide at 15 and 30 mg/100 g diet significantly improved climbing ability. These results suggest that nutritional supplementation of nicotinamide at high doses decreases oxidative stress and improves mitochondrial and motor function in cellular and/or Drosophila models and may be an effective strategy for preventing and ameliorating Parkinson's disease."
 

Jsaute21

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Thoughts on this product? I am a fan of nicotine, plain and simple. Have always felt positive effects from it. Chewing tobacco is disgusting and a bad habit (not judging as i used to partake quite a bit) while smoking has its own wide array of effects. Similar to @johnwester130 i am looking for a simple way to unlock nicotines health & metabolism boosting benefits without dealing with nasty fillers or inconvenient ways at consuming. Am interested at others thoughts on the below product or any other alternatives.

Best Damn Tobacco
 

raypeatclips

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To my tobacco friends...what are your thoughts on good e cigarettes? This article scared me a bit.

What's Inside E-Cigarette Juice: Alcohol, More Alcohol, and Lots of Secrets

I always think about what Ray said about pharmaceuticals when new health gadgets are released, it takes 20 years before we really know the effects of a newly introduced drug. I feel the same about vaping. I just can't see how inhaling artificial ingredients, flavours or colours is going to end well. I wouldn't be surprised if it causes some horrible lung condition a few years down the line but I could be very wrong and it's fine.

I witnessed one of my work mates who has been smoking 35 years and smokes around 20-30 a day take their first puff of a vape and they choked and spluttered and said at first he could barely breathe. For the rest of our shift I noticed him coughing every now and then. I wondered about what that meant about the safety of vaping in comparison to cigarettes. I am not sure what it means though. The next day at work he said he had a terrible headache all night when he got home and blamed it on the vape but it could have been from the coughing I suppose. I am not sure what this story is trying to convey but i just expected him to not react to a single vape puff in that way considering his history of habits.

I don't think regular smoking is safe either btw I'm not saying cigarettes are great.
 
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